Politics The COVID-19 pandemic news and discussion.

[PEMM]

Sort of, because if they are just wards, then either military 'temporary' buildings would suffice, or just take over a hotel etc, everything you need is there, ship in a few hundred nurses and off you go.

This could be 'make work' so we can all see them doing something, but gathering a few thousand builders and then sending them home once work complete is probably not the best plan in a pandemic...….

And it actually takes more time to get that space when doing it this way.

I do like these fast construction projects China has, but I am not so convinced it's that helpful in this particular situation. But it's better than having to use tents.

First case confirmed in Finland.

Infectious diseases specialist Markku Broas from Lapland Central Hospital said that the tourist left Wuhan province five days ago. The province, which is the epicentre of the current outbreak, was shut down soon afterwards by Chinese authorities trying to stop the spread of the disease.

"It was to be expected that cases brought by visitors could also come to light in Finland. However the risk of the disease spreading in Finland is still very small, so there is no need for concern," said THL director Mika Salminen.

So far officials estimate that about 15 people may have been exposed to infection. Health authorities will monitor persons exposed to the risk of infection for 14 days, in accordance with World Health Organization recommendations.

Finland's first coronavirus case confirmed in Lapland

A Chinese tourist in Lapland has tested positive for novel coronavirus.

yle.fi

I do have to wonder why they had to be allowed to be walking around all over the place despite knowing they come from that region.

 

[Junglejim]

Of course we have to remember that the conditions for outbreak like this (market that sells live wild animals for food, butchers them on the spot, drains the remains to public drain and doesn't use refrigeration), and very high population density, don't exist in most of those other countries. In these small population density countries, it's going to be simpler to quarantine those who are infected and find people they were in contact with.

So no, I think best place for such outbreak would have been some small, rich island nation with small population that could easily have been quarantined and cut off by other countries. It would only have been on the minor news for a short period of time. This happened in the worst possible time in high population density area.

I caught the swine flu while in Army, and in those conditions (12 people / room) it spread like wildfire, unlike in civilian world. I'm just saying this to remind that conditions matter, a lot.

And if I remember correctly from earlier discussion, 50% of the people had already left. So it's not like China succeeded that much better than other states would, when trying to stop movement of large populations.

It wouldnt be a pandemic if it was just a small Island nation and its an avian flu. What i meant is in a scanario of an epidemic China would be in a far better position to handle it. You just actually answered your self with your question now about why people who are suspected in other countries are allowed to be let loose and walk around.... rights.

That being said, if these building are up to the stereotypical Chinese standards, and thus prone to, let's say, collapsing...

I mean... that's one way of dealing with sick people! Technically, if you are dead you are not sick anymore and even less likely to spread the disease!

Stereotypical Chinese building standards? So far the amount of building that collapsed is on par with what is happening to the rest of the worl, and they are building far more than most nation or regions combined.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Stereotypical Chinese building standards? So far the amount of building that collapsed is on par with what is happening to the rest of the worl, and they are building far more than most nation or regions combined.

That was meant to be in jest. I'll include a disclaimer next time.


edit: Russia closed its borders with China.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

My understanding is the hospital to be something like a military field hospital, inflatable tents etc.. etc.. in a purpose prepared compound and not a purpose built multi story construction as we see civil hospitals.

 

[Mordoror]

Update :
7700 patients, 170 deaths
It is going up quickly quickly

 

[Dercius]

Update :
7700 patients, 170 deaths
It is going up quickly quickly

Because real figures are way higher and there is no way to hide the spread of the outbreak.

Anyone believing that CCP put cities and regions with tens of millions of inhabitants on lockdown because 2000 sick, is really naive, and doesnt know a few things about CCP apparatus.

Countries starting to react now, probably too late because somebody decided to buy what CCP was selling. Seems that a little bit of humint-sigint would have been handy in this situation. Now countries are scrambling to see who is the first announcing that they close borders with China. Another one of those moments in history were one can say, too little, too late.

Hoping for the best outcome anyway.

As usual no news from Best Korea regarding this outbreak. If they get hit by this outbreak, the deathtoll will be huge there.

