Politics The Biden thread

[Flagg]

I can see this happening. Your robot will pay for humans to do nothing....
until the robot gets pissed off....

Then the robots will be offered rights including voting that will be selflessly managed by the democratic proletariat robot block-voting committee to vote on behalf of all robots everywhere so their robot voices can be heard with absolute unwavering unity.

 

[Penny]

You are right in that smaller places will not be able to afford them, especially if they have a wide variety on the menu. On the other hand, a large franchise with several high volume stores in the same area can almost justify the costs of the machines and the requisite maintenance personnel now. When they watch their labor costs almost double from $8/hour to $15/hour they will be looking for technical solutions just to survive.

As far as not relying upon technology as a cost saving measure, I will simply point to robotic welders. When I started working, there was no way that a robotic welder would work in a low cost/low to mid volume environment. Now, they're commonplace. Also, I've seen robotic painters for the same low cost/low to mid volume environment go from not available to dramatically reducing manpower requirements, lowering defects, and lowering material usage.

Automation is an expensive outlay for small businesses. Whereas, Wholesale industries have already been investing in Automation for years, in food industries as well, and producing an ever expansive range of prepackaged food/meals pretty much anything you can think of food-wise, and these are already being rolled out to supermarkets, chain restaurants, cafes and other small businesses. It's possible quite a number of small businesses will expand the range of wholesale products they get in-store rather than invest in their own onsite automation, too.

 

[Penny]

Don't need to be paid, relatively low maintenance, don't mess up orders, don't need to take breaks, can work non-stop without affecting their productivity and efficiency.

Is it all potentially leading toward a situation where universal basic income could be brought in to counter loss of wages from Automation?

 

[Fluff]

Is it all potentially leading toward a situation where universal basic income could be brought in to counter loss of wages from Automation?

A reduction in work hours or days is probably (and personally) hopefully the first change.

 

[Mordoror]

Is it all potentially leading toward a situation where universal basic income could be brought in to counter loss of wages from Automation?

Roman Republic had the same issue with too much slaves on the market, taking the jobs of the plebeans

Solution found was to offer not minimal wages but bread and games

We already have Games (too much TV shows) and we already have bread (social care, sponsored food prices, low interests loans/credits)

If needed, things can be tinkered around these two ideas.

However, Rome maintained its treasury by constant military adventures. Let's hope we dont come to that ....

 

[colin traveller]

Make of it what you will ....

YOU WANT EVIDENCE? TRUMP NOW HAS THE RECEIPTS!

Mike Lindell's movie exposes the cover-up by U.S. Government agencies, Democrat Party, MSM and foreign actors in rigging the 2020 US election.

richardsonpost.com

 

[Penny]

A reduction in work hours or days is probably (and personally) hopefully the first change.

Indeed. At the very least better work life balance.

Roman Republic had the same issue with too much slaves on the market, taking the jobs of the plebeans

Solution found was to offer not minimal wages but bread and games

We already have Games (too much TV shows) and we already have bread (social care, sponsored food prices, low interests loans/credits)

If needed, things can be tinkered around these two ideas.

However, Rome maintained its treasury by constant military adventures. Let's hope we dont come to that ...

That is interesting, Mordoror, thank you, and agreed, let's hope we don't come to that. Perhaps tinkering around those two ideas could be more relevant, with more lateral thinking around not just Universal Basic Income and how Automation may effect people's incomes, but how the current digital society is already creating sources of incomes and how this may evolve, too. Who knows how it will evolve.

Author Steve Fuller, when in a debate with Political Economist Zolan Pogatsa on whether or not UBI will be the social security net of the future, said:

Fuller elaborated, saying that UBI, in-and-of-itself, is not flawed, it’s just not the correct solution to our modern difficulties. “It’s an old socialist welfare state idea. We do not live in an old socialist welfare state world anymore. And as a result, we need a renegotiation of the terms.”

Earlier in the debate, where Pogátsa stated that UBI would be like an advanced form of welfare, Fuller remarked that “a half-assed version isn’t the solution. That’s the point.” He elaborated, drawing modern considerations into our current view of UBI, by noting that we need a system that takes automation into consideration and is a permanent solution to the problems that it poses, not just a quick and temporary fix.

