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[Gordus]

Georgia:
For the purpose of increasing national defence capacities, the Georgian government requested 410 Javelin missiles and 72 launch units, as well as 10 BSTs and up to 70 simulated rounds and related material in support of the program, from the United States, for a total summ of $75 million.

The US State Department approves the notion reasoning it would not shift the mil balance in the region but only strenghten Georgia's capabiliy to defend itself. The proposal was sent to Congress on 17 November. Georgia's Deputy Defence Minister reassured in an interview with Azerbaijani press that weapons purchised from the United States, including the Javelin would only serve as deterrent and defence, not to attack other countries.

Georgia already posesses a number of Soviet ATGM weapons, however the Javelin would be the first fire-and-forget type missile with multiple launch options.

Sources:
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/georgia-javelin-missiles-and-command-launch-units
https://sputniknews.com/military/201711211059278916-usa-javelin-missile-sale-georgia/
https://www.upi.com/State-Dept-approves-potential-Javelin-missile-sale-to-Georgia/8371511279229/
http://en.apa.az/world-news/europe/...-u-s-against-any-country-deputy-minister.html

Let's see where this goes.

This still has to be concluded yet.

 

[Gordus]

Reforms have been a constant and problematic topic for the Georgian Armed Forces as they were either half hearted, inconsistant or simply all over the place for most of the time but since 2012-13 determined, consistent and straight steps have been taken even in the face of financial deficits.

Now that 2018 is to mark the beginning of an era of proper reforms with proper US assistance, many things may change in the coming years. For people who are unaware, the Georgian military is, for the first time since 1991, receiving proper training, preparation and equipment to face threats from other military forces and potential adversaries in the region, replacing its heavy peacekeeping focused training that has been conducted until now.

The "Georgia Defence Readiness Program" ( originaly 2016 - 2019 )

So the ongoing 'GDRP' was to officialy end in 2019 but may continue until 2021 which seems plausible as the program was supposed to begin last year but will start rolling in 2018. The US is providing financial aid of about $100 million over the course of two years. One of the most interesting parts is the MOD's claim that some meager $9 million will be alocated to the modernisation of air and naval forces, which seems rather unrealistic if not slightly delusional unless its realy just about modernising and re-equipping all existing assets and so that they are operational. Even then, it wouldn't be a long term solution.

Link: http://www.messenger.com.ge/issues/4082_february_20_2018/4082_edit.htm

In conjunction with said program, the spendings on weapon acquirement has increased from a mere 5% in 2015 to over 20% in 2018, which exceeded the goal set for actualy 2020, but this may just be a thing for 2018.

The long term aquisition of arms including air defence systems is layed out for 2018 to 2023.

Link: http://civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=30873

The newest development is the construction of basicaly a second Hohenfels ( Joint Multinational Readiness Center ) near Georgia's capital, which is to be completed somewhere in May 2018. It will most likely eliminate the necessity of training troops on German soil, but also add an aditional training center for NATO and allied forces, probably also attract neighbouring militaries to participate namely Armenia and Azerbaijan, which is a terrific idea for sharing experience, tactics and operating methods, also improve interoperability.

Link: https://jam-news.net/?p=86170

2018 has also been declared as "Year of Logistics" and for that the most demanded specialized country in that area, Austria has recently proposed their support, which would greatly improve logistics issues that seem very apparent in the GAF. Proper logistics win wars.

Note:

It would be cool if the thread was restricted to facts mostly and not unconfirmed or debunked claims, such as the nonexistent acquirement of Ukrainian Oplots or the constantly brought up air defence aquisitions from France, which realy nobody knows anything about, not even the majority of government officials, and that will remain so for quite some time ..... and ofc that all news etc are thrown here and not the photo thread

 

[Gordus]

MOD visit to military elements in the region of Adjara. Reserves and the GSOF naval component will receive upgrades as part of ongoing reforms.

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Georgian Defense Minister Levan Izoria visited military units in the Adjara region. The minister got acquainted with the situation of several subdivisions. Izoria personally briefed the officers on reform plans and the ongoing process. He emphasized the importance of the Reserve System Reform and Defense Readiness Program.
According to Izoria, new locations and infrastructure will be created in the region, for reserve and special operations forces.
Within the framework of the planned monitoring, the minister visited the 101st Light Infantry Battalion of 10th Cadre Brigade, 31st battalion of the 3rd Infantry Brigade and special operations forces naval detachment.
The defence minister will visit and monitor all military units during the year.

