Photos Ukraine Vs Russia 2014-2021

I'm not sure what you're implying. Ukraine is so to speak the "backyard" of everything in the region, including Russia, Poland, Romania, Hungary.
But when it comes to "playing nuclear chicken", none of these states (aside from Russia) can play the game. All they can rely upon are their allies either in western Europe or US that can provide the nuclear-card to partake in this nuclear-chicken game.
The only problem, is that by delegating the nuclear-chicken card to these eastern NATO members, western Europe and US are risking themselves to pay the full price of the defeat, if their delegates lose the game against Russia. In which case, there is definitely no equal stakes here. The actual players aren't the delegates, it's the western powers vs. Russia. So the question remains, who is willing to place the highest bets? Those who are the highest affected? Or those who are only using the eastern playing field as a means of waging proxy conflicts?
Obviously, those closest to the fireworks have the highest stakes in the game.
Yes, it's what I meant - Ukraine is not the backyard of Russia (or not the whole country) as Russia would like to see it and play with it. And what I'm implying here is that Russia is on the agressive side with a bully stance "saying" to US/UK/FR (?) exatly what you mentioned, in short: "your're not going to go into this mess for your little friends out ther, are ya"?

It's a dangerous game if you ask me, and this is exactly how World War I started.
 
Yes, it's what I meant - Ukraine is not the backyard of Russia (or not the whole country) as Russia would like to see it and play with it. And what I'm implying here is that Russia is on the agressive side with a bully stance "saying" to US/UK/FR (?) exatly what you mentioned, in short: "your're not going to go into this mess for your little friends out ther, are ya"?

It's a dangerous game if you ask me, and this is exactly how World War I started.

It's definitely far more complicated than Russia bullying little poor Ukraine and showing the middle finger to the western political cabal. At the very least, today's events cannot be isolated from the rest of history and assumed as though the status quo can be forever preserved because it has existed for merely 30 years up until this point. 30 years is nothing in the context of geopolitics.
But the bad news is - is that even this supposed "status quo" of power balance in eastern Europe which supposedly "existed" for the past 30 years, actually didn't. Because even though the borders of nations there haven't really changed, the borders of political/military alliances have changed, and continue to change at an extremely fast pace. So in a way, you could say there was no "peace", or rather, no "settled" balance of power in eastern Europe at any moment since the collapse of the USSR.
It is of course very easy to assume that there was a balance of sort, and then assume that suddenly, out of nowhere, Russia developed a boner for war, despite encouraging the exact opposite for most of its modern history.

Even though many here will disagree with me, I personally am a proponent of the idea that borders of "political bodies" (aka states, alliances, etc.) are primarily decided by nature, rather than by free will of any particular group or set of interests. And whenever free will attempts to experiment with or imposes borders that are fundamentally unnatural, war becomes inevitable, as nature inevitably pushes the scales back into a balancing state. The stand-off between Russia and NATO is not in of itself a stand-off between Putin's Russia and the "liberal west". It's a stand-off between a "western vector of power" vs. the "eastern vector of power", it existed always and will persist always, regardless of what ideologies, leaders, resources are in question. And the reality of the past 30 years, is that the western vector has been actively pushing eastwards. The east may very well spring-back into its natural state, be that today, or tomorrow, or in a 100 years, but it will inevitably happen.

So then the question is, can something be done to avoid shaking the boat of balance in Europe? And if it can, who should attempt it?
I know western hawks, including followers of Zbigniew Brzeziński, assume that you can avoid this push-and-pull between the western and eastern vectors of power, by simply eliminating the existence of one of the vectors, in this case, eliminating the existence of the eastern vector, either by breaking up the USSR, or by ideas like the one below:

1618431464956.webp


It is, of course, no surprise, that Russian strategists and ideologs see this prospect, and can imagine a future where the Russian Federation, be it by the pressure of sanctions, political upheavals, financial crises, arms races, etc. would potentially segregate into smaller territories, similar to how the USSR did; and it is natural that they feel the potentiality of this threat and constantly keep it in mind whenever they form their foreign strategy and narratives.

However, my opinion is, my understanding of the nature of geopolitics expects the existence of a western and eastern vector of power, and even if Russia's vector is somehow destroyed under any pretexts or circumstances available, it will merely, long-term, result in resurfacing at a later time. Thus making this attempt of pushing beyond the limits of a power balance between two sides ultimately a futile effort in the long run. The only thing it can achieve is human suffering which otherwise could (perhaps) be avoided.