Article Link: https://futurism.com/ubi-universal-basic-income-alternative

 

[Mordoror]

Indeed. At the very least better work life balance.



That is interesting, Mordoror, thank you, and agreed, let's hope we don't come to that. Perhaps tinkering around those two ideas could be more relevant, with more lateral thinking around not just Universal Basic Income and how Automation may effect people's incomes, but how the current digital society is already creating sources of incomes and how this may evolve, too. Who knows how it will evolve.

Author Steve Fuller, when in a debate with Political Economist Zolan Pogatsa on whether or not UBI will be the social security net of the future, said:



Article Link: https://futurism.com/ubi-universal-basic-income-alternative

I forgot to ad, in the same historical comparison, that the Romans outsourced their sources for cheap and/or free -to be given to the populace- stuff (wheat/grain from Egypt mostly, wine, iron, loomed clothes goods Gauls, wool, tin, copper and loomed clothes from Spain).

That made the things cheaper (workfore in the conolies was inexpensive)
But created heavy issues in case of wars, in particular to ensure the food of the Roman million inhabitant population

We are doing exactly the same thing (at a bigger magnitude) with China and now SEA cheap providers (Bangladesh, Vietnam, Thailand)
Cheap stuff gives the feeling that level of income has not decreased but it is just a feeling : wages have stagnated if not decreased but as you can buy the same amount of stuff than 4-5-10 y ago (even if it is crap) people doesn"t feel that -too much-

But in case of issues with the maritime roads, we are good with big internal problems, much like the Roman themselves experienced it several times

 

[bfc1001]

I forgot to ad, in the same historical comparison, that the Romans outsourced their sources for cheap and/or free -to be given to the populace- stuff (wheat/grain from Egypt mostly, wine, iron, loomed clothes goods Gauls, wool, tin, copper and loomed clothes from Spain).

That made the things cheaper (workfore in the conolies was inexpensive)
But created heavy issues in case of wars, in particular to ensure the food of the Roman million inhabitant population

We are doing exactly the same thing (at a bigger magnitude) with China and now SEA cheap providers (Bangladesh, Vietnam, Thailand)
Cheap stuff gives the feeling that level of income has not decreased but it is just a feeling : wages have stagnated if not decreased but as you can buy the same amount of stuff than 4-5-10 y ago (even if it is crap) people doesn"t feel that -too much-

But in case of issues with the maritime roads, we are good with big internal problems, much like the Roman themselves experienced it several times

It does appear the west has found itself in somewhat of a circle jerk . Cheap consumables from the east have helped keep inflation low . Food , clothes electricals have all plummeted in value but internal markets that cannot be outsourced such as housing , healthcare , infrastructure have been steadily rising at a customary 4/5% per year . The outsourcing has deflated wages meaning tax take drops meaning the money isn't there to fix said internal problems past large amounts of borrowing . Short term profits over long term strategy .

 

[colin traveller]

Remember when there was kerfuffle about the census over a Question . DOJ investigated Elon musk when a person that applied for a job at SpaceX . Due to DOD regulations anyone that seeks employment in Space n defence field must be a legal American Citizen . A person complained when asked about there residental status ..

You would think at least the DOJ would know the rules

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Ivan le Fou]

First, raise taxes.
Then offer the money money back (taken by legislative force to buy votes).

Democrats to unveil $3,000 direct cash payments to families with children

Democrats will introduce a proposal attached to the next stimulus package that would provide $3,000-per-child direct payments in certain households.Why it matters: The new legislation, led by Ways and Means chairman Richard Neal (D-Mass.), comes shortly after Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) introduced...

news.yahoo.com

 

[colin traveller]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Flagg]

Automation is an expensive outlay for small businesses. Whereas, Wholesale industries have already been investing in Automation for years, in food industries as well, and producing an ever expansive range of prepackaged food/meals pretty much anything you can think of food-wise, and these are already being rolled out to supermarkets, chain restaurants, cafes and other small businesses. It's possible quite a number of small businesses will expand the range of wholesale products they get in-store rather than invest in their own onsite automation, too.

