Other Post Did the general public in Germany circa 1938 know the true intent of the Nazi's

[FranzKline]

From all my readings and views of video tape of actual people from that era in Germany I do believe the majority thought they were fighting Communism. But what about those who were not fighting Russia ? Those that invaded France, Netherlands, Norway were not fighting Communism. So what was driving them ? I know about the poverty and problems caused by reparations and the Versailles treaty that lead up to the extremely bad conditions in Germany but I'm trying to understand how that motivates a great culture like Germany to invade basically the whole world

 

[berkut76]

From all my readings and views of video tape of actual people from that era in Germany I do believe the majority thought they were fighting Communism. But what about those who were not fighting Russia ? Those that invaded France, Netherlands, Norway were not fighting Communism. So what was driving them ? I know about the poverty and problems caused by reparations and the Versailles treaty that lead up to the extremely bad conditions in Germany but I'm trying to understand how that motivates a great culture like Germany to invade basically the whole world

"Superiority" complex. Convinced that they are on a mission from God destined to lead the rest.

 

[vonFeilitzsch]

My great grandmother lived through both socialist dictatorships that Germany has seen in the past. I have talked a lot to her and to a lot of people who lived druing that era. My one grandmother lost her father my other grandmother lost 5 of her 6 brothers in WW2, 4 of them in Russia. My grandfather was a POW in the Soviet Union until 1955 after being captured on Crimea in 1944. I have asked all of them if they believed in Hitler. They did first except my grandfather on my fathers side. He was simply drafted. Hitler firstly convinced because he lifted Germany out of poverty and also really improved life in general for the people. The hitler youth for example took care of the children and the KDF provided affordable vacation for all germans. Since Hitler improved the life those people they were willing to follow him. Germans during WW2 didn't think of being superior as people over western europeans. different story with russians or more to say people in the soviet union. They always thought of it as freeing those people and sharing their ideology with them, which they believed was superior to anything that existed at those times. There really has to be drawn a line between the war on the Soviet Union which should serve as a raw material deliverer for the "Reich" and the war against the western european countries and in that case there has to be made a difference between invading France and trying to invade Britain and the remaining countries. France had been the arch enemy of Germany until '45. A lot of people in Germany hated France for what it had done to Germany with the treaty of Versaille. Britain was the enemy because for 3rd Reich Germany Britain got involved with something they should have had no business in, which was the war against France. Also Britain was one of the victors of WW1, something that did not attract german sympathy. A lot of it had to do with revenge for WW1 which is why the germans followed hitler not solely because of ideological reasons. WW1 and its aftermath had left a deep wound in the german people who wanted to heal it.

 

[Marsch]

"Superiority" complex. Convinced that they are on a mission from God destined to lead the rest.

Excuse me but that is Bo*****S. If France and the UK wouldn't have declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland Hitler would presumably never have bothered with them. This "Hitler was on a mission to rule the whole world" thing doesn't holds any proof if you take a closer look. Besides that Hitler and many of his followers weren't very godly at all.

 

[bfc1001]

I would agree there marsch . As far as I am aware Hitler had no intention of going to war with the UK , infact he quite admired the UK and the way it governed it's empire .

 

[TIZER]

anyhoo in 1933 1/3rd of the electorate voted against Hitler that was under a climate of the opposition getting beat up and locked up in concentration camps, he had total control over the media and the propaganda was even greater than the London based media's hostility towards the EU ...
The truth be told the British Empire was not saintly either we committed a lot of crimes against humanity and genocides, all Empires have a degree of evil at it's core ... and the American Empire (you don't call it a empire but it is) is making the exact same mistakes we did interfering in other countries elections and democracies invading/destabilising countries etc

and always the Establishments win more money and more power

after WW2 Germany and it's people were heavily punished and were brought up to face the shame of WW2 ... why did Japan not get the same treatment after all there crimes were as bad if not worse than Germany's what they did in China and their occupied territories and the other European powers for how we behaved in Africa, Asia and South America ... politics is a messy business

 

[Junglejim]

anyhoo in 1933 1/3rd of the electorate voted against Hitler that was under a climate of the opposition getting beat up and locked up in concentration camps, he had total control over the media and the propaganda was even greater than the London based media's hostility towards the EU ...
The truth be told the British Empire was not saintly either we committed a lot of crimes against humanity and genocides, all Empires have a degree of evil at it's core ... and the American Empire (you don't call it a empire but it is) is making the exact same mistakes we did interfering in other countries elections and democracies invading/destabilising countries etc

and always the Establishments win more money and more power

after WW2 Germany and it's people were heavily punished and were brought up to face the shame of WW2 ... why did Japan not get the same treatment after all there crimes were as bad if not worse than Germany's what they did in China and their occupied territories and the other European powers for how we behaved in Africa, Asia and South America ... politics is a messy business

The thing with American imperialism though is, it is the Coke Zero of Imperialism. It is there, it tastes like imperialism but all the labels says no it isnt. Even the general population of the US doesnt feel and think it is. Hell even most Filipinos at the time of occupation was like "its refreshing and no negative effects" just drink it.