The Ukrainian crisis is not the start of a "battle" of any sort, it's just one of the many phases of a bigger battle that has been raging for the past 30 years between the east and west.
 
It's definitely far more complicated than Russia bullying little poor Ukraine and showing the middle finger to the western political cabal. At the very least, today's events cannot be isolated from the rest of history and assumed as though the status quo can be forever preserved because it has existed for merely 30 years up until this point. 30 years is nothing in the context of geopolitics.
But the bad news is - is that even this supposed "status quo" of power balance in eastern Europe which supposedly "existed" for the past 30 years, actually didn't. Because even though the borders of nations there haven't really changed, the borders of political/military alliances have changed, and continue to change at an extremely fast pace. So in a way, you could say there was no "peace", or rather, no "settled" balance of power in eastern Europe at any moment since the collapse of the USSR.
It is of course very easy to assume that there was a balance of sort, and then assume that suddenly, out of nowhere, Russia developed a boner for war, despite encouraging the exact opposite for most of its modern history.

Even though many here will disagree with me, I personally am a proponent of the idea that borders of "political bodies" (aka states, alliances, etc.) are primarily decided by nature, rather than by free will of any particular group or set of interests. And whenever free will attempts to experiment with or imposes borders that are fundamentally unnatural, war becomes inevitable, as nature inevitably pushes the scales back into a balancing state. The stand-off between Russia and NATO is not in of itself a stand-off between Putin's Russia and the "liberal west". It's a stand-off between a "western vector of power" vs. the "eastern vector of power", it existed always and will persist always, regardless of what ideologies, leaders, resources are in question. And the reality of the past 30 years, is that the western vector has been actively pushing eastwards. The east may very well spring-back into its natural state, be that today, or tomorrow, or in a 100 years, but it will inevitably happen.

So then the question is, can something be done to avoid shaking the boat of balance in Europe? And if it can, who should attempt it?
I know western hawks, including followers of Zbigniew Brzeziński, assume that you can avoid this push-and-pull between the western and eastern vectors of power, by simply eliminating the existence of one of the vectors, in this case, eliminating the existence of the eastern vector, either by breaking up the USSR, or by ideas like the one below:

View attachment 297314

It is, of course, no surprise, that Russian strategists and ideologs see this prospect, and can imagine a future where the Russian Federation, be it by the pressure of sanctions, political upheavals, financial crises, arms races, etc. would potentially segregate into smaller territories, similar to how the USSR did; and it is natural that they feel the potentiality of this threat and constantly keep it in mind whenever they form their foreign strategy and narratives.

However, my opinion is, my understanding of the nature of geopolitics expects the existence of a western and eastern vector of power, and even if Russia's vector is somehow destroyed under any pretexts or circumstances available, it will merely, long-term, result in resurfacing at a later time. Thus making this attempt of pushing beyond the limits of a power balance between two sides ultimately a futile effort in the long run. The only thing it can achieve is human suffering which otherwise could (perhaps) be avoided.

The Ukrainian crisis is not the start of a "battle" of any sort, it's just one of the many phases of a bigger battle that has been raging for the past 30 years between the east and west.
I know you wont agree with me, but maybe EU is China, and maybe Russia is Taiwan?

There is an inevitability, based on people getting a choice, they seem to be leaning more to EU than otherwise.

Ukraine is stuck in the middle, wants to be more EU, to get $$, but russia wont want that, wont want a success for Ukraine, and wont want to lose a physical buffer, nor a potential battleground that isnt Russian soil.

You seem to suggest that the existence of Russia in its current state is an unmoveable object, given the History, thats hard to agree with.

Also if no Russia, or Russia 'part' of EU, then the boundary moves to Russia/China.

Also if Russia imploded, for whatever reason, I think China has plans for the backyard......
 
Ukraine is stuck in the middle, wants to be more EU, to get $$

Not really, it is more like Brexit, some want others don't and now the criminals who usurped the power in Kiev by force with support from EU and US are trying to exterminate those who disagree with them.
 
Not really, it is more like Brexit, some want others don't and now the criminals who usurped the power in Kiev by force with support from EU and US are trying to exterminate those who disagree with them.

