Politics The 2020 American Presidential Election

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@Mardonius

There's no doubt in my mind the outgoing administration did have its successes, economically in particular.

Which successes actually? Did he somehow solve the enormous income inequality between large sections of the American people? Or did he just lowered taxes for the most wealthy segments? To what extent did Trump by the way ride on the economic windfall set by the previous administration?

And whilst crude, Trump's policies of taking on China were commendable in their intention.

Which resulted in which success exactly?

As it lacked a foreign agenda to speak of, I see myself unable to categorise Trump's stance towards America's allies as a "foreign policy". I think it was tailored entirely to garnering approval with domestic isolationists who keep telling themselves the world is abusing America's benevolence.

The sole premise of his foreign policy was transactional in nature. A one-dimensional business approach, arguably part of his 'art of the deal' ingenuity, that completely denied and undermined the intrinsic worth of any alliance or non-material relationship.

As far as I can tell, his only foreign failure of note was North Korea, though it remained largely inconsequential.

Iran is by far a greater failure.

Trump understood to cater to the feeling of many Americans that something is deeply wrong with their country. It's what got him elected, and it's what almost got him reelected.

They have been bamboozled. Many of these Americans are outright white supremacists; the perceived loss of racial-inclined national identity is the primary motivation in many of these cases. Clinton was right; they are deplorables in every sense of the word. The attempt to intellectualize their apparent grievances is futile.
 
I hope that finally we can dispense with “some violence is acceptable and good” to violence is never, ever the answer.

On the other hand most European countries owe their political, social and legal freedoms and rights to the societal changes that were implemented following the French Revolution. A process that started with the storming of the Bastille. You think the French nobility and those of the other countries would have just given up their divine privileges and hand out rights when people asked for them? Not a chance. 2A is in the Constitution second only after freedom of speech for the founding fathers feared the rule of the few over the many as a continuous threat. War is a continuation of diplomacy through other means just like political violence is the last resort for people that feel they are being treated like dirt ("deplorables") by the elites and even their only way to speak up, the elections, are rigged to do the elite's bidding. Both parties and their cronies in the media are equally responsible for pushing society to this point.
 
On the other hand most European countries owe their political, social and legal freedoms and rights to the societal changes that were implemented following the French Revolution. A process that started with the storming of the Bastille. War is a continuation of diplomacy through other means just like political violence is the last resort for people that feel they are being treated like dirt ("deplorables") by the elites. Both parties and their cronies in the media are equally responsible for pushing society to this point.

The elites screw the peasants over , the peasants revolt and the elites blame the peasants . It's about where we are at .
 
Fact: the only reason why Trump did not start a war, was because Iran restrained itself.
Fact 1: Trump sacked the corporate hawk Tillerson who was pushing for escalation in Syria.
Fact 2: Trump sacked the corporate hawk Bolton who was pushing for escalation in Venezuela.
Bonus: Trump announced US troops from Iraq.

To sum it up not only Trump didnt start new wars he actually tried to clean some of the mess left by previous administrations.
 
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On the other hand most European countries owe their political, social and legal freedoms and rights to the societal changes that were implemented following the French Revolution. A process that started with the storming of the Bastille. You think the French nobility and those of the other countries would have just given these rights when people asked for them? Not a chance. 2A is in the Constitution second only after freedom of speech for the founding fathers feared the rule of the few over the many as a continuous threat. War is a continuation of diplomacy through other means just like political violence is the last resort for people that feel they are being treated like dirt ("deplorables") by the elites. Both parties and their cronies in the media are equally responsible for pushing society to this point.

Spoken like a true armchair general and hypocrite. A pathetic attempt to legitimize violence and the outright undermining of the liberal democratic tradition simply because a specific election result did not concur with your political wishes. Weren't all you Trump cult followers mocking the violent protests of the BLM movement, or are large-scale protests/riots as a result of multiple killings of unarmed black people by the police per definition unjust because they are primarily being conducted by the coloured?
 
Fact 1: Trump sacked the corporate hawk Tillerson who was pushing for escalation in Syria.
Fact 2: Trump sacked the corporate hawk Bolton who was pushing for escalation in Venezuela.
Bonus: Trump announced US troops from Iraq.

To sum it up not only Trump didnt start new wars he actually tried to clean some of the mess left by previous administrations.

Utter nonsense.

Tillerson got sacked because he primarily opposed the dissolution of the Iran deal and the powerful donors behind the GOP and the Trump administration (like Sheldon Adelson) wanted to have a anti-Iran hawk in place at the State Department. Also, Tillerson together with Mattis stopped Saudi Arabia from invading Qatar at the beginning of the GCC-crisis, which made him a target of UAE and Saudi instigated lobbying efforts to replace him. See this article.

Trump appointed Bolton in the first place, so it is laughable to argue that he eventually got sacked.

Trump did not withdraw troops in Iraq, and at some point even increased troop presence in the Middle East.

Fact: Trump filled US intelligence agencies and political ranks with all kinds of ideological anti-Iran hawks, like Pompeo, Gina Haspel (CIA), Mike D'Andrea (CIA), Ezra Cohen-Watnick, who were hell bent on starting a war with Iran, which the wars in Syria and Afghanistan would have paled in comparison with.

You guys are so uninformed over here. It is staggering.
 
