Politics BLM protests across the US

[surfpunk]

How many shots did Kyle Rittenhouse fire to neutralize...4 people, including some who were really armed?

That's professionalism. He did'nt go somali warlord on anyone.

Maybe you are an emotional person and you think the police officer had a right to finish him off. He did'nt. he only had a right to neutralize him by using also deadly force if necessary, which means he still could have been killed. There's a difference and you frankly don't have to be that smart to see it.

just gotta say I appreciate reading your posts even if I think you are sometimes misinformed. please keep posting. no hard feelings at all.

 

[Jake84]

its not that bad is it? I find Telmars posts very interesting, and also Ivans, also. its interesting reading the different viewpoints even if things get a little hot, I think they both have valid points. personally, its making me think in a different direction, doing a little research on the subject when I have time.
opposing POV is much much better than an echo chamber. it may get a little frustrating feeling like one is explaining the same thing over and over, but again, it can be a learning experience.

As a “sappy” mod, I am very happy with you all to stay and keep posting.

Mordoror has decided to leave for personal reasons and we did our best to convince him to stay. While also admittedly a bit of a leftie himself had interesting insights on a number of topics.

So let’s keep the thread going, in a happy manner as much as possible, even if this topic is quite touchy and sensitive for many.

 

[Telmar]

... I have doubt that you are indeed a lawyer given how fast and loose you are with various terms.

I am not a lawyer and never claimed to be...take me to the firing squad

as I have already pointed out, deadly force doesnt recognize amount. one shot, is considered deadly force. pointing a gun at someone, is considered deadly force in many cases. if the subject is neutralized, most likely it is because they are seconds away from death. in some cases they have suffered a non mortal wound and that is enough for them to surrender.
...

I don' t know how many bullets you need. I have never been shot, and I don' t know how many bullets you need to get until you are not a threat anymore. I would say less than 7. Again, do you think if the police officer had reloaded and restarted it would have been OK?

That kind of shooting makes me think of a somali warlor execution...sorry...not the shots fired by police officers to make sure a suspect poses no more threat to the community or themselves.

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[Ivan le Fou]

Funny thing regarding the dude who got shot in the arm... he "technically" violated the Geneva Convention twice!

-by performing a "false surrender".
-by being openly hostile and armed while pretending to be a paramedic.

Incidentally, all those shot happen to also have an extensive criminal past.
D. Rosenbaum (shot in the head guy) was charged with criminal misconduct with a minor.
Gaige Paul Grosskreutz (shot in the arm guy) was convicted with burglary and was forbidden to own a weapon.
Anthony W. Huber (the discount Tony Hawk skateboard Hero) was convicted with sequestration with a deadly weapon, domestic abuse (6 counts), assault, etc...

 

[Euroamerican]

Well, the good thing is that he probably won't be out assaulting people nearly as much as when he could walk. Sorry, but zero u-know-whats given for the perp.

 

[riderboy]

“Peaceful protests” ..... with the city burning down behind him. ?

 

[Chazman]

Funny thing regarding the dude who got shot in the arm... he "technically" violated the Geneva Convention twice!

-by performing a "false surrender".
-by being openly hostile and armed while pretending to be a paramedic.

Incidentally, all those shot happen to also have an extensive criminal past.
D. Rosenbaum (shot in the head guy) was charged with criminal misconduct with a minor.
Gaige Paul Grosskreutz (shot in the arm guy) was convicted with burglary and was forbidden to own a weapon.
Anthony W. Huber (the discount Tony Hawk skateboard Hero) was convicted with sequestration with a deadly weapon, domestic abuse (6 counts), assault, etc...

Oh no! These are peaceful protestors, people of the highest moral standards! Yes, amazing how they all have criminal histories.

 

[Marat]

The girlfriend of the "dead-discount-Tony-Hawkes" started a GoFundMe.

Another group of people started a GoFundMe for Kyle Rittenhouse.

GoFundMe deleted the campaign for Kyle Rittenhouse.


Also, fun trivia:





Well, congratulations! "Your boy" committed a war crime!

Are you seriouse ??? You do know that Geneva Convention is related with, you know war????

EDIT> Sorry if I failed to recognized that this was joke.

 

[riderboy]

Oh no! These are peaceful protestors, people of the highest moral standards! Yes, amazing how they all have criminal histories.

Since CNN says it was peaceful, it was peaceful goddammit.

 

[Marat]

You live in a very calm country that is Slovakia. It's not the country where 50+ officers are killed by criminals every year. If American cops did not behave the way they do,that number would be 200+ easily.

Speaking of Wisconsin itself, the homicide rate amongst the white population is at the level of Finland.

It says all.

But why Slovakia and Europe in general is very calm? Do we do something different then USA? Or we and our police behave same as in USA?

US is not only country in world which have criminals and gangs, each country have them. US is not only country in world with big social ethnical and/or racial differences.

FFS we had civil war in my country because complex ethnical and religious set up. But still in all ex Yu countries you do not just let police to kill man on street.... ( at least not in peacetime, unfortunatelly during the war that often wasnt case but that is different topic)

If he is criminal arrest him, if we resist use force, but you can kill him only if he really jeopardize someone's life. If this opportunity is not good, wait for better time for arrest...