I both agree and disagree.

A truly independent small business is at a disadvantage, although there are bright spots here, specifically Shopify.

Shopify is the 3rd biggest e-commerce business in the world behind only Alibaba and Amazon when measured in aggregate volume consisting mostly of small to medium sized independent busInness.

So hopefully we will see more user friendly small business Shopify-like automation tools including robotics for repeatable tasks.

Another example is McDonalds, mostly consisting of a franchise network of small business owners.

McDonalds purchased several AI companies that increase sales yield(average sale $ ticket) and automate ordering.

Big purchases in the several hundred million dollar range, but a cost of only $10-20k per franchise, so buying not just the capability but the company itself.

Survival for small business will depend on their participation in a franchise network(like McDonald’s example), a co-op network(like Shopify digital co-op), or individual innovation(if they can afford the R&D and experimental risk).

 

[Fluff]

I both agree and disagree.

A truly independent small business is at a disadvantage, although there are bright spots here, specifically Shopify.

Shopify is the 3rd biggest e-commerce business in the world behind only Alibaba and Amazon when measured in aggregate volume consisting mostly of small to medium sized independent busInness.

So hopefully we will see more user friendly small business Shopify-like automation tools including robotics for repeatable tasks.

Another example is McDonalds, mostly consisting of a franchise network of small business owners.

McDonalds purchased several AI companies that increase sales yield(average sale $ ticket) and automate ordering.

Big purchases in the several hundred million dollar range, but a cost of only $10-20k per franchise, so buying not just the capability but the company itself.

Survival for small business will depend on their participation in a franchise network(like McDonald’s example), a co-op network(like Shopify digital co-op), or individual innovation(if they can afford the R&D and experimental risk).

There will also be system providers, so if you run a bakery, they will offer you a robot bakery. Big outlay, but they will offer finance, or a payback as you save, so assess your personnel costs, hell they will probably help you fire the staff........

Doesnt the future sound great - how will we afford flying cars, if we dont have jobs....

 

[primer]

More people loosing their jobs. So recently went to reorder from a German company. Shock horror. They now have a web ordering system completely deleting the ordering dept. What did they do with them?

The customer is the ordering dept now. Not sure how to ask for a discount. No button for that. These people were a large part of what was remaining of the German workforce.
Saves time asking when something is available and fairly streamlined and they still increased the prices..

 

[Ivan le Fou]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[TheKiwi]

As usual ignores that the real minimum wage is $0 for people who don't get employed at all.

 

[colin traveller]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The Struggle to be honest is real ... and her first response speaks volumes ..

 

[Penny]

There will also be system providers, so if you run a bakery, they will offer you a robot bakery. Big outlay, but they will offer finance, or a payback as you save, so assess your personnel costs, hell they will probably help you fire the staff........

Doesnt the future sound great - how will we afford flying cars, if we dont have jobs....

That's covered too with drone delivery.

 

[Mordoror]

More people loosing their jobs. So recently went to reorder from a German company. Shock horror. They now have a web ordering system completely deleting the ordering dept. What did they do with them?

The customer is the ordering dept now. Not sure how to ask for a discount. No button for that. These people were a large part of what was remaining of the German workforce.
Saves time asking when something is available and fairly streamlined and they still increased the prices..

It is funny, kinda, because it is in fact more present than we thought.
Remember when you have to register yourself your luggage and planes or train passboards?
Remember when you get your stamps from a machine at the post office?
Remember the ATM when you put your money and get a recipe ?
I can go on and on

All the desk clerks or attendants that used to hold these positions were fired long time ago

You just dont think about it because there is a psychological trick. The companies make you feel proactive.

But when you take 5 minutes on a electronic desk to register you plane boarding pass and ID, it is 5 minutes you work in fact for the company while you are not paid for

Multiply by a whole liner of passengers, removr the cost of ground crew that was previously needed for that job and you get a nice sum that is borderline unfair if not shady/grey job so shady/grey money

I would like a few lawyers specialised in job laws and taxes laws to get their noses in this system