 

[Gordus]

Ukrainian armor upgrades are hands down the best looking ones. I wished we would buy some of that equipment.

 

[berkut76]

Ukrainian armor upgrades are hands down the best looking ones. I wished we would buy some of that equipment.

Ukrainian MOD can't afford to buy them. Right now, pretty much every T-64 is getting an upgrade, but no noticeable visible changes. However, internal changes are significant with at least a new communication equipment suite. With Thai contract completed, Ukrainian Obornprom promised to start deliveries of Oplots to the Ukrainian armed forces this year.

 

[Gordus]

Yeah, I figured. It's kind of understandable when the country is at war. But I really do hope when things get solved / stabilized that we get some of that upgraded UA hardware. GAF is really in dire need of new equipment. Decently upgraded Soviet ground tech will do just fine in our case.

 

[BravoZulu]

Ukraine:

Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and French Minister for European and Foreign Affairs Jean-Yves Le Drian have signed an agreement on the purchase of 55 helicopters produced by Airbus Helicopters for the needs of the Ukrainian Internal Affairs Ministry. The Ministry plans to receive helicopters of three models, the H145, H125 and H225, which will complement Ukraine's Mi-8 helicopters. The French-produced helicopters will help operation of the State Service for Emergency Situations, the National Guard, the National Police and the State Border Service of Ukraine. This procurement contract is the largest project between Ukraine and France.
https://defenseindustrydaily.us5.li...25751766a1111efa05&id=afbbf07195&e=7f8166cc3c

 

[berkut76]

Yeah, I figured. It's kind of understandable when the country is at war. But I really do hope when things get solved / stabilized that we get some of that upgraded UA hardware. GAF is really in dire need of new equipment. Decently upgraded Soviet ground tech will do just fine in our case.

I wouldn't count on this, unfortunately. Russians have a habit of escalating things. During the battle for Luhansk(!) Airport, Illovaysk and Debaltsevo cauldrons, Russians used brand new hardware to turn the course of the battle in their favor. Furthermore, Russian upgrades seem to be more comprehensive than at least Ukrainian ones. The main drawback of the Russian modernization is that it's too complex for undertrained personnel to use and take advantage of.

 

[Conhoon]

Yeah, I figured. It's kind of understandable when the country is at war. But I really do hope when things get solved / stabilized that we get some of that upgraded UA hardware. GAF is really in dire need of new equipment. Decently upgraded Soviet ground tech will do just fine in our case.

GAF intends to modernize the T72 which already has or rather to buy new (refurbished) tanks of other types from Ukraine? As far as I remember, Ukraine sold the instrumentation for the production and refurbishment of T72 tanks and restored these capabilities at the turn of 2014/2015. Today Ukraine has many interesting projects (among others, the changed construction of the turrets) also for tanks of the T72 family. Maybe this is good choice for Georgia?

 

[Gordus]

GAF intends to modernize the T72 which already has or rather to buy new (refurbished) tanks of other types from Ukraine? As far as I remember, Ukraine sold the instrumentation for the production and refurbishment of T72 tanks and restored these capabilities at the turn of 2014/2015. Today Ukraine has many interesting projects (among others, the changed construction of the turrets) also for tanks of the T72 family. Maybe this is good choice for Georgia?

No, as far as I know there are no further modernisations planned or considered. They are looking for financially sustainable replacement. What we have right now is barely even operational and that was a massive issue even during the war. Georgia does not have the industrial capability and knowhow to produce tanks. Somehting like that takes many years, proper equipment and a lot of qualified cadres, and we are at very best talking about simply taking a Soviet base ( chassis + engine ) for example T-72 or T-80, and built something fancy around it, supported with state of the art tech. Lazika for example uses the BMP-1 as base. There were rumors that Ukrainian equipment was bought many years ago for study and research purposes, but I've not seen any reliable source or statement to confirm that.

