Politics All Things Trump

[Musashi]

Italiani, focus less on bunga bunga and more on your military:

Trump Urges Italy's Leader to Increase Defense Spending

Trump says Italy is only spending 1.1 percent of its gross domestic product on defense, short of a goal set by NATO allies of spending 2 percent

www.voanews.com

I'll call you later.

 

[muck]

But... but Trump!

*can't wait to see how the Dems will spin that one though...*

No offence, Ivan, but that's a dumb thing to say. He who extinguishes a fire that he has started doesn't deserve praise. Especially not now, now that Turkey has secured its goals and hundreds of people have died a needless death. This whole clusterfuck was entirely preventable.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

No offence, Ivan, but that's a dumb thing to say. He who extinguishes a fire that he has started doesn't deserve praise. Especially not now, now that Turkey has secured its goals and hundreds of people have died a needless death. This whole clusterfuck was entirely preventable.

Am I praising Trump though?
Have I said: "Good job Trump! You genius and stable beautiful son of bitch!"?

I am just stating that: it is a good thing the offensive halted, at least for now.

 

[primer]

How though? Were you going to step in to fully back the Kurds? Even more precarious Turkey a contracting EU state and Nato

 

[muck]

How though?

How about listening to his own military and not stepping aside to incite the little Sultan?

Am I praising Trump though?

What is the opposite to the Dems' (unfavourable) spin, if not a favourable one? Please don't give me the semantics circus.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

What is the opposite to the Dems' (unfavourable) spin, if not a favourable one?

Because that's what happens 80% of the time?

But ok, sure, if you think I am praising Trump... go ahead, have fun. Apparently I am a Trump fan boy and such...

As a side note, refusing to join the Trump-hate bandwagon does not mean I support Trump. I would have hoped you lot had understood that by now...


Yes, we can all agree that present situation could have been avoided had the US remained. Which could have been avoided if the US had not been deployed in Syria in the first place, and so on.

The only thing, once again, I am "celebrating" is Turkey having been convinced, in some way and for some reasons, to halt the offensive.

 

[primer]

Trump had been threatening to leave for months. But is it the end that Russia gets more cards or have they been handed another impossible situation.?

 

[Chazman]

It's no secret that Trump wanted US forces out of Syria from day one. Sec of Def Mattis even resigned over that disagreement with the President last year. There is a lot of pressure from the "swamp" to keep American forces everywhere forever.

So, Trump got everything he wanted. US boys out, a stable border region and no massacre. Beyond that, and to paraphrase Trump regarding Turkish/Syrian/Russian forces now in the area: "There is a lot of sand there for them to play with, it's no longer our problem".

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Apparently, and according to the Syrian Democratic Council, the Kurds are ok with leaving the bordering territories.

So... that's fairly encouraging.

disclaimer: this is not a praise aimed at Trump.

 

[Mordoror]

But... but Trump!

Turkey suspends Syria offensive, will end assault if Kurdish forces withdraw: Pence - France 24

Turkey suspends Syria offensive, will end assault if Kurdish forces withdraw: Pence

www.france24.com

That being said, here is the nuance:



The SDF was not represented at the talks between Washington and Ankara, and have not yet commented on the developments, but let's hope they will accept it.

*can't wait to see how the Dems will spin that one though...*

There is nothing to spin, the proposal is as dumb as its emitter.
Basicaly it asks the kurds to leave their positions so grant victory to the turkish army and its arabophone militia.
Not gonna happen.
I dont have to wait to see how Trumpy will spin this one "i made a proposal. Greatest deal ever deserving Nobel Price. Kurds refused. Stupid. Not wise unlike me. Bad for them. They should have accepted. They would have been great again"

 

[Mordoror]

Of course the turks are stopping their attack.
They got with minimal loses exactly what they wanted : a 30 km depth buffer area served on a plate by Pence.
What they arenot able to seize by force (apparently the campaign on the ground is not as easy as it seemed) was handef to them by US administration.
If the kurds comply (which is far from sure)
The third player has reared his head and Russia has proposed to overwatch kurdish forces removal.
But has also renewed the necessity of full Syrian territory integrity (as the syrian news agency has declared too)
Winners in the process:
Turkey and its "hell of good guy" -paging Trump- Erdogan
Russia
Assad who would gey back with minimal spending a significant part of its territory and new integrated forces (part of YPG becoming SAA)

Losers: the kurds
And US credibility toward any actual or future ally

 

[riderboy]

Nothing has changed, Trump had people who were totally opposed to our presence in Syria OUTRAGED that he was pulling US troops out. Haters gonna hate, nothing new there. The people that support Trump judge him by his actions and the results he gets. And he gets results, often in spite of every conceivable roadblock possible being thrown up in his path. He never forgets the "forgotten voter" that doesn't live in exclusive gated communities on the East and West coast. He's hard to defend personally sometimes, but he wasn't elected to be our Pastor or a "nice guy". Quite frankly after the shenanigans that have come to light vis á vis Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and the Obama FBI, DOJ and intelligence organizations, Trump looks better and better every day.