Which is not surprising at all, because every coup/revolution has very high chances of provoking a civil war, as it sends waves of tense disagreement across the entire society. Overthrowing the ruling class isn't particularly "democratic" in any sense of the word. Just a way of violently silencing one half of society in favour of empowering another half. (or even a minority in most cases)
 
And don't forget that many civilians have received Russian passports. If the Ukrainian military starts killing Russian citizens, then the Russian army will simply have to protect them. And we will see a new peace enforcement operation, like in Georgia in 2008.

And friends from NATO will not defend Ukraine (they did not defend Georgia), they will express their deep concern and that's it.

Then there will be sanctions, debates in the UN, but this will not fix the situation. It is easier for Ukraine to let go of the rebellious territories and start developing its country for the benefit of the remaining Ukrainian citizens.


Throwing passports outside your borders don't give you any jurisdiction over foreign territory. Sure, it can be used to make bizarre demands towards other countries, but no sane government will respect that.
Also, about the "combat experience" that Russian fanboys love to brag about as proof of the imminent triumph against Ukraine:
More than 60 killed for 6 day, 250 wounded and air force casualties against a tiny country (Georgia 2008).
In Syria the heavy weight is carried by Iranian mercenaries on the ground, while Russia is showing off air force strength with zero anti-air capabilities at the opposing side. OMG, so impressive!
In conclusion: posting such miserable "proxy wars" as comparable with the current situation is stupid as f#ck. You guys don't even know what "proxy war" means, and spoiler alert - Russia is not experiencing even 20% of the full extend to that term.
 
Throwing passports outside your borders don't give you any jurisdiction over foreign territory. Sure, it can be used to make bizarre demands towards other countries, but no sane government will respect that.

Since when are international relations based on respect? Which hole did you climb out of?

Also, about the "combat experience" that Russian fanboys love to brag about as proof of the imminent triumph against Ukraine:
More than 60 killed for 6 day, 250 wounded and air force casualties against a tiny country (Georgia 2008).

This statement is playing like a broken record for several years now on multiple social networks, usually sung by people who are unaware that 2008 happened pre-military reforms. And even so, did Russia suffer a defeat in Georgia?

In Syria the heavy weight is carried by Iranian mercenaries on the ground, while Russia is showing off air force strength with zero anti-air capabilities at the opposing side.

Are you seriously implying that Iranian mercenaries are better trained than the Russian army?

OMG, so impressive!

You're always very emotional, and very cringe. And that's an impressive personality to have indeed.

In conclusion: posting such miserable "proxy wars" as comparable with the current situation is stupid as f#ck. You guys don't even know what "proxy war" means, and spoiler alert - Russia is not experiencing even 20% of the full extend to that term.

Hulk angery, hulk smash.
 
Ukraine will be to Islamic state like Daesh state and/or part of New Ottoman Empire in Kalifah Erdogan!

Kiev regime behave like ayatollahs regime already, there is not much difference between chants "death to America, death to Israel" and "death to Moskovites, death to separatists".
 
In latest news:
1 Turkish diplomatic sources said that the planned passage of a first American ship on April 14 had not taken place. According to the state-run Anadolu news agency, which quotes other Turkish officials, the deployment scheduled for April 14 and 15 has been canceled and Ankara has not been informed of a possible postponement.

2 Biden, in a phone call on Tuesday, proposed a summit of the estranged leaders to tackle a raft of disputes and told Moscow to reduce tensions over Ukraine triggered by a Russian military build-up.
The Kremlin said on Wednesday that a summit between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his U.S. counterpart Joe Biden would be contingent on U.S. behaviour after reportedly telling Washington to scrap a plan to impose new sanctions on Russia.
 
So many opinions...

I prefer peace, but if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
 
All this geopolitical dump on our common planet will continue until the "little green men" come to us. And maybe then all of us on the planet will understand that we are one civilization, and if someone standing next to us has one head, two legs, two arms and two eyes, then this is a friend, not an enemy.

In the meantime, we stock up on canned food, antibiotics and ammunition ... And we are waiting for what will come out of this whole dog fight.
 
The whole thing you wrote is extremely far-fetched.

