Politics The 2020 American Presidential Election

[riderboy]

I say "where is the proof?:

The Trump team does´nt even file fraud cases in courts...They talk about fraud in all the media outlets sympathetic to the presidents attempt to reverse the counted results, but in courts, they don´t go for that. Because you have to swear under oath, because you have to have a serious allegation...look at Ken Stars part in this link.

Trump slams judges' election decisions: 'What kind of a court system is this?'

President Trump blasted judges' rejections of his legal challenges to 2020 election results and said he couldn't be certain any of his cases would make it to the Supreme Court in his first interview since Election Day on Sunday.

www.foxnews.com

There are people who think 9/11 is an inside job and they say they have the proof, but the proof never goes beyond the people claiming to have them...So I don´t believe it, I´ll take the investigations that were led by officials.

In this election, there is screaming of fraud, but nothing substantial is really pushed ahead to the valid authorities. republicans governors, head of electoral committees are dismissing fraud, judges (even named by Donald Trump) are dismissing the cases (sometimes with harsh words about the elements presented to them)...

And come on, those cases in Michigan where Dominion machines counted too many votes compared to the inhabitants of the counties...came from a guy who mistook Michigan for Minnesota...Some serious dude there...How can anyone take this crap seriously?

So no, I don´t think any fraud took place that matters at all. You guys counted 160 million ballots in a system that I don´t like, but where you don´t steal 8 million ballots without an enormous amount of clues and proof.

Donald Trump lost...I can´t remember any election where with such a huge difference of votes, the apparent loser did not concede. So many remarkable examples of leadership, decency, values...



George HW Bush concession speech:

George H. W. Bush Concession Speech

President Bush spoke to supporters in Bush/Quayle campaign headquarters in the Westin Galleria Hotel in Houston after election returns indicated that Gov. Clinton won the election. Arising to the podium to cheers of "Thank you, George!" the president urged his supporters to stand behind the new...

www.c-span.org

John McCain concession speech

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I regret the day I ever voted for Bush, McCain and Romney. Classic defeatists (appeasers) whose sole ambition in life was/is to be liked. Always afraid to anger the press, always eager to compromise their values. Losers who offer nothing in the face of uncompromising Democrat ruthlessness and authoritarianism. And once again, why the eagerness to deny Trump the legal rights and venues available to challenge election results? It's exactly what the Democrats would have done, exactly what the Democrats said they were going to do. Would that make Joe Biden Mugabe as well?? Is it so hard to understand that unless we investigate and find a clear path here the same bullish*t will happen in 2024?

 

[nicememe]

breaking bones at his age can be lethal, that's how my grandma died

 

[Chazman]

I regret the day I ever voted for Bush, McCain and Romney. Classic defeatists (appeasers) whose sole ambition in life was/is to be liked. Always afraid to anger the press, always eager to compromise their values. Losers who offer nothing in the face of uncompromising Democrat ruthlessness and authoritarianism. And once again, why the eagerness to deny Trump the legal rights and venues available to challenge election results? It's exactly what the Democrats would have done, exactly what the Democrats said they were going to do. Would that make Joe Biden Mugabe as well?? Is it so hard to understand that unless we investigate and find a clear path here the same bullish*t will happen in 2024?

I do too. But at the time, Gore and Obama were no alternatives.

 

[Chazman]

What in the hell is happening in Georgia? I wouldn't be surprised if individuals, including the Governor and Sec of State end up getting arrested.

UPDATE — Georgia judge issues ’emergency order’ to freeze all Dominion machines… Judge reverses order one hour later…

UPDATE — Late tonight, the judge issued a third order, freezing the Dominion machines. Read the judge’s third and final order issued late tonight… &nbs…

www.citizenfreepress.com

 

[Ivan le Fou]

It's quite confusing indeed.

A lawsuit was brought to prevent that, which the Judge agreed. One hour later the same judge reversed his own order. And then still the same judge reverses his previous reversal.

1st order: Stop the wipe
2nd order: Disregard that order (first order was too vague or improperly targeted)
3rd order: Disregard that disregarding and no more orders to disregard

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I still have no idea how an election can be botched so badly.

Every day I'm more and more amazed at how the most important civic duty is so absurdly broken.

In third world countries, ok.
But in the US and at that magnitude? That's quite something.

 

[Dercius]

It's quite confusing indeed.

A lawsuit was brought to prevent that, which the Judge agreed. One hour later the same judge reversed his own order. And then still the same judge reverses his previous reversal.

1st order: Stop the wipe
2nd order: Disregard that order (first order was too vague or improperly targeted)
3rd order: Disregard that disregarding and no more orders to disregard

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I still have no idea how an election can be botched so badly.

Every day I'm more and more amazed at how the most important civic duty is so absurdly broken.

In third world countries, ok.
But in the US and at that magnitude? That's quite something.

X2
US is giving the image of being just another third world nation regarding electoral process and clean elections. A Zimbawe with nukes and aircraft carriers.