Police is here to make life safer, US police obliviously failed in that task. Streets in US are not safer now after several police murders.

 

[ao_sepia]

how much lost economic for george floyd case?

 

[Dercius]

So, if Kyle Rittenhouse decides to join the marines when he is 18, he gets the expert marksmanship badge on day 1 of boot camp. Am I right?
? ? ? ?
3 left "heroes", 3 convicted felons.... what a surprise

 

[Ivan le Fou]

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[Fish&Chips]

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So, how is assaulting a 'normal' citizen rated in VA? Is that also just a misdemeanor?

 

[Mike1976]

So, how is assaulting a 'normal' citizen rated in VA? Is that also just a misdemeanor?

Depends on what race they are

 

[Fluff]

faced with that I am pretty sure 99.9% of us would have shot him - before he turned round - I still cannot see how he took 7 rounds, and he is still alive

Bad taste Joke alert

In Russia you get the invoice for 7 rounds, and the medical bill for surviving....

 

[Fluff]

So many points.

Telmar v Ivan, both right, both wrong. Personally I like to see polite disagreement, and I love their hopefulness they hold of converting their 'foes' - for me please continue.

Old Joke in the RAF related to how many rounds "he moved so I shot him again".

The guy was an idiot, the cops didnt do great, 7 rounds at zero range and as far as we know hitting the man, feels like a lot to me.(Yes I've been issued and trained with weapons, more long than short) and suggests a little panic/loss of control, No I haven't been there, but did think about it once, in Saudi Arabia.

Yes the 17 year old civilian with the rifle showed better control than the cop. I dont understand US weapon laws, but allowing 17 year olds to own assault rifles sounds pretty lax again to me, even given you might allow 21 year olds to do so. Judgement on the 17 year old being on the streets, armed, no idea. How you deliver justice as he's now been arrested, is going to be crazy, with all the video's of before, after, what each person did, before, criminal records etc.

The geneva convention sought to set some limits on behaviors. Setting that aside, the pistol guy did appear to 'cede' then turns his gun on him, so thats a fair shot from the 17YO rifle guy.

Mess mess mess - Good luck America.

 

[Chazman]

So many points.

Telmar v Ivan, both right, both wrong. Personally I like to see polite disagreement, and I love their hopefulness they hold of converting their 'foes' - for me please continue.

Old Joke in the RAF related to how many rounds "he moved so I shot him again".

The guy was an idiot, the cops didnt do great, 7 rounds at zero range and as far as we know hitting the man, feels like a lot to me.(Yes I've been issued and trained with weapons, more long than short) and suggests a little panic/loss of control, No I haven't been there, but did think about it once, in Saudi Arabia.

Yes the 17 year old civilian with the rifle showed better control than the cop. I dont understand US weapon laws, but allowing 17 year olds to own assault rifles sounds pretty lax again to me, even given you might allow 21 year olds to do so. Judgement on the 17 year old being on the streets, armed, no idea. How you deliver justice as he's now been arrested, is going to be crazy, with all the video's of before, after, what each person did, before, criminal records etc.

The geneva convention sought to set some limits on behaviors. Setting that aside, the pistol guy did appear to 'cede' then turns his gun on him, so thats a fair shot from the 17YO rifle guy.

Mess mess mess - Good luck America.

That is a good question, how did a 17 year old have a weapon and what about the good judgement of his elders to allow him to get in that position. BTW, he has been arrested and charged with premeditated murder. Seems like he's over charged. Whatever it was, it certainly was not premeditated.

 

[Fluff]

That is a good question, how did a 17 year old have a weapon and what about the good judgement of his elders to allow him to get in that position. BTW, he has been arrested and charged with premeditated murder. Seems like he's over charged. Whatever it was, it certainly was not premeditated.

Has anyone done a 'defense analysis' for the 17YO? The earliest video I have seen is him being chased by someone allegedly with a petrol bomb? how did that incident start?

But my overarching points are
1 - bad idea to riot in a country full of guns = your going to get shot
2 - bad idea to go out to control a riot = your going to get shot/stabbed/beaten - thats what a riot is.
3 - if ignoring rule 2, good idea to be armed when going out to control a riot(as a civilian) - guns are legal, and my property is at risk. but be prepared to shoot people, as they may try to take your gun.

 

[surfpunk]

Has anyone done a 'defense analysis' for the 17YO? The earliest video I have seen is him being chased by someone allegedly with a petrol bomb? how did that incident start?

But my overarching points are
1 - bad idea to riot in a country full of guns = your going to get shot
2 - bad idea to go out to control a riot = your going to get shot/stabbed/beaten - thats what a riot is.
3 - if ignoring rule 2, good idea to be armed when going out to control a riot(as a civilian) - guns are legal, and my property is at risk. but be prepared to shoot people, as they may try to take your gun.

some other points to consider.... if law enforcement were doing the job they were supposed to be doing, none of this would have happened. why they were not, I do not know in this case, but in other cases they were prevented due to orders to stand down from democratic politicians and their appointees.
this has been going on for months now. what would you do if all of a sudden something happened in your town and you knew the "peaceful protesters" were going to be converging on your area? apparently this young man did not just show up, there was a familial relationship to the property he was protecting. he wasnt out looking for a fight.