 

[Picanha]

Nope
Nobody can with such transmission rate
Medicalised quarantine rooms are complex systems (with over-pressure/under-pressure air flow, filtered air, several sas and doors and a specific architecture). Most western countries have at most a handful of them. In France we have 4 to 6 by hospital and i guess that this is the norm in Europe and USA. With 32 major hospitals that gives a capacity of less than 200 patients, 300 max if my numbers are not correct.
I dunno how much major hospitals they have in China but don't forget that to the contrary to small europena countries, they won't transfer a patient from a region to another. So i can understand how they have their hands full with around 5000 confirmed cases quanratined in a single region.

To quote you again Bavaria alone has about 370 hospitals (which would already make about 700 patients @ 2 per hospital for our 13 mill. inhabitants) which are now preparing to accept patients and are doing mofifications such as air locks and specially designated rooms and are stocking up on protective clothing.

Something is rotten in the state of China, lets hope they are not hiding hundreds of thousands infected persons as some tin foil hattters presume.

Meanwhile in the Russian Federation:

Russia closes 2,700-mile border with China to stop coronavirus

It follows instructions to officials from President Vladimir Putin to do all they can to prevent the spread of the new coronavirus.

metro.co.uk

 

[droopy]

As usual no news from Best Korea regarding this outbreak. If they get hit by this outbreak, the deathtoll will be huge there.

Did not think about this scenario. But it would not spread as fast, since most people there are tied to where they live. without cars or public transport.

 

[Fluff]

Did not think about this scenario. But it would not spread as fast, since most people there are tied to where they live. without cars or public transport.

China is NK's biggest trade partner. So its already in NK, and will impact the cities, and the cities trade with/get food from the countryside - same hygiene and slaughter issues in NK, so its not going to be pretty - seriously I would expect Mr Trump to provide assistance, not that I believe such assistance can arrive quickly enough to help, other than basic food, ibrufen, thermometers etc. high level medical help, not a hope in terms of availability, and volume needed, it doesn't exist.

 

[Junglejim]

Because real figures are way higher and there is no way to hide the spread of the outbreak.

Anyone believing that CCP put cities and regions with tens of millions of inhabitants on lockdown because 2000 sick, is really naive, and doesnt know a few things about CCP apparatus.

Countries starting to react now, probably too late because somebody decided to buy what CCP was selling. Seems that a little bit of humint-sigint would have been handy in this situation. Now countries are scrambling to see who is the first announcing that they close borders with China. Another one of those moments in history were one can say, too little, too late.

Hoping for the best outcome anyway.

As usual no news from Best Korea regarding this outbreak. If they get hit by this outbreak, the deathtoll will be huge there.

For a guy that supposed to be an expert in the CCP and best Korea, you sure missed out a lot.
Best korea has actually:
-stopped all flights and trains coming from China
- have a quarantine area where they put travels from China for two weeks to observe

In fact one can say that, Best Korea was faster to shut its borders down to China than other korea.

 

[Fluff]

For a guy that supposed to be an expert in the CCP and best Korea, you sure missed out a lot.
Best korea has actually:
-stopped all flights and trains coming from China
- have a quarantine area where they put travels from China for two weeks to observe

In fact one can say that, Best Korea was faster to shut its borders down to China than other korea.

That suggests a better understanding of how its going in China.....

worrying.....

 

[Junglejim]

Actually the reaction of CCP was fast, with them coming forward as soon as it exploded in the seen and invited WHO. Hell even the CDC was surprised how quickly China consulted everyone and sent samples. It was China that was ringing the alarms that this things is out of control. It was the WHO and CDC that said "meh, its not that bad" and now they are saying "ok ok maybe not that good either"

 

[Ivan le Fou]

That's "funny", but how the topic has, somehow, shifted on how DPRK has dealt/is dealing with the issue reminds me, in a certain way, of chapter in WWZ and how North Korea went through, or supposedly/allegedly, went through the pandemic.

 

[Junglejim]

I believe World War Z was written to originally as a manual or guide on how to survive an epidemic, replaced with zombies to not be too critical. So yeah, thats what I was pointing too, if need be these two countries can stop the spread "dead" on its tracks. While the rest of us will worry about world image or "rights"

 

[Fluff]

I believe World War Z was written to originally as a manual or guide on how to survive an epidemic, replaced with zombies to not be too critical. So yeah, thats what I was pointing too, if need be these two countries can stop the spread "dead" on its tracks. While the rest of us will worry about world image or "rights"

I think practicalities come into it, UK has less than 100K full time soldiers, if you deploy them you might make London more secure.... that's it, your not going to replicate the travel rules in China, or the media control, etc. So yes their ruling system(I cant say political as the people didnt choose it) could give them an advantage, but their feudal level hygiene caused it, and didnt cause it in UK, so we can probably control/survive, just in a different way from China. And we have the white cliffs of Dover......and Vera Lynn.