As far as I can see it Democracy in the US is gravely wounded. If Biden is declared president +70 million citizens lost all faith in the system, as the election was robbed.
If Trump is declared president, +60 million citizens keep hating the US supporting groups bent on destructing the country like BLM+antifa because their lives are pointless + orange man bad. Yes I said +60m, no way in hell Biden got more votes than Obama on his first campaign. At least not from living/real citizens

 

[nicememe]

I still have no idea how an election can be botched so badly.

Every day I'm more and more amazed at how the most important civic duty is so absurdly broken.

In third world countries, ok.
But in the US and at that magnitude? That's quite something.

How about this:
1. The elections in the US have been as corrupt as anywhere else in the world for decades, but this never came up to the surface, because the opposition between democrats and republicans was never this severe, and all election fraud conflicts were settled internally between parties without surfacing to public view. Now that the two parties are at each other's throats bordering on civil war, internal settlement of fraud is no longer an option, and the fight is taken to public view.
2. "Third world" countries when it comes to democratic contexts is a meme. Even the US understands that democracy doesn't actually work, hence why it never implemented the democratic mechanisms at home, which it attempts to enforce abroad. Democratic systems are good at keeping countries crippled and incapable of putting up a fight against foreign interference.

 

[Gaz]

As a complete aside, I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about that line of blue running west/east through Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia and then Northeast up into the Carolinas but for the life of me, I can't remember where I saw it. I think the long and short of it was that line had large African-American populations due to historic slave populations - was genuinely an interesting read.

 

[nobitadaidamvn]

breaking bones at his age can be lethal, that's how my grandma died

a broken hip then sure , but it just a leg so he will be fine . wonder if biden will made new law on gun or not if he did then rip ak and ar fan

 

[Junglejim]

How about this:
1. The elections in the US have been as corrupt as anywhere else in the world for decades, but this never came up to the surface, because the opposition between democrats and republicans was never this severe, and all election fraud conflicts were settled internally between parties without surfacing to public view. Now that the two parties are at each other's throats bordering on civil war, internal settlement of fraud is no longer an option, and the fight is taken to public view.
2. "Third world" countries when it comes to democratic contexts is a meme. Even the US understands that democracy doesn't actually work, hence why it never implemented the democratic mechanisms at home, which it attempts to enforce abroad. Democratic systems are good at keeping countries crippled and incapable of putting up a fight against foreign interference.

To understand a S**t hole country, you have to be one.

 

[downsizer]

As a complete aside, I read an interesting article a few weeks ago about that line of blue running west/east through Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia and then Northeast up into the Carolinas but for the life of me, I can't remember where I saw it. I think the long and short of it was that line had large African-American populations due to historic slave populations - was genuinely an interesting read.

Read the same article mate, was it BBC?

 

[Gaz]

Certainly possible but can't be sure. Googling anything now just pulls up hundreds of unrelated articles - afraid this one might be lost to the mists of time.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

How about this:
1. The elections in the US have been as corrupt as anywhere else in the world for decades, but this never came up to the surface, because the opposition between democrats and republicans was never this severe, and all election fraud conflicts were settled internally between parties without surfacing to public view. Now that the two parties are at each other's throats bordering on civil war, internal settlement of fraud is no longer an option, and the fight is taken to public view.
2. "Third world" countries when it comes to democratic contexts is a meme. Even the US understands that democracy doesn't actually work, hence why it never implemented the democratic mechanisms at home, which it attempts to enforce abroad. Democratic systems are good at keeping countries crippled and incapable of putting up a fight against foreign interference.

I would rather say the problems lies in the way the elections are carried out.

There is non-uniformed voting process, or processes, and the voting rules may very well differ from one legislature to another.

Corruption may, also, very well be another factor, along with incompetence, but far from being equal to what we can see in genuine Third World countries. Let's say... the Philippines and the Hello Garci scandal; purely as an example.


Anyway for those of you who are interested in legal analysis:

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[nobitadaidamvn]

To understand a S**t hole country, you have to be one.

he aint wrong that democracy don't work in poor country , there reason why Taiwan was dictator rule by kmt befor they transform to democracy once they economic reach certain level , same for korea, Malaysian ( mahatir ), Singapore ( well Singapore is still dictator rule by lee family , they have abit more democracy but not much compare to malay/korea/Taiwan ) , you don't see they become democracy during developing period , Philippine biggest fubar was being democracy way too fast , didn't help marcos is not that a great of leader compare to Korean/Taiwan dictator wasted a lot of time and fail to develop Philippine economic , same can be seen in india ,way too early to be a democracy .

 

[nobitadaidamvn]

X2
US is giving the image of being just another third world nation regarding electoral process and clean elections. A Zimbawe with nukes and aircraft carriers.