Firstly, I'm no expert of course, but I would assume Russia had a far greater reliance on satellite navigation when it came to its operation in Syria, taking into account the scope, unpredictability of the warzone, and daily air missions numbering in hundreds per day if I am not mistaken. It did not seem that US "hyper advanced technology" was able to stop Russia from partaking in large operations far from its own borders. But apparently it can stop Russia from operating on its own former territories?

GLONASS malfunctioning - "maybe because of Ukraine", but "maybe not because of Syria" is just weird.

Hmm, you made some little related connections just to feel a bit relieved by mixing the things and murking the waters. Taking down Glonass and the only geostationary spy satellite was a warning signal to stop the advance in Ukraine, which seem to be fully understood at that time and shows the disparity in tech possibilities between the two countries.

I doubt that Russia rely that much on Glonass in Syria and that US deemed necessary to shut down the entire network there. Beside that Israelis run free around whenever they want and bomb the place as they please, and US fired a big bunch of Tomahawk's and even announced that before, yet none was reliable shot down by the famous Russian AA systems (yeah, I know the usual reply, they are"monkey models" for export, operated by unskilled Arabs, no "true" Russian operated system was involved there etc etc).

The Russian recon systems didn't seem to work well either when they send some units to attack an American and Kurd, iirc, position, and were moped down by air power and artillery strikes from nearby position. with supposedly hundreds of casualties.
Russia "flooding" the internet with "Novorussia" maps to me seems nothing more nor less than the true nature of the internet itself. In part 4chan-inspired culture, in part me pushing a few maps myself online, because I was quite into Photoshop and Illustrator back then.
Except they tried to make them real on the field too, looked exactly like a concentrated image war done by now famous troll farms. There were visible moves up to Odessa which unfortunately for those, ended bad for some Russophiles (and where people from nearby Transnestria send there to help the movement, but Ukraine is just as guilty for helping that strip of land to survive all that time until they get the same treatment as Moldova and Georgia.
With regard to nukes, you conveniently left out Russia's advancements in hypersonic technology.
Those don't have enough range to threat US for example, afaik, and others are in the same ballpark, including US. Except that Americans are far and above when it comes to stealth, electronic warfare and airpower
Ah okay, I should have started by reading the final paragraph in your post. Not worth responding ?

So to summarize your post:
1. USA is extremely advanced in shadow technology and flying triangles that destroy satellites.
2. Russia and USA have equal stakes in risking nuclear war over a territory that was traditionally Russia's backyard for hundreds of years.
3. Something something about Putin being a gang-leader.

Gee, bad man disagree with you, better ignore him and he will go away, right.

Anyway

1-yes, they are extremely advanced. I don't think those triangles had destroy any satellite, those were the B-21 bombers that were flying before to be officially announced. A fleet of those might come over the north pole, in a polar night, undetected, armed with stealth cruise missiles, and take down any strategic target (like silo missiles and whatnot) in Siberia before Russia realize whats going on. While Russian satellite network is down, due to "solar flares" or something.

This is the level of disparity now, and that is increasingly going bigger by the time. The window of oportunity for Russia to hold on strategic balance is closing fast

2- thats increasingly unbalanced and not in Russias favor. Not long from now the ICBM will be obsolete. Sure, you can add to them maneuvrable warheads, but first you need to be able to deploy them before the main missile is destroyed, and then even those might be eventually intercepted.
Also Russia is an empire made of various pieces of land and various populations added to it over time. They have all rights to become independent and follow a policy that is not tied to Russia, just as much as Russia wants to follow her own internal and independent policy and not be squashed by US, China or EU. Following your logic, Russia should be a Mongol or Tatar province since they ruled it for hundreds of years.

3- wait, you say he is not, you know, with all that oligarch circles and KGB and becoming extraordinary whealty and killing all the oposition to rule like a dictator? If so, yeah, better we ignore eachother as I don't have time to argue to putinbots that stay all day on the internet to spew their propaganda. I hate that just as much as some of the "politically corectness" propaganda ridiculousness I sometime seen
 
Yesterday UAF shelled Donetsk (kievskiy district) , two houses were damaged and 1 civilian killed(man, 1962 year of birth)
4628fea402396cacc14045db9a3a7a5e2a24106022f083c6971f5eef25f55cb6.webp
 
Hmm, you made some little related connections just to feel a bit relieved by mixing the things and murking the waters. Taking down Glonass and the only geostationary spy satellite was a warning signal to stop the advance in Ukraine, which seem to be fully understood at that time and shows the disparity in tech possibilities between the two countries.

