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[HisRoyalHighness]

Well ladies and gentlemen, I have decided to resurrect this tread because the Swiss have capitulated to their EU overlords for a few tourism bucks.

Swiss voters approve stricter gun control laws to fit with EU rules: national broadcaster

Switzerland — one of the most heavily armed countries in Europe — voted to comply with stricter European Union gun laws in a referendum Sunday.

While Switzerland doesn’t belong to the EU, it is part of the bloc’s Schengen Area which is a zone that can be visited without a visa or passport by citizens of 26 European nations.

Following terrorist gun attacks in Paris and Brussels in 2015 and 2016, the EU tightened gun rules, known as the "EU Gun Ban", the bloc encouraged Switzerland to comply with its laws.

The projections from the gfs.bern polling outfit saw the measure passing in the binding referendum by a comfortable 67-33% margin.

Swiss voters approve stricter gun control laws to fit with EU rules

Switzerland — one of the most heavily armed countries in Europe — voted to comply with stricter European Union gun laws in a referendum Sunday.

www.euronews.com

• Under a Revised Firearms directive, a ban on weapons capable of rapidly firing multiple rounds
• Automatic and semi-automatic weapons would either be banned or heavily restricted
• Each owner of such a weapon, and the weapon itself, are known to police across Europe
• All essential weapon components should be clearly labelled and registered electronically

The EU Wants the Non-EU Swiss to Enact Tougher Gun Control Laws - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Go ahead, risk a little “EU tension” . . . What the EU wants: Under a Revised Firearms directive, a ban on weapons capable of rapidly firing multiple rounds Automatic and semi-automatic weapons would either be banned or heavily restricted Each owner of such a...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

That's right folks, Switzerland's gun owners have to pay the price for Islamic terrorism in foreign countries.

EU can go to hell.

For someone with a greater understanding of the situation, here's a reddit post from a Swiss gun owner:

Swiss here. I'll preface by saying I've voted against this law, but the opening of the article and the headline are misleading.
Before you read anything, keep in mind gun culture is different in Europe and again different in Switzerland.
Information from the Swiss govt on the vote.
Here is the english version, although it's lacking some of the information.

1. Switzerland, while not a part of the EU, is part of Schengen. Schengen is an agreement that allows for goods and people to move around the Schengen area (most of Europe) with minimal to no border checks.
   The agreement also extends to some critical data-sharing between police forces, which allows European countries to know about each-others criminals.
   There are a host of other points to Schengen but the key point of it is reduction of border checks.
2. All Schengen countries continuously come together to hash over new parts of the deal and work on its future. As a signatory member, Switzerland participates in this process along with the other countries.
3. Because Schengen allows goods/people to move (mostly) freely across all of Europe, the EU wants to ensure that guns aren't moving from one country to another.
4. Changes to Swiss gun laws (in brief):
   1. Schengen wide background checks to ensure a dual Swiss-European citizen hasn't committed a crime in a different country.
   2. Serial numbering on all gun parts.
   3. Change from shall-issue to may-issue for certain weapon types.
   4. May-issue changes to certain items ("extended" magazines (>10), suppressors and some others)

My thoughts + why I am voting against it:
One thing I like about this law is data-sharing with other EU police forces. Specifically, the issue of dual nationals potentially buying weapons that they should not be.
In Switzerland, all firearm purchases require a clean criminal record.
I, along with most Swiss people, support Schengen and enjoy the advantages it confers.

1. However, the argument that Swiss guns may travel to other EU countries to commit crimes is, IMO, not very believable. For one, it has not (to my knowledge) ever happened.
2. Changing from shall-issue to may-issue will have vastly different ramifications. Certain cantons (equivalent to US states) will continue to issue authorizations. However, certain states are notorious for not issuing these kinds of permits.

Ultimately, I do not think this law will have a fundamental effect on our gun culture if it passes. I do not however believe that it's necessary to implement.

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[Marsch]

What bunch of Bo*****S. The Swiss didn't capitulate to the EU. The majority of its people simply understood what their relaxed gun laws ment for the rest of Europe. Which infact shows that they've a lot of integrity and aren't as stubborn as some others. The overwhelming part simply doesn't seem to care enough about guns and voted that way.

 

[Fish&Chips]

I'm wondering how this will go down with their militia regulations. Will conscripts still be allowed to take their "personal" military arms home after service?