As far as I can see it Democracy in the US is gravely wounded. If Biden is declared president +70 million citizens lost all faith in the system, as the election was robbed.
If Trump is declared president, +60 million citizens keep hating the US supporting groups bent on destructing the country like BLM+antifa because their lives are pointless + orange man bad. Yes I said +60m, no way in hell Biden got more votes than Obama on his first campaign. At least not from living/real citizens

eh we will never know if biden get more or less vote then the reality , but the fact are trump 4 year rule and bad decision on covid and the strong rival of republic and democrat really made people go out to vote , heck Asian normal doesn't care about election , yet you see this year they come out to vote a lot more then during Obama period and most of them are voting for biden ( trump also lost a lot of indian voter dual to harris a indian-Jamaican , they wanted to see first indian in high position , young Vietnamese American normal doesn't vote same for Korean and Japanese / Chinese / thai /indo, .... but this time they did come out to vote and majority of them are for biden ( while trump get vote from older generation ( aka old Vietnamese folk vote for trump , while they son / grandchildren vote for biden ) whatever the result are , this election really hurt america in general and America will have to lick it wound for years for sure , the Chinese will used this to expand they influence ( central asia and europe / Africa for sure ) , in asia they may not work ( dual to japan/korea/india/Australia countering them + country like Indonesia/Vietnam will promote asean centrality so majority of asean will be neutral and stand with asean to avoid being force to chose side ( chose asean instead of America-china ) the only odd ball will be Cambodia who doesnt have much choice , @Junglejim will the Philippine be neutral ( aka chose asean ) or chose side after dueterte ? will be interest to watch next election of the Philippine , the Chinese and American will sure pour money into the leader they wanted and try to influence it

 

[Chazman]

Earlier today.

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[Euroamerican]

Meanwhile, the great communicator disparages white men for believing white men are under attack.

Obama: Republicans portraying white men as 'victims' helped Trump win votes

Former president made remark about Republican messaging in interview with Breakfast Club

www.theguardian.com

I can't think of a more race-baiting, divisive individual on the political stage at the moment.

Frankly, I think he is evil. Always have. He's so smooth with his speeches. He's got white libs almost ready to walk into the fire for their "sins".

 

[Chazman]

Frankly, I think he is evil. Always have. He's so smooth with his speeches. He's got white libs almost ready to walk into the fire for their "sins".

I agree. I've never been fooled by him, but I know others who are mesmerized. Does anyone believe that Biden hiding in his basement, actually got more votes than Obama?

 

[Junglejim]

I would rather say the problems lies in the way the elections are carried out.

There is uniformed voting process, or processes, and the voting rules may very well differ from one legislature to another.

Corruption may, also, very well be another factor, along with incompetence, but far from being equal to what we can see in genuine Third World countries. Let's say... the Philippines and the Hello Garci scandal; purely as an example.

Let me see issues raised by Trumpistas:
- Absentee voting
- Smartmatic voting machines being manipulated
- Polls by independent research agencies are lies.
- Early declaration of the winner
- populist candidate who felt that the common man would ensure his victory... didnt pan out
- Bribery and fraudulent votes

Well lets just say, the Philippines called and we want our 2004 elections back. Sadly, the results are also very much the same, when actual recounts where made the winning candidate did actually win. (lucky for US, we actually got a president that fixed the economy.) So as America seems to be a fan, there will be rallies about Bidens legitimacy too.

So since you are an expert on how much fraud and incompetence happened in the US. Is it just enough fraud and incompetence to be acceptable for western standards? How much would it take to be close to "being equal to genuine Third World countries like the Philippines?" Cause the claims by Trumpistas are numbers that only tinpot dictators can only dream off.

FYI, it took a dictator like Marcos faster to concede defeat than Trump. Asian nations along with Europeans nations embroiled in corruption and scandals, like say Italy or France know you never go full shithole. (Though I doubt you would know much about those countries being stuck in Trumps ass for so long.... how does it smell? Is it an acquired taste?)

You never seize to amaze me, if Saddam had Baghdad bob, I guess Trump has Baguette Ivan

 

[bfc1001]

How about this:
1. The elections in the US have been as corrupt as anywhere else in the world for decades, but this never came up to the surface, because the opposition between democrats and republicans was never this severe, and all election fraud conflicts were settled internally between parties without surfacing to public view. Now that the two parties are at each other's throats bordering on civil war, internal settlement of fraud is no longer an option, and the fight is taken to public view.
2. "Third world" countries when it comes to democratic contexts is a meme. Even the US understands that democracy doesn't actually work, hence why it never implemented the democratic mechanisms at home, which it attempts to enforce abroad. Democratic systems are good at keeping countries crippled and incapable of putting up a fight against foreign interference.

I think theirs a lot correct about your first point . Though the US has a 2 party system they have effectively worked hand in hand for many years now . Trump was a hand grenade that has disturbed the duopoly and now no one knows what to believe . As for fraud , I still don't see widespread fraud in most if all western democracies moreover the fraud is embedded in media platforms . False stories / accusations to persuade the public to vote a certain way though trump managed to find a way through this to get elected in the first place .
There's a hell of a lot of science that goes into election marketing campaigns ( which seem to run 24/7 these days ) . Tapping into herd mentality is easily done if you bombard people enough with certain types of stories . The real birthplace of this was Mrs thatchers 1979 election victory and her use of the saachi and saachi marketing company . The birthplace of neo liberal/ identity politics in my opinion . Your sold an election as apposed to being sold policy ideas . Every political party has used the same method since though it seems that the effects are starting to fragment hence the tribal nature of modern day politics .

Manipulators of Our Unconscious Desires

We all are vulnerable to the entreaties of hucksters and tricksters.

www.psychologytoday.com