This whole argument is based on a false premise that Russia was interested in continuing its advance outside of Donbass region.
Crimea was taken without firing a single bullet because the population there was overwhelmingly pro-Russian.
With regard to the rest of Ukraine this is not the case, with Donetsk and Luhansk representing the most pro-Russian cities in the entirety of Ukraine's mainland.
What exactly was Russia supposed to do with occupied territories the majority of the population of which does not accept its presence there? That is precisely what prevented further incursion. Again, as I have mentioned in one of my earlier posts, "invading" is not as simple as overwhelming the enemy with your military prowess. A lot of logistical and even political factors influence the outcome far greater than the military operation itself.

I doubt that Russia rely that much on Glonass in Syria and that US deemed necessary to shut down the entire network there. Beside that Israelis run free around whenever they want and bomb the place as they please, and US fired a big bunch of Tomahawk's and even announced that before, yet none was reliable shot down by the famous Russian AA systems (yeah, I know the usual reply, they are"monkey models" for export, operated by unskilled Arabs, no "true" Russian operated system was involved there etc etc).

A massive bombing campaign that requires not only complex coordination between aviation and on-ground reconnaissance, but also the generation of battle plans for SAA forces does not require high reliance satellite navigation, but invading a few regions on Russia's borders does?

With regard to shooting down US or Israel missiles, the more logical response I would say is with regard to political commitment on Russia's behalf to engage those targets. What would be the political implications for Russia, if it, lets say, fully denied Israel's ability to project its military power in the Middle East? What would be USA's response to Russia fully denying USA its ability to project military force in the Middle East? Would it result in the US backing off, or the US sending an even bigger barrage of missiles in response, thus further escalating tensions?

The Russian recon systems didn't seem to work well either when they send some units to attack an American and Kurd, iirc, position, and were moped down by air power and artillery strikes from nearby position. with supposedly hundreds of casualties.

This BS again.
Those were PMCs, not SOF. And it's quite questionable to what degree their activity was sanctioned by the RU command. Going in naked with no air support, no exit strategy, isn't something military operations are known for.

Except they tried to make them real on the field too, looked exactly like a concentrated image war done by now famous troll farms. There were visible moves up to Odessa which unfortunately for those, ended bad for some Russophiles (and where people from nearby Transnestria send there to help the movement, but Ukraine is just as guilty for helping that strip of land to survive all that time until they get the same treatment as Moldova and Georgia.

You need to lurk more, mate. You don't seem to understand the internet at all.

Those don't have enough range to threat US for example, afaik, and others are in the same ballpark, including US. Except that Americans are far and above when it comes to stealth, electronic warfare and airpower

Of course they are, especially when 99% of all of their wars in the past few decades were against extremely advanced enemies that run in anti-gravitational sandals. Meanwhile still waiting for US Patriot systems to learn how to fire missiles vertically...

1-yes, they are extremely advanced. I don't think those triangles had destroy any satellite, those were the B-21 bombers that were flying before to be officially announced. A fleet of those might come over the north pole, in a polar night, undetected, armed with stealth cruise missiles, and take down any strategic target (like silo missiles and whatnot) in Siberia before Russia realize whats going on. While Russian satellite network is down, due to "solar flares" or something.

This is the level of disparity now, and that is increasingly going bigger by the time. The window of oportunity for Russia to hold on strategic balance is closing fast


2- thats increasingly unbalanced and not in Russias favor. Not long from now the ICBM will be obsolete. Sure, you can add to them maneuvrable warheads, but first you need to be able to deploy them before the main missile is destroyed, and then even those might be eventually intercepted.
Also Russia is an empire made of various pieces of land and various populations added to it over time. They have all rights to become independent and follow a policy that is not tied to Russia, just as much as Russia wants to follow her own internal and independent policy and not be squashed by US, China or EU. Following your logic, Russia should be a Mongol or Tatar province since they ruled it for hundreds of years.


