Discussion about WWIII

[Bombardier]

I have enjoyed reading this thread, I am sure it is in the minds of many members and casual viewers that we live in a time of instability and wars are already being fought for various reasons.

However I feel the need to say that I have read some entries that were very close to the bone and had my fingers perched above the delete button.

I am keen to allow freedom of speech because it is very important and although I have not seen any direct insults or abuse, I have been concerned about the anti West & East sentiment I have seen.

Of course being proud of your nation is very important and I am sure that at a grass roots level all members can at least respect that regardless of their thoughts about that particular country. Sometimes making a reference to another's country can, and does offend especially when the reference is used in a negative way. As previously mentioned we are all proud of our respective countries.

Now we all know there are Geopolitical and cultural differences between certain nation states and that it will not always be possible to avoid making reference to those differences. So in conclusion I want us all to think carefully about posts here and on other threads and take time to think "Do I really need to say that, to make my point" and if I have to say it how can I make it known that we mean no offence, be subjective and back up your comments with facts.

As a footnote - We will not allow Flame wars,baiting or otherwise. If I see it and believe strongly enough that is what it is, I will deal with it as will the Mods.

I hope you understand my point of view.

 

[Black Pawn]

@ Black Pawn, sticking to the facts - in 1938, Germans and Poles entered Czechoslovakia. The Soviet Union is attacking only Poland.

Because there was non-agression Treaty between USSR and Germany signed after it. I don't want to say anything bad about Polish politics (both previous and modern), but at the 1939 Poland had no neighbours-friends. Captured Vilno from Lithuania, captured West Belorussia and West Ukraine, captured part of Chzehia, conflict with Slovakia, conflict with Hungaria, bad relationships with Germany... And in the most important moment they were traitored by France and UK.
There are chances, that situation can be repeated at the start of WWIII - state support of the Russophobic parts of Lithuanian, Belorussian and Ukrainian society, affecting of German (and whole West-European) economical interests in the North Stream, trust to NATO, UK and USA in the questions of the state defence...

When Poland occupies areas inhabited by Poles - it is aggression. When in 1968 The Soviet Union entered Czechoslovakia because it wanted to become independent of the Soviet Union - it is "help for the fraternal Czechoslovak nation and its authorities."

In fact, there were 270 thousands of Chzehs and 60 thousands of Poles in Teschen region at 1938. And yes, Soviet Union, and other countries of Warshav's Pact made help to the legal Chzehoslovakia government in suppressing anti-Soviet riots. Absolutely same thing as help to legal Syrian and Iraq government in the fight with ISIS

On November 26, 1938, a joint communiqué of both governments (Soviet and Polish) was announced that the basis of relations remained in its entirety all existing agreements, including the Polish-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact of July 25, 1932.

In fact, there was said:

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"Ряд бесед, имевших место в последнее время между народным комиссаром иностранных дел т. Литвиновым и послом Польской Республики г. Гжибовским, выяснил, что:

1) Основой отношений между Польской Республикой и Союзом Советских Социалистических Республик остаются и впредь во всем своем объеме все существующие договоры, включая Договор о ненападении, подписанный в 1932 году, и что этот договор, заключенный на пять лет и продленный на дальнейший срок до 1945 года, имеет достаточно широкую основу, гарантирующую нерушимость мирных отношений между обоими государствами.

2) Оба правительства отнесутся положительно к расширению взаимных торговых оборотов.

3) Оба правительства согласны в необходимости положительного разрешения ряда текущих вопросов, вытекающих из взаимных

Договорных отношений, а в особенности вопросов, не получивших еще разрешения, а также ликвидации возникших за последнее время пограничных инцидентов.

Известия, 1938. 27 ноября."

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"basis of relationships are all treaties[...] Treaty of non-agression signed in 1932 have a wide enough basis to guarantee peaceful relationships" "we hope to solve transborder incidents in peaceful way".

Formally, there are no words, that treaty is still active, as no formal denonsation of it. Everybody see what he want to see.

Another case - September 17, 1939. the Polish army continued to fight. The Polish government withdrew to Romania after the attack of the Soviet Union and not before it - the decision prevailed just crossing the border by Soviet troops.

Polish government leave Warshawa at 1 September. Last order, given by Polish chief commander Eddy Rydz-Śmigły was at 10 September. Yes, brave Polish soldiers were fighting with German even after death of Polish state. Many of them, were continue fighting in the Red Army, Armia Ludowa, other organisations.

There is one great additional benefit of talking to you - you are forcing me to learn English faster.

My pleasure.

Thank you for knowing about the experimental Soviet tanks. My knowledge about them is quite vague. The T-80 was designed to operate on the battlefield after the attack with nuclear weapons, currently Russia is pushing for the modernization of the T-72B / T-90 family. What is this caused?

Actually we pushing modernisation of all thank lines, and the first serial rank, with anti-nuclear protection system was T-55. Since 50th all our tanks are designed for nuclear war.