 

[Chazman]

Nothing has changed, Trump had people who were totally opposed to our presence in Syria OUTRAGED that he was pulling US troops out. Haters gonna hate, nothing new there. The people that support Trump judge him by his actions and the results he gets. And he gets results, often in spite of every conceivable roadblock possible being thrown up in his path. He never forgets the "forgotten voter" that doesn't live in exclusive gated communities on the East and West coast. He's hard to defend personally sometimes, but he wasn't elected to be our Pastor or a "nice guy". Quite frankly after the shenanigans that have come to light vis á vis Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and the Obama FBI, DOJ and intelligence organizations, Trump looks better and better every day.

But....but....

Think of the billions in lost contracts to rebuild Syria that people like Biden's brother will lose now! Oh, that's okay. I'm sure the Russians and Iranians will chip in.

 

[colin traveller]

Trump .....put him in his place .....

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[riderboy]

No offence, Ivan, but that's a dumb thing to say. He who extinguishes a fire that he has started doesn't deserve praise. Especially not now, now that Turkey has secured its goals and hundreds of people have died a needless death. This whole clusterfuck was entirely preventable.

Preventable? In the Middle East? Do tell. Perhaps instead of 100 American soldiers in harms way there could have been 100 German soldiers in harms way? Is that why you mean by 'preventable'? One person hardly mentioned by the Trump haters is the man whose reactionary foreign policy got us into Syria in the first place and who actually started this fire by sending US troops there, Barack Obama. Trump got stuck with putting it out. I also think one should perhaps look to the man who is really responsible for those deaths, Erdogan.

 

[colin traveller]

Where is the other NATO Members ... I know looking the other way taking a back seat .. Whilst they prefer Trump to be made the bad guy when NATO Itself a collective group .. has a serious lack of members willing to stand up and be counted . And has any array of Syrians currently in Europe actually grateful that ISIS has been curtailed ? NOT SEEN ONE ARTICLE OF THEM SHOWN THERE APPRECIATION never mind a video segment .

 

[Mordoror]

Preventable? In the Middle East? Do tell. Perhaps instead of 100 American soldiers in harms way there could have been 100 German soldiers in harms way? Is that why you mean by 'preventable'? One person hardly mentioned by the Trump haters is the man whose reactionary foreign policy got us into Syria in the first place and who actually started this fire by sending US troops there, Barack Obama. Trump got stuck with putting it out. I also think one should perhaps look to the man who is really responsible for those deaths, Erdogan.

This obsession with Obama. That's a borderline mental disease.
Forgetting that the whole mess was initiated by the GW2 and Bush administration. From then every other US administration is trying to patch the gangrene. And yes they do it very poorly.
But the very first culprits are Cheney, Rumseld, Wolfowitz, Bush.......

 

[Mordoror]

Where is the other NATO Members ... I know looking the other way taking a back seat .. Whilst they prefer Trump to be made the bad guy when NATO Itself a collective group .. has a serious lack of members willing to stand up and be counted . And has any array of Syrians currently in Europe actually grateful that ISIS has been curtailed ? NOT SEEN ONE ARTICLE OF THEM SHOWN THERE APPRECIATION never mind a video segment .

NATO member is already here you know, it is invading Syria....and it is called Turkey.
Your own guys (around 200 British SF and JTAC) were on the ground and put in harm ways by the surprise Trump's move (surprise including for his own troops, they didn't had even a time to prepare removal and had to bomb their own ammo dump)
As well as 500 french soldiers (SF and artillery group) that were also put in harm ways in the same manner.

 

[Mordoror]

Seriously ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-on-turks-and-kurds-like-two-kids-in-a-lot-youve-got-to-let-them-fight/2019/10/17/bf37283c-f0eb-11e9-b648-76bcf86eb67e_story.html

Trump on Turks and Kurds: ‘Like two kids in a lot, you’ve got to let them fight’

“Like two kids in a lot, you’ve got to let them fight and then you pull them apart,” Trump said. He marveled at the fighting, saying “it was pretty vicious,” and adding, “It was nasty. … It’s not fun having bullets going all over the place.”

Is this guy having a minimum of empathy ?
We are not talking about a kid fight. But a war that led to already 200-300 death, hundred of wounded on both sides and several thousand people fleeing their homes
A kid fight ??....

 

[Royal]

The orange one gets more idiotic by the day.

I did like Gen Mattis's comment about the draft dodging genius in chief though...

'He earned his spurs from a doctor': Gen James Mattis mocks Trump

Ex-defence secretary responds to US president calling him ‘the world’s most overrated general’

www.theguardian.com