3- wait, you say he is not, you know, with all that oligarch circles and KGB and becoming extraordinary whealty and killing all the oposition to rule like a dictator? If so, yeah, better we ignore eachother as I don't have time to argue to putinbots that stay all day on the internet to spew their propaganda. I hate that just as much as some of the "politically corectness" propaganda ridiculousness I sometime seen

 
Which is not surprising at all, because every coup/revolution has very high chances of provoking a civil war, as it sends waves of tense disagreement across the entire society. Overthrowing the ruling class isn't particularly "democratic" in any sense of the word. Just a way of violently silencing one half of society in favour of empowering another half. (or even a minority in most cases)
It was not half and while we can agree there was support from EU/USA for the reforms in Ukraine, these parties never actively engaged militarily in the conlfict. Unlike Russia. The influence/support is not symmetrical and that includes factual caues of loss of life. But thanks to those actions, ironically, the national consciousness of Ukrainian nation was accelerated, and tbh, I don't know how Russia imagines Ukraine to be back under its sphere of influence. And another paradox is that while Russia wants Ukraine to be under it because it is Russia's buffer zone (which is historically understandable) it acutally made it smaller and pushed Ukraine into the western sphere of influence.
 
It was not half and while we can agree there was support from EU/USA for the reforms in Ukraine, these parties never actively engaged militarily in the conlfict. Unlike Russia. The influence/support is not symmetrical

Because the balance of power in the region is not symmetrical either. As I said in my previous response (before the one you quoted) the Ukrainian crisis cannot be understood within Ukrainian borders only. It's a small fragment of a larger and longer conflict which evolved from USSR's collapse, and was escalating with every new "revolution".

But thanks to those actions, ironically, the national consciousness of Ukrainian nation was accelerated, and tbh, I don't know how Russia imagines Ukraine to be back under its sphere of influence.

It was accelerated along with Ukraine's internal political crisis, impotence, and dead-ends for the nation's prospective economic and political future. I think we are at a point where Ukraine's populations' view of Russia became irrelevant, as Ukraine by itself moved from being a seemingly stable geopolitical entity of east Europe into an extremely volatile actor who has no plan other than to recycle the spoils of Maidan revolt.

Since 2015 it was already fairly evident that Russia won't be investing any effort into "changing minds" (nor "charming" anyone, as it is fairly futile in an Ukraine where extreme anti-Russian propaganda reigns supreme) and will instead wait for the thing to implode on itself, when UA population's main concern will shift from external enemies and "Heroiams Slava!" to a realization that their statehood has collapsed.

it actually made it smaller and pushed Ukraine into the western sphere of influence.

Whomever pushed Ukraine from Russia wasn't Russia. This goal was the main point behind US/EU involvement. But like I said, Ukraine's mental/spiritual alignment is irrelevant at this point.
 
IMG_20210415_154246_701.jpg


first 2 i don't know,

south front - https://southfront.org/ sometimes they are translating articles from lostarmour

news front - was mainly yt channel from donetsk (run by locals ) their yt channel was terminated few month ago without any notifications or strikes

They are making excellent reportages from the frontlines +documentaries
for example

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What 's democrasy ? - power of democrats . and what's free media? - only media with permission
 
Whomever pushed Ukraine from Russia wasn't Russia. This goal was the main point behind US/EU involvement. But like I said, Ukraine's mental/spiritual alignment is irrelevant at this point.

Yeah, by actually invading Ukraine Russia pushed it out not the other way around. The whole concept of western society and principles on which the EU (and US for the most part) is based was the driver of social unrest during the 2014 events, not someone's involvement. Yes there was a lot of effort and support from the EU but it was consequence of those events not the spark that triggered it. To put it simple - Ukrainians wanted to live more like their western neighbours rather than those in the east. It's funny because considering the fact how many wealthy Russians buy real estates, assets and educate their children in the west making the same factual choice as the Ukrainians did.

And yes, what Russia does (as in many other places around the region- Abkhasia, Transnistria, Georgia, South Ossetia and in a way - Armenia) is the inflammation of the so called "Russkyi Mir" which means it is deeply interested in fueling the internal conflict in a bordering country so it does not fall into western sphere of influence beacause Russia itself cannot offer anything which is roughly comparable to the "western style of life". So in Ukraine it is not an internal conflict that burning only by itself. And to be honest, this is quite understandable from the Russian perspective beacuse it wants the buffer zone to exist and to be as large as possible.

The clandestine actions of main world powers is another story and for sure they there was a lot of influence from all interested parties.
 

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