 

[Conhoon]

If you quote - do not cut out important fragments, please:

"1) The basis for the relations between the Republic of Poland and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics remains, in all its scope, all existing treaties, including the Non-Aggression Pact signed in 1932, and that this treaty, concluded for five years and extended for a further period until 1945 , has a sufficiently broad basis, guaranteeing the inviolability of peaceful relations between both states."

The conclusion from this is clear - first the confirmation of the nonaggression pact with Poland, and then the signing of the nonaggression pact with Germany, which is the starting point for talks on the de facto next partition of Poland.
Let me remind you - we are still talking about the claim that Russia has never been an aggressor for the past 1000 years.

Bending facts will not help. Let me quote - non existing order in accordance with your argument - the order of the Supreme Commander Edward (not EDDY) Rydz - Śmigły on September 17: "I order: due to the situation of Bolshevik troops made by the march of Poland, withdrawal of troops and equipment to Romania or Hungary. The task of Warsaw and the cities that were supposed to defend themselves against the Germans - unchanged The cities the Bolsheviks will approach should negotiate with them on the issue of garrisons' exit to Hungary or Romania. "
You still have not been treated like enemies.

And let's finish this because I'm tired of bending the truth. Russophobia? There is, it's true. And what if there is also an equally strong Polakophobia?

I am not trying to convince you that we are saints and without faults. But do not blame my country for all the evil in the region. I do not remind you of 200 years of annexation. Of the supposedly 1,000-year history of non-aggression of Russia ... I do not paste "funny" videos supposedly about Russians.

This is the end my discussing with you in this thread.

 

[Bombardier]

And that is exactly what I am talking about, you are banned you ignorant ****** that is not acceptable . See you later

 

[Bombardier]

Infact I have deleted all of that S**t, feckin prick

 

[diman]

And that is exactly what I am talking about, you are banned you ignorant ****** that is not acceptable . See you later

It would be worth leaving this message, an excellent example of cowardice. Be afraid to write under your own nickname, registering an account for insults is primitive and funny
The scared person is ridiculous and pathetic

 

[Bombardier]

I will not leave S**t like that for our members to see, especially those it was directed at.

 

[Bombardier]

I shouldnt get so upset about it, but I do and make no apologies for it.
I hope I interjected before you got sight of it brother.

 

[Bombardier]

Just noticed his name,looks like German for S**t Head

 

[Bombardier]

Ah well just banned him and removed his posts completely

 

[Bombardier]

It would be worth leaving this message, an excellent example of cowardice. Be afraid to write under your own nickname, registering an account for insults is primitive and funny
The scared person is ridiculous and pathetic

Very true but we have to learn to accept that there are idiots like this in the world

 

[Black Pawn]

@Conhoon , sorry for any violation of your senses. If you don't want to discuss about the slight (but important) difference between words "our relations are still based on the treaty..." and "The treaty is still active" - I'll not, too.
May be, if you (or anybody else) still want discuss about any Russian agressions - we can choose something more far from Poland or Europe - Japan, Afganistan, Syberia, Alaska, Middle Asia and many other places.
I believe, that Russia is The Holy State, but I also believe that other people can have their own, very different opinion - and imagine us as Mordor's Orokuens, Army of white dead men or Imperium of Humankind. In fact I love such things.
And yes, we have no "Polyakophobia" we don't afraid or feel negative emotions to Poles.
We have "Polonophobia" (from Latin "Polonia" - Poland and archaic Russian "Polon" (modern Russian "Plen") - Captivity, Spoil, Booty.
We don't want to be "bydlo" (polish word that means "cattle", "Russian peasants") working for Polysh Lord's.
There were many interesting moments in our common history. I don't tell that Poland is evil or even "bad guys" (not more, and may be even less then some other NATO countries), and they easily can be converted in "good guys".
In fact, I sound the statement that Russia didn't start any agressive war only for one goal - to tell that Russia should not start WWIII, but her attack should be surprise for enemies. How to do it? Yes, Russian [full-scale nuclear] attack will be respond on the NATO's non-nuclear one against one of our allies.

 

[Conhoon]

@ Black Pawn - I will not be consistent, but I also do not want to end this discussion with disagreement. You say, "I believe, that Russia is The Holy State, but I also believe that other people can have their own, very different opinion - and imagine us as Mordor's Orokuens, Army of white dead men or Imperium of Humankind. In fact I love such things.
And yes, we have no "Polyakophobia" we don't afraid or feel negative emotions to Poles."

You see, in my opinion, history has changed you and us. I do not know anyone in my neighborhood who would call you eg "Mordor". It is difficult to have a bad opinion about you when it comes to the forests and every now and then finds such "remnants" after the last war as those in the picture below (I rarely take such pictures, but yes - in this picture I was c.a. 20 years ago ).