 

[vonFeilitzsch]

anyhoo in 1933 1/3rd of the electorate voted against Hitler that was under a climate of the opposition getting beat up and locked up in concentration camps, he had total control over the media and the propaganda was even greater than the London based media's hostility towards the EU ...
The truth be told the British Empire was not saintly either we committed a lot of crimes against humanity and genocides, all Empires have a degree of evil at it's core ... and the American Empire (you don't call it a empire but it is) is making the exact same mistakes we did interfering in other countries elections and democracies invading/destabilising countries etc

and always the Establishments win more money and more power

after WW2 Germany and it's people were heavily punished and were brought up to face the shame of WW2 ... why did Japan not get the same treatment after all there crimes were as bad if not worse than Germany's what they did in China and their occupied territories and the other European powers for how we behaved in Africa, Asia and South America ... politics is a messy business

Every party had their fighting arm. Rotfrontkämpferbund, Stahlhelm and more and more. Every party went to each others event to beat up party members and visitors.

That kinda was the spirit of politics during Weimar

Kind of the reason hilter got power people wanted a little more order and sanity in politics (didnt work out)

 

[vonFeilitzsch]

Here Rotfrontkämpferbund (Communist Party of Germany) with one of Germanys most famous communists Ernst Thälmann

 

[TIZER]

Every party had their fighting arm. Rotfrontkämpferbund, Stahlhelm and more and more. Every party went to each others event to beat up party members and visitors.

That kinda was the spirit of politics during Weimar

Kind of the reason hilter got power people wanted a little more order and sanity in politics (didnt work out)

yes i know a lot of the parties did ... i was mere generalising something that would take hundreds of paragraphs to explain , but these other parties didn't have one thing the NSADP did have, that was the state apparatus behind, the police, army and media

i reiterate my point about Japan ... marches/parade with Imperial japanese uniforms, imagine the furore if this was allowed in modern day Germany, the Japanese Navy/Army are also allowed to use their sunburst flag in their military that flag is the same flag used in conquering large swathes of Asia and the same flag they used when there armies sacked Chinese cities, the Japanese seem to think there forces were the good guys

 

[Bombardier]

This was posted as a question that I doubt wil ever be answered fully but seems to be more of an historical political discussion of the WW2 era so I have moved it.

 

[TheKiwi]

Excuse me but that is Bo*****S. If France and the UK wouldn't have declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland Hitler would presumably never have bothered with them. This "Hitler was on a mission to rule the whole world" thing doesn't holds any proof if you take a closer look. Besides that Hitler and many of his followers weren't very godly at all.

There was the small matter of the occupation of Czechoslovakia in March of 1939 that meant that neither France nor Britain could place even the smallest faith in any assurances Germany could offer. To go along with the desire for revenge on the French that was written blatantly in Mein Kampf.

Blaming the UK and France for declaring war on Germany is akin to blaming the Belgians for resisting the German advance of 1914.

 

[bfc1001]

yes i know a lot of the parties did ... i was mere generalising something that would take hundreds of paragraphs to explain , but these other parties didn't have one thing the NSADP did have, that was the state apparatus behind, the police, army and media

i reiterate my point about Japan ... marches/parade with Imperial japanese uniforms, imagine the furore if this was allowed in modern day Germany, the Japanese Navy/Army are also allowed to use their sunburst flag in their military that flag is the same flag used in conquering large swathes of Asia and the same flag they used when there armies sacked Chinese cities, the Japanese seem to think there forces were the good guys

Did nt they still use Japanese forces in former occupied territories for policing directly after the war ? I seem to remember reading as such .

 

[Yevgeny]

Yeah I guess Long Knife Night, Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, racial hygiene was all about fighting Communism?

 

[Marsch]

There was the small matter of the occupation of Czechoslovakia in March of 1939 that meant that neither France nor Britain could place even the smallest faith in any assurances Germany could offer. To go along with the desire for revenge on the French that was written blatantly in Mein Kampf.

Blaming the UK and France for declaring war on Germany is akin to blaming the Belgians for resisting the German advance of 1914.