 

[Junglejim]

I congratulate the Swiss for developing a nation so secured with their personal safety and freedom that they found no need for guns anymore

 

[Fish&Chips]

This just in. Apparently the only canton where voters did not approve of the new law was Ticino. All other cantons voted in favour of the proposal with 50+%. The map is based on an official government table.

File:Abstimmung über die EU-Waffenrichtlinie 2019.svg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

 

[Jake84]

Switzerland is indeed pretty peculiar in Europe. It’s hardly a violent society but have some of the sanest laws about firearms... until this day I guess.

The pro-guns folks blame the EU and they are more or less right. However these new laws won’t prevent the law-abiding Swiss free of a criminal record to buy and own firearms and go to the range.

It’s not Australia post Port Arthur massacre or more recently NZ post Christchurch for a simple comparison in the sense that no tragedy triggered this, although it doesn’t make it better.

 

[Marsch]

I'm wondering how this will go down with their militia regulations. Will conscripts still be allowed to take their "personal" military arms home after service?

IIRC the guns they could take home from the military weren't full auto capable anyways. I think they had a modified breech or trigger system and only allowed for single fire but I'm not really sure about this. So don't nail me on it, please.

 

[Fish&Chips]

Thank you Marsch. This site reads though like they are currently able to take along the unmodified Sturmgewehr 90 (aka SIG SG 550 full auto). This would also fit the philosophy behind the whole Swiss militia doctrine: if shite really hits the fan, you can rejoin your mil unit asap without converting your firearm back to full auto, or queuing up at an armoury.

 

[HisRoyalHighness]

What bunch of Bo*****S. The Swiss didn't capitulate to the EU. The majority of its people simply understood what their relaxed gun laws ment for the rest of Europe. Which infact shows that they've a lot of integrity and aren't as stubborn as some others. The overwhelming part simply doesn't seem to care enough about guns and voted that way.

What? They have relaxed gun laws AND a low crime rate AND a low homicide rate.

How the hell can they possibly endanger Europe just from their sane gun laws?

You have more to worry about smuggled AKs and Grenades from the Balkans than from the most neutral nation on Earth.

 

[Devil Child]

I congratulate the Swiss for developing a nation so secured with their personal safety and freedom that they found no need for guns anymore

Or sovereignty.

@HisRoyalHighness so dangerous that gun owners need to be marked with a "scarlet letter" for the convenience of all EU law enforcement agencies.

 

[HisRoyalHighness]

Or sovereignty.

@HisRoyalHighness so dangerous that gun owners need to be marked with a "scarlet letter" for the convenience of all EU law enforcement agencies.

What sucks is the EU's gun ban is so asinine they are trying to put MUSKETS into the same category as bolt action rifles meaning registration, shooting license, medical okay letter, etc for a firearm class that you could buy over the counter, no questions, as long as you are 18+ a few years ago.

Make no mistake, Brussels will continue to push to ban firearms that THEY deem problematic.

Anyway, some good news for a change:

Colorado Recall Effort Targets Aurora Rep Who Sponsored State’s ‘Red Flag’ Law

Now Colorado has enacted one of the most sweeping “red flag” laws in the country (that allows virtually anyone — not just relatives and those close to a target — to initiate a confiscation order against anyone who poses a “significant risk”).

In response, a recall effort has been initiated against Rep. Tom Sullivan of Aurora who sponsored the bill.

Colorado Recall Effort Targets Aurora Rep Who Sponsored State's 'Red Flag' Law - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ Colorado has an impressive history of holding anti-gun politicians accountable for infringements against gun owners’ rights. In post-Sandy Hook 2013, backed by millions of Bloombucks shipped in from New York, the state rammed through a magazine capacity limit law...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[Marsch]

What? They have relaxed gun laws AND a low crime rate AND a low homicide rate.

How the hell can they possibly endanger Europe just from their sane gun laws?

You have more to worry about smuggled AKs and Grenades from the Balkans than from the most neutral nation on Earth.

The problem is that their relaxed laws make it very easy and possible that guns that are sold there come across the border illegally and that's the crucial point with the whole thing. The fact that weapons come in from the Balkan or for example Belgium doesn't means that the Swiss issue shouldn't be tackled. The majority of the Swiss people seem to be smart enough to understand this.

 

[Marsch]

Thank you Marsch. This site reads though like they are currently able to take along the unmodified Sturmgewehr 90 (aka SIG SG 550 full auto). This would also fit the philosophy behind the whole Swiss militia doctrine: if shite really hits the fan, you can rejoin your mil unit asap without converting your firearm back to full auto, or queuing up at an armoury.