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Yet they are insurrectionists according to the piddly woman Biden.

The two protest styles are night and day different. All home by curfew. No relapse. No looting shooting. No kkk militia. All the paranoid predictions by the internet arm chairs generals in the old days were enough to be commuted to the mental asylum.
Besides only voting by paper the capitalists prefer not to burn each others property.
 
Yet they are insurrectionists according to the piddly woman Biden.

The two protest styles are night and day different. All home by curfew. No relapse. No looting shooting. No kkk militia. All the paranoid predictions by the internet arm chairs generals in the old days were enough to be commuted to the mental asylum.
Besides only voting by paper the capitalists prefer not to burn each others property.

Just thousands of terrorists storming the Capitol, the heart of US democracy; more than a dozen of pipe bombs found in the area; a guy with 10 molotov cocktails arrested before he could wreck havoc; 'fine' people spotted inside the building with 'Camp Auschwitz' shirts; Israeli journalists being harassed by people screaming anti-Semite slurs; conspiracy theory nutjobs and white supremacists have being identified already; etc.

These baffoons were hell bent on taking hostages. Note the zip ties:

ErFsvKHXcAEOnyE.jpg


No KKK you say? Something which happened at the same time as the riots at the Capital, but then in Georgia:

 

Everyone in Britain thought that breaking into the Capitol was a really odd way for Jamiroquai to announce a new album. (Joke shamelessly stolen from someone on Twitter)

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Just thousands of terrorists storming the Capitol, the heart of US democracy; more than a dozen of pipe bombs found in the area; a guy with 10 molotov cocktails arrested before he could wreck havoc; 'fine' people spotted inside the building with 'Camp Auschwitz' shirts; Israeli journalists being harassed by people screaming anti-Semite slurs; conspiracy theory nutjobs and white supremacists have being identified already; etc.

These baffoons were hell bent on taking hostages. Note the zip ties:

ErFsvKHXcAEOnyE.jpg


No KKK you say? Something which happened at the same time as the riots at the Capital, but then in Georgia:


More than thousands. Hundreds of thousands of crackers were there and not one TV shop looted.
 
The elites screw the peasants over , the peasants revolt and the elites blame the peasants . It's about where we are at .
As soon as the peasants have successfully revolted against the elites they themselves become the new elite. The fact is, most revolts in history created governments just as bad or even worse than the ones they'd set out to replace.

That's why I'm quite wary of revolutionaries no matter their political background. Most of the time they lack the humility to ask the crucial questions: Am I intelligent and righteous enough to seek this power?
No. This is precisely the double standard that the left uses for “justifiable” violence and anything they disagree with. All of it is wrong. Period.
On this matter (and this matter alone) I have to disagree. Blame it on my previous working for my country's parliament if you like.

Pointing out a difference does not reduce one iota the radical left's guilt for last year's riots or any other act of violence committed in their name. Whenever a figurative red line is crossed, the degrees of violation of social norms aren't measured in categories of bad and less bad (let alone more okay). You wouldn't call a one-fold murderer a better person than a double murderer, would you?

Rioters attacking some random neighbourhood anywhere in the country will commit arson, criminal property damage, illegal trespassing and any number of similar offences. Should their actions be concerted and objectively suited to intimidating parts of the population they might cross the threshold of terrorism. But that's pretty much the end of it.

If rioters with the declared intent to coerce the termination of said session attack the Capitol – the seat of the legislative branch, a constitutional body indispensable to a functioning state – during a session formally required to validate the results of the presidential elections, then their actions are a textbook example of an insurrection.

Frankly, I see no room for debating that. If that crowd intended to prevent the legislative branch from formally certifiying the election results they did take part in an insurrection. And that's exactly what many of them were saying about their intentions.

A random neighbourhood isn't a constitutional body. Vandalising innocent people's property and creating an atmosphere of fear are despicable crimes, but they're not suited to sabotaging the ability of the constitutional powers to carry out their lawful duty. Portland going up in flames doesn't impact the ability of citizens elsewhere in the country to exert their constitutional rights; a parliament incapacitated does.

Hence there's a difference. The left's double standards make no difference here. Several things can be true at once.
 
More than thousands. Hundreds of thousands of crackers were there and not one TV shop looted.

Who cares. The events at the Capitol yesterday were far graver than a bunch of shops being looted somewhere in the suburbs. Your moral standard for comparison is flawed.
 
Why can't we hate elected leaders. They seemed horrified by that fact that this emotion has physically manifested.

A few pics of an extremist does not make a crowd of several hundred thousand.
Your maths is flawed.
 
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You guys are so uninformed over here. It is staggering.
I know things that will make your eyes pop out, mate. I just prefer not to discuss corporate interests in public. Dont want to offend westerners on this forum. Most of them believe they fighting for democracy in the Middle East.

Thank you for the link anyway. Interesting read especially if you are able put it in the right context...
 
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Who cares. The events at the Capitol yesterday were far graver than a bunch of shops being looted somewhere in the suburbs. Your moral standard for comparison is flawed.
Glad to know we have a self appointed moral High Priest preaching down from the mountaintop. Who the hell are you to judge anyone’s moral standards? Your false equivalency of what the left has been doing since May, the resulting arson, looting, killings and violent crime surge seems to have slipped your mind.
 
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