That's true but their reaction and behaviour in before the occupation was extremely weak and not a deterrence so he thought he can get through with it. Which actually was the case. I didn't read "Mein Kampf" so far but even if it's in there the historical facts say otherwise as the Nazis didn't even had a plan for the invasion of France ready when they invaded Poland. If the goal really would have been to also go west from the start they would have just opened a drawer and pulled out such plan but that wasn't the case. They only started to cobble one together at the end of September 1939 after France and the UK had declared war already.

I'm not "blaming" them. I merely state my opinion which is based on facts.

 

[Marsch]

Yeah I guess Long Knife Night, Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, racial hygiene was all about fighting Communism?

In the following video a Rabbi explains where the connection between Jews and communism was at least in Hitler's mind.

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What he says is mind blowing as he actually agrees with Hitler's views.

 

[Yevgeny]

In the following video a Rabbi explains where the connection between Jews and communism was at least in Hitler's mind.

What he says is mind blowing as he actually agrees with Hitler's views.

The question was if the German public knew about Nazi intentions or not. The answer is they did. They were fully aware because racial descrimination (not only that of Jews but of other minorities as well) and supression of political opposition (communist, democratic and fellow nationalist alike) took the massive proportions and was made public. There is no point to deny that.

But even if we as assume that it was all about fighting Communists it still makes them Nazis. It doesnt matter on what basis people are persecuted and descriminated - political, ethnic or religious. Fascism is always fascism.

 

[TheKiwi]

That's true but their reaction and behaviour in before the occupation was extremely weak and not a deterrence so he thought he can get through with it. ...

They stated repeatedly after the invasion of Czechoslovakia (and the taking of Memmel) that further aggrandisement would not be tolerated. Then there was the statement of alliance with Poland that was done in August. The British Foreign Minister Halifax stated that an attack on Poland would mean war and made reference to the claim that "it wasn't made clear to Germany that an invasion of Belgium would mean war" in 1914 so that there could be no misunderstanding.

 

[Marsch]

The question was if the German public knew about Nazi intentions or not. The answer is they did. They were fully aware because racial descrimination (not only that of Jews but of other minorities as well) and supression of political opposition (communist, democratic and fellow nationalist alike) took the massive proportions and was made public. There is no point to deny that.

But even if we as assume that it was all about fighting Communists it still makes them Nazis. It doesnt matter on what basis people are persecuted and descriminated - political, ethnic or religious. Fascism is always fascism.

I'll dispute that the population as a whole was completely aware of all the intentions. Racial discrimitation unfortunately was a thing at the time and didn't only happen in fascist countries. The people were fed up with all the infighting seen before the NSDAP came to power and therefore actually considered this to be a good thing.

You're right with that but you're applying todays standards. That's not the correct way to look at history in my opinion. You always have to put it into context with the circumstances of the respective period of time in mind.

They stated repeatedly after the invasion of Czechoslovakia (and the taking of Memmel) that further aggrandisement would not be tolerated. Then there was the statement of alliance with Poland that was done in August. The British Foreign Minister Halifax stated that an attack on Poland would mean war and made reference to the claim that "it wasn't made clear to Germany that an invasion of Belgium would mean war" in 1914 so that there could be no misunderstanding.

Did they? All I know is that the Brits did withdraw their embassador and that both countries (France and the UK) delivered protest notes. Even if they made it clear that any other annexation would mean war do you think they could be taken serious from the German perspective with how they handled the whole thing in before and the circumstances in general? As we know both countries weren't in the position and willing to actually put boots on the ground in the case of Poland and Hitler knew this very well.

Here's a quote of what Halifax allegedly said on the day they pledged support for Poland: "We do not think this guarantee will be binding."

 

[Yevgeny]

I'll dispute that the population as a whole was completely aware of all the intentions. Racial discrimitation unfortunately was a thing at the time and didn't only happen in fascist countries. The people were fed up with all the infighting seen before the NSDAP came to power and therefore actually considered this to be a good thing.

You're right with that but you're applying todays standards. That's not the correct way to look at history in my opinion. You always have to put it into context with the circumstances of the respective period of time in mind.

Im afraid people never change. Most of the people lack of critical thinking and willpower to go against the rules. That's why the general public will always believe what the media tells them and will mainly obey to the orders of the superiors. I see no signs of people today being any different from what they were 80 years ago. This very thread can serve as an example of that with the main idea being "German public didn't know the true intent of the Nazis they just thought It was all about fighting communism" So according to the author those thousands of left-wing activists who perished in Gestapo prisons and concentration camps was perfectly fine thing to do? What about those millions who died in result of USSR invasion when the international Rules of War were completely neglected? What kind of twisted logic is that?