Please read the bold part in the following quote.

SR 514.10

Verordnung über die persönliche Ausrüstung der Armeeangehörigen

...

Art. 29 Überlassung des Sturmgewehrs

1 Angehörige der Armee erhalten beim Ausscheiden aus der Armee ein Sturmgewehr zu Eigentum, wenn:

a. sie Anrecht auf die persönliche Ausrüstung oder auf Teile davon haben (Art. 26 und 28);

b. sie in den letzten drei Jahren zweimal das obligatorische Programm 300 m und zweimal das Feldschiessen 300 m absolviert haben und dies im Schiessbüchlein oder im militärischen Leistungsausweis eingetragen ist; und

c. sie einen gültigen Waffenerwerbsschein nach Artikel 8 Absatz 1 des Waffengesetzes vom 20. Juni 1997 (WG) für das Sturmgewehr vorlegen.

2 Das Sturmgewehr wird den Angehörigen der Armee gegen eine Entschädigung von 100 Franken zu Eigentum überlassen.

3 Vor der Überlassung wird das Sturmgewehr durch die LBA zu einer halbautomatischen Feuerwaffe mit Einzelfeuer abgeändert.

4 Welche Waffentypen zu Eigentum überlassen werden können, richtet sich nach den Waffenbeständen der Armee, der Ausbildung der Angehörigen der Armee sowie den Beständen der verschiedenen Waffentypen.

Quelle: https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/20180411/index.html#a29

That's what I was talking about.

 

[HisRoyalHighness]

The problem is that their relaxed laws make it very easy and possible that guns that are sold there come across the border illegally and that's the crucial point with the whole thing. The fact that weapons come in from the Balkan or for example Belgium doesn't means that the Swiss issue shouldn't be tackled. The majority of the Swiss people seem to be smart enough to understand this.

Wow...that's a pretty lame justification, especially considering that the firearms used in the 2015 terrorist attacks, the reason why the EU gun ban became nuclear, came from Eastern Europe and the Balkans. The same sources of firearms for criminals even today in the UK, France, and Sweden.

If IS terrorists and criminals were using SIG 550s, then you would have a case; but you don't.

 

[Devil Child]

The problem is that their relaxed laws make it very easy and possible that guns that are sold there come across the border illegally and that's the crucial point with the whole thing. The fact that weapons come in from the Balkan or for example Belgium doesn't means that the Swiss issue shouldn't be tackled. The majority of the Swiss people seem to be smart enough to understand this.

Or EU nations could take on their own responsibility in enforcing their border controls and laws rather than strong-arming another nation into changing their laws for selfish convenience. The EU will take this approach with the Swiss when the next issue come up.

Reminds me of when California politicians or Illinois politicians screech for us to change our laws for the "moral imperative" of combating their gun crime problems.

I won't support sacrificing my rights to fix someone else's self-inflicted problem. Seems the Swiss chose to do so. Fine for them I guess but to celebrate this as a moral victory or victory against gun crime is pathetic.

 

[Fish&Chips]

Please read the bold part in the following quote.

Thanks a lot! I totally missed that part. So semi-auto it is for self-storage of military-issued rifles.

 

[ao_sepia]

ban semi auto include pistol or shotguns?

 

[muck]

The Swiss had their choice and made it. I don't like the outcome, but at the very least they got to have their say on the matter.

@HisRoyalHighness: Why do you care about the Swiss to such an extent? You're American, right?

 

[Devil Child]

The Swiss had their choice and made it. I don't like the outcome, but at the very least they got to have their say on the matter.

@HisRoyalHighness: Why do you care about the Swiss to such an extent? You're American, right?

Probably the same reason Jacinda Ardern chooses to broadcast her New Zealand opinions on US gun laws. Because they can?

 

[Marsch]

@HisRoyalHighness: What do you know about the gun market in the Swiss? The problem with Swiss guns isn't only related to full-auto ones but also includes pistols and others.

Like I've already said. Just because the weapons used in certain incidents came from certain directions doesn't means one shouldn't tackle other related issues.

@Devil Child: Do you even know what the Schengen Agreement is and what it includes?

@muck: My guess would be that it's because it sets a precedent for a democratic country and it's people freely giving up their rights to own certain types of guns and he's afraid this someday may happen where he lives.