There is a lot of this in the woods around my house. Everyone here remembers also how many young boys from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazahstan, died so that the Germans would not kill us to the last. In the next picture you see the grave of an unknown soldier, one of many - people from here, not the government or other important institutions take care of them. In the picture you can see part of the scouting team to which my daughters belong (one is in the picture). They will also remember. Inscription on the cross - soldier unknown. Someone was waiting for him for a long time.

It is not known how history will unfold. Rather, we do not have much influence on her. If our governments make us fight - we will go. But let's respect ourselves as people as long as we can.

 

[diman]

 

[Bombardier]

@ Black Pawn - I will not be consistent, but I also do not want to end this discussion with disagreement. You say, "I believe, that Russia is The Holy State, but I also believe that other people can have their own, very different opinion - and imagine us as Mordor's Orokuens, Army of white dead men or Imperium of Humankind. In fact I love such things.
And yes, we have no "Polyakophobia" we don't afraid or feel negative emotions to Poles."

You see, in my opinion, history has changed you and us. I do not know anyone in my neighborhood who would call you eg "Mordor". It is difficult to have a bad opinion about you when it comes to the forests and every now and then finds such "remnants" after the last war as those in the picture below (I rarely take such pictures, but yes - in this picture I was c.a. 20 years ago ). View attachment 142461

There is a lot of this in the woods around my house. Everyone here remembers also how many young boys from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazahstan, died so that the Germans would not kill us to the last. In the next picture you see the grave of an unknown soldier, one of many - people from here, not the government or other important institutions take care of them. In the picture you can see part of the scouting team to which my daughters belong (one is in the picture). They will also remember. Inscription on the cross - soldier unknown. Someone was waiting for him for a long time.

View attachment 142462

It is not known how history will unfold. Rather, we do not have much influence on her. If our governments make us fight - we will go. But let's respect ourselves as people as long as we can.

Great post & photos @Conhoon

 

[Black Pawn]

@Conhoon , thank you for your good work, good actions and good children. Many of Poles, may be even absolute majority, have a good sense of right and wrong. Thats why we love Poles as individuals. But some of them, especially those who are in power, accept laws against memorials of Soviet soldiers, and even desecrate and demolish graveyards as it was in Trzcianka. That's why there are opinion that current Polish regime of the state-sponsored Russophobia should not exist.
Talking about WWIII I hope that the Polish people will choose right side and will be important ally of Russia and of all people of the good will.

 

[Black Pawn]

Another moment.
I'm sure you paid attention that weapon demonstrated by Vladimir Putin in his speech is ideal for the first, sudden, anti-force strike. He said nothing about improving of ABD, hacking of tactical computers of Vanguard (and may be other) submarines, Trident missiles (flew in the direction to USA), laser-jamming of warheads, and so on...
Demonstrated systems are good for the first strike, so, I hope, soon we'll be able not just to start and win war, but win it with minimal loses.

 

[Conhoon]

@Conhoon , thank you for your good work, good actions and good children. Many of Poles, may be even absolute majority, have a good sense of right and wrong. Thats why we love Poles as individuals. But some of them, especially those who are in power, accept laws against memorials of Soviet soldiers, and even desecrate and demolish graveyards as it was in Trzcianka. That's why there are opinion that current Polish regime of the state-sponsored Russophobia should not exist.
Talking about WWIII I hope that the Polish people will choose right side and will be important ally of Russia and of all people of the good will.

With this statement, I can only agree. Unfortunately, our current government makes a lot of mistakes - and I'm sorry about that. Not only me, very many Poles think that this is not right for those who died for our country. I hope that we will never have to fight each other. If we fight - it's only together and outside Europe. There is a lot of evil elsewhere and I think it is likely that sooner or later it will come to us. I mean, among other things, the state of misunderstood Islam that aims to annihilate Christians.

 

[Conhoon]

Another moment.
I'm sure you paid attention that weapon demonstrated by Vladimir Putin in his speech is ideal for the first, sudden, anti-force strike. He said nothing about improving of ABD, hacking of tactical computers of Vanguard (and may be other) submarines, Trident missiles (flew in the direction to USA), laser-jamming of warheads, and so on...
Demonstrated systems are good for the first strike, so, I hope, soon we'll be able not just to start and win war, but win it with minimal loses.

I hope it will never happen. We are still talking about the deaths of many civilians on a scale that is not in a conventional war.

 

[Black Pawn]

With this statement, I can only agree. Unfortunately, our current government makes a lot of mistakes - and I'm sorry about that. Not only me, very many Poles think that this is not right for those who died for our country. I hope that we will never have to fight each other. If we fight - it's only together and outside Europe.

And even outside Eurasia. For example - somewhere in North America. Seriouse amount of international problems will be solved after démilitarisation on the Canada-Mexican border.

There is a lot of evil elsewhere and I think it is likely that sooner or later it will come to us. I mean, among other things, the state of misunderstood Islam that aims to annihilate Christians.

It were Europeans who decided to invite terrorists in their lands and to stop to be Christians.