 

[Conhoon]

No, as far as I know there are no further modernisations planned or considered. They are looking for financially sustainable replacement. What we have right now is barely even operational and that was a massive issue even during the war. Georgia does not have the industrial capability and knowhow to produce tanks. Somehting like that takes many years, proper equipment and a lot of qualified cadres, and we are at very best talking about simply taking a Soviet base ( chassis + engine ) for example T-72 or T-80, and built something fancy around it, supported with state of the art tech. Lazika for example uses the BMP-1 as base. There were rumors that Ukrainian equipment was bought many years ago for study and research purposes, but I've not seen any reliable source or statement to confirm that.

You said: "Somehting like that takes many years, the proper equipment, and we are talking very much about the Soviet base (chassis + engine) for example T-72 or T-80, and built something fancy around it, supported with state of the art tech. "

It is not so easy, the rebuilding of the turret may involve rebuilding the chassis (due to different weight distribution). This is advanced project and not something that can be put together in the garage. And T-72 tanks already have - maybe it would be worth to use Ukrainian reactive armor, a new cannon with a more precise stabilization system and new sights. All of this has already been developed in Ukraine (with elements from other countries but collected in the system already in Ukraine). And for this solid ammunition (here the Russians are leading) and will be a good modernization for now. And for the future, unfortunately, we need to save some money and buy tanks of the next generation ... (Poland is in a similar situation and we look with interest at Ukrainian solutions in this area).

 

[Gordus]

It is not so easy, the rebuilding of the turret may involve rebuilding the chassis (due to different weight distribution). This is advanced project and not something that can be put together in the garage.
.

Well that's what I'm saying @Conhoon ....

 

[berkut76]

Poland is in a similar situation and we look with interest at Ukrainian solutions in this area.

Good luck with that. Over the past few years, I've seen Ukrainians create dozens upon dozens of prototypes of different armored vehicles. With an exception of a few models of Joint Light Tactical Vehicles nothing went into even small scale production. Since armored vehicles take a back seat to air defense, air force, and missile development for Ukrainians, unless Obornprom will find foreign buyers for its upgrades, I doubt will be seeing much beyond, the proven BTR-3s, BTR--4s (2nd generation), and T-84 Oplot M. The only exception might be replacing the turrets on BMP-1s and 2s with combat modules already being manufactured for existing vehicles.

Right now, Ukrainian armor tactics doesn't differ much from Panzerwaffe circa 1941 when the Germans encounterd vastly superior Soviet T-34s and KV-1s. The emphasis is on better crew training & communications equipment and coordination with other armor killing assets. Not going to be surprised to see tank hunting units armed with commercial light trucks with ATGMs mounted on them attached to armored units.

 

[Gordus]

Good luck with that. Over the past few years, I've seen Ukrainians create dozens upon dozens of prototypes of different armored vehicles. With an exception of a few models of Joint Light Tactical Vehicles nothing went into even small scale production. Since armored vehicles take a back seat to air defense, air force, and missile development for Ukrainians, unless Obornprom will find foreign buyers for its upgrades, I doubt will be seeing much beyond, the proven BTR-3s, BTR--4s (2nd generation), and T-84 Oplot M. The only exception might be replacing the turrets on BMP-1s and 2s with combat modules already being manufactured for existing vehicles.

Right now, Ukrainian armor tactics doesn't differ much from Panzerwaffe circa 1941 when the Germans encounterd vastly superior Soviet T-34s and KV-1s. The emphasis is on better crew training & communications equipment and coordination with other armor killing assets. Not going to be surprised to see tank hunting units armed with commercial light trucks with ATGMs mounted on them attached to armored units.

That sounds a little too harsh. I'd say the Ukraine can pride itself in being the most consequential with R&D of all the post Soviet countries.

That's normal business and a healthy process. Prototypes serve to test, learn, address flaws and make changes. It's absolutly the same in every country. The US has probably scrapped thousands of proposals, ideas and prototypes. The fact such a process exists in the first place, is a good and progressive thing.