And Governments have and can impose many things, drafts/call up, if needed, would be done - how many turn up, who knows, but ultimately they would go door to door and take people.

 

[Junglejim]

Well so far it seems that the infection across the planet is not going as fast as it is in China. Now imagine if it had been like it was with SARS where China went mum on the subject, we would have probably seen a bigger pandemic than it is now.

 

[Mordoror]

To quote you again Bavaria alone has about 370 hospitals (which would already make about 700 patients @ 2 per hospital for our 11 mill. inhabitants) which are now preparing to accept patients and are doing mofifications such as air locks and specially designated rooms and are stocking up on protective clothing.

Something is rotten in the state of China, lets hope they are not hiding hundreds of thousands infected persons as some tin foil hattters presume.

Meanwhile in the Russian Federation:

Russia closes 2,700-mile border with China to stop coronavirus

It follows instructions to officials from President Vladimir Putin to do all they can to prevent the spread of the new coronavirus.

metro.co.uk

I don't know what you are counting like hospitals
The 34 french ones are the CHU (centre hospitalier universitaire) so the "true" hospitals with complete technical plate forms
There are plenty of private clinics (in the city where i live there are 2 hospitals for 8 clinics and probably more if you take the region) but these ones don't have quarantine rooms
I don't think that your 370 hospitals can qualify as first line hospitals under the definition i use and i don't think they all have negative pressure quarantine rooms. It is expensive stuff that doesn't interest the private sector. You better assume that your number of secured beds are way lower than what you stated (without any ill feeling behind my statement)

 

[Junglejim]

It's finally reached our shores... so i have my apocalypse song on already

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[Mordoror]

I think practicalities come into it, UK has less than 100K full time soldiers, if you deploy them you might make London more secure.... that's it, your not going to replicate the travel rules in China, or the media control, etc. So yes their ruling system(I cant say political as the people didnt choose it) could give them an advantage, but their feudal level hygiene caused it, and didnt cause it in UK, so we can probably control/survive, just in a different way from China. And we have the white cliffs of Dover......and Vera Lynn.

And Governments have and can impose many things, drafts/call up, if needed, would be done - how many turn up, who knows, but ultimately they would go door to door and take people.

Mind you after having spend 20 days of China, their hygiene system is not so bad. There are areas where it is behind but the hospital i visited (for*hum hum* some stomach issues) was technically well equiped and well staffed, better than some western hospitals. It is a different health system (speed and efficiency vs anonymity and patient individual care) but i had my blood results in 30 min when the same would have taken 2 days in France. Was it because i was a turist, i dunno but still.

Futhermore, every single of their restaurant has a hygiene quotation plastered at the entry (something you don't have in the west). It's up to you if you want to eat in a level D or a level A cleanliness restaurant.

Beside that they all use mask and gloves, even in remote areas, to serve you meal, something that is not seen there.
Paradoxicaly the meat is sometimes left in a plate on the ground.
A lot of paradoxes, this country.

The thing that explains the emergence of pathogens is mostly their live food markets with plenty of species and plenty of cramped people (cramped because well, it's China). But it could have happened elsewhere. We had our share of alerts (bird flu). Our supposed industrial processes doesn't protect us from foood borne diseases and certainly not from a virus that has decided to go recombinant. The thing is that we handle less exotic species so are less at risk to see a weird recombinant emerge.
But we have other issues that we shouldn't be proud of

Whooping cough evolving into a superbug

Whooping cough bacteria are becoming smarter at colonizing and feeding off unwitting hosts -- whether they have been vaccinated or not -- strengthening calls for a new vaccine.

www.sciencedaily.com

Multi-drug resistant gonorrhoea in England: 2018

Microbiological and epidemiological information relating to multi-drug resistant gonorrhoea (MDRGC) in England, the first case being reported in March 2018.

www.gov.uk

 

[Picanha]

Every Kreisstadt (district city) has a hospital with helipad and ICU ward and several surgery rooms as well as MRT and CT and additional diagnostics.

Typical Example Klinikum Landsberg a. Lech

I