I'm trying to not sound rude, but it really does upset me. Equipment is the least of all problems the UA is suffering. I really hope that at least your military leadership got its s togheter and starts to form some decent 1 to 1 and cohesive tactics and before there is even talk about more advanced manouvers and long term strategy. What I saw in the first few years of this conflict was a complete disaster in terms of handling situations and also made the GAF in 2008 look almost professional, which is quite an achivement. Its great to have a qualified and well trained force, but more importantly the officer pool needs to be very competent as well, and the staff in particular needs smart people who can be trusted with operational autonomy in a campaign instead of politicians taking charge.

Well, light vehicles like that can be pretty effective. Why not. UA doesn't need to resort to commercial ones, you got those types of cars, armored ones. Just mount ATGMs on them. Even Russia mounts ATGMs on their GAZ

 

[Conhoon]

Well that's what I'm saying @Conhoon ....

Forgive @Gordus, I'm just learning English and sometimes it may be that I am discussing with myself because I misinterpreted the intentions of the interlocutor.
I am glad that we are of the same opinion. I tried only to convey that temporarily modification of the T-72s possessed by Georgia is possible and it makes sense at the moment (but in combination with good anti-aircraft defense, reconnaissance and good artillery, because when I observed activities in Ukraine I come to the conclusion that artillery will be long " god of war "- very many losses caused good coordination of reconnaissance and artillery in the expected regions of concentration of troops). And in Ukraine, really interesting solutions to the modernization of armored weapons were created.

 

[Conhoon]

Good luck with that. Over the past few years, I've seen Ukrainians create dozens upon dozens of prototypes of different armored vehicles. With an exception of a few models of Joint Light Tactical Vehicles nothing went into even small scale production. Since armored vehicles take a back seat to air defense, air force, and missile development for Ukrainians, unless Obornprom will find foreign buyers for its upgrades, I doubt will be seeing much beyond, the proven BTR-3s, BTR--4s (2nd generation), and T-84 Oplot M. The only exception might be replacing the turrets on BMP-1s and 2s with combat modules already being manufactured for existing vehicles.

Right now, Ukrainian armor tactics doesn't differ much from Panzerwaffe circa 1941 when the Germans encounterd vastly superior Soviet T-34s and KV-1s. The emphasis is on better crew training & communications equipment and coordination with other armor killing assets. Not going to be surprised to see tank hunting units armed with commercial light trucks with ATGMs mounted on them attached to armored units.

In 2017, Polish Bumar-Łabędy plants presented projects for several variants of modernization of the T-72 tanks, including variants based on Ukrainian solutions. This was proposed to the Polish Ministry of Defense, the analysis is still ongoing. Maybe something will happen. Check also "project Oncilla" - a Ukrainian light armored vehicle that may be manufactured in Poland. Do not underestimate the studies from Ukraine, they were made by really good specialists. There are also some really good things in Poland, many of which, for political or financial reasons, can not enter the army's armaments.

 

[berkut76]

That sounds a little too harsh. I'd say the Ukraine can pride itself in being the most consequential with R&D of all the post Soviet countries.

That's normal business and a healthy process. Prototypes serve to test, learn, address flaws and make changes. It's absolutly the same in every country. The US has probably scrapped thousands of proposals, ideas and prototypes. The fact such a process exists in the first place, is a good and progressive thing.

I'm trying to not sound rude, but it really does upset me. Equipment is the least of all problems the UA is suffering. I really hope that at least your military leadership got its s togheter and starts to form some decent 1 to 1 and cohesive tactics and before there is even talk about more advanced manouvers and long term strategy. What I saw in the first few years of this conflict was a complete disaster in terms of handling situations and also made the GAF in 2008 look almost professional, which is quite an achivement. Its great to have a qualified and well trained force, but more importantly the officer pool needs to be very competent as well, and the staff in particular needs smart people who can be trusted with operational autonomy in a campaign instead of politicians taking charge.

Well, light vehicles like that can be pretty effective. Why not. UA doesn't need to resort to commercial ones, you got those types of cars, armored ones. Just mount ATGMs on them. Even Russia mounts ATGMs on their GAZ

The biggest problem that Ukrainians brought on themselves in 2014 is that they were not psychologically ready to shoot at "Russian brothers".

Funny thing is that despite all of their issues and effective fighting force barely numbering 20,000 they almost routed Russian irregulars, PMCs, and spec ops teams until the Russian military intervened with "combined assault force" in late Summer 2014.

Right now, and actually my assessment coincides with the Russian one, the new breed of young officers is truly excellent from young lieutenants to combat generals. At the same time the quality of the troops they command decreased, some would say drastically compared to the motivated, volunteer force of 2014.

Also, for me, Ukrainian successes in design and manufacture of missiles of all types are countered by disasters like Dozor-B APC and re-badged Chinese ambulances.

 

[berkut76]

In 2017, Polish Bumar-Łabędy plants presented projects for several variants of modernization of the T-72 tanks, including variants based on Ukrainian solutions. This was proposed to the Polish Ministry of Defense, the analysis is still ongoing. Maybe something will happen. Check also "project Oncilla" - a Ukrainian light armored vehicle that may be manufactured in Poland. Do not underestimate the studies from Ukraine, they were made by really good specialists. There are also some really good things in Poland, many of which, for political or financial reasons, can not enter the army's armaments.

It's Dozor-B. Unmitigated disaster so far.

 

[Gordus]

Forgive @Gordus, I'm just learning English and sometimes it may be that I am discussing with myself because I misinterpreted the intentions of the interlocutor.
I am glad that we are of the same opinion. I tried only to convey that temporarily modification of the T-72s possessed by Georgia is possible and it makes sense at the moment (but in combination with good anti-aircraft defense, reconnaissance and good artillery, because when I observed activities in Ukraine I come to the conclusion that artillery will be long " god of war "- very many losses caused good coordination of reconnaissance and artillery in the expected regions of concentration of troops). And in Ukraine, really interesting solutions to the modernization of armored weapons were created.

Aah, okay. Sorry @Conhoon, my apology that I didn't see that. We definitly are on the same page and I do agree that artillery ( unusualy accurate artillery for an insurgency .... and no, that's most certainly not because of commercial drones ) was seemingly one of the primary direct causes of a number of major setbacks for the UA. But really I think ultimately its the result of very carefuly planned and coordinated use of combined arms and tactics involving almost every resources at disposal, and the lack of on the UA's part. That huge rollback in August 2014 would have not happened otherwise, or to that degree at least.

Fitting new armor on the T-72s would def be a great idea. The rest seems good. I bet the Russians even took some notes from the captured ones. The electronics etc were all state of the art from Israel and Poland. Yes, you def need a good combo of all, and I'm glad the GAF is finaly undergoing a process in that direction. Hopefully the UA as well. Things are looking promising.

 

[Gordus]

The biggest problem that Ukrainians brought on themselves in 2014 is that they were not psychologically ready to shoot at "Russian brothers".

Funny thing is that despite all of their issues and effective fighting force barely numbering 20,000 they almost routed Russian irregulars, PMCs, and spec ops teams until the Russian military intervened with "combined assault force" in late Summer 2014.

Don't get me wrong brother, I can see that being a huge issue, and we had that as well, but it was lack of good many things .... in all areas. For start, you don't simply move columns to pre-determinated points and expect matters to magicaly resolve. I hoped that the UA had learned from our mistakes. The fact that goals and strategic objectives are established, is a good start, but the very start of conversation about a plan, one that should include many backup plans because of unpredictability of the situation and ever changing variables .... in conjunction with and consideration of the resources and reserves you have at disposal.

Right now, and actually my assessment coincides with the Russian one, the new breed of young officers is truly excellent from young lieutenants to combat generals. At the same time the quality of the troops they command decreased, some would say drastically compared to the motivated, volunteer force of 2014.

Good thing to hear about the leadership ! as for the combat troops, they should improve over time. I mean it falls back to their nco's and the ones who train them, sergeants - the backbone of an army. If improvements were made there, the troops gonna improve as well. Adopting NATO doctrines is a not a fast process, takes time.

Also, for me, Ukrainian successes in design and manufacture of missiles of all types are countered by disasters like Dozor-B APC and re-badged Chinese ambulances.

Yeah that's unfortunate. But the good thing about it, is that someone's gonna come up with a better and more financialy acceptable idea.

Hm, not trying to promote here, but did you consider buying the armored ones we produce ? maybe because of the situation Ukraine would be offered a discount.