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The legacy media, Dems and lefty celebrities are going to crucify Kyle Rittenhouse.
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Politics BLM protests across the US
- Thread starter Jake84
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Teenager charged over killings at Kenosha protest
Arrest comes after three nights of unrest in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake, a Black man.
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The girlfriend of the "dead-discount-Tony-Hawkes" started a GoFundMe.
Another group of people started a GoFundMe for Kyle Rittenhouse.
GoFundMe deleted the campaign for Kyle Rittenhouse.
Also, fun trivia:
Well, congratulations! "Your boy" committed a war crime!
Another group of people started a GoFundMe for Kyle Rittenhouse.
GoFundMe deleted the campaign for Kyle Rittenhouse.
Also, fun trivia:
Well, congratulations! "Your boy" committed a war crime!
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Wisconsin cop who shot Black man is named, as NBA leads sports walkout
US Department of Justice opens civil rights investigation into Rusten Sheskey's shooting of Jacob Blake; Black Lives Matters protesters defy curfew to march in Kenosha
www.timesofisrael.com
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so that kid really took out the trash. maybe they shouldnt have been rioting. maybe they shouldnt have attacked an innocent citizen.
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"Innocent black dude shot 7 times in the back".
"Oh my god! he was just trying to flee and the shot him right in front of his kids!"
And people went all emotional and stuff. Now half of Wisconsin is on fire because the idiot Governor, not knowing all the facts, went on condemning the cops within the first hour. Not knowing Blake was armed, not knowing of the second footage showing Blake attacking the officers before they drew their guns.
So, in the end: American black man with substantial criminal background, an arrest warrant, resisting arrest, attacking police officers and armed with a deadly weapon (yes, a knife is a deadly weapon).
Who cares about context and facts, right?
But yeah... your bad.
Correction: Blake had attacked the police officers, Blake was armed and Blake wasn't there to "break up a fight".
I'll go as far as going for the hypothesis the toxicology tests will turn back positive.
So yes, indeed, your bad.
As to the time you spent abroad, good for you, but in no case relevant whatsoever.
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American Black man with a potential weapon needs 7 bullets to be neutralized. Ordinary Black man with a potential weapon, six is enough.
Maybe you are lost by the term to neutralize. It means eliminating the threat which police officers clearly have a right to do for their safety. If it ends in a casualty, so be it.
Firing 7 bullets is a lot. any trained professional should know that. 7 bullets is going for a kill, the right to neutralize a threat is not a right to kill voluntarily. Even mafia hitmen don' t do that. African warlords, perhaps. The kid who fought against his attackers in Kenosha? How many shots? And was he in a situation of risk!
At least I have a line of thought that does' nt swing 180 according to where the events take place and what color is the person in question. I remember your tear-jerking posts about police brutality in France because some antifa dude torching stores got hit with an LBD and lost an eye.
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At least he won't be committing any more crime until he gets a fantastic payout from the state - I wonder if he will then walk again
His mum and dad were on TV the other day saying what a great son he was 
so it must be true
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boy, you keep saying the same thing over and over again, and your points keep being refuted, over and over again. that is called cognitive dissonance.
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and the ONLY reason this man is in the situation he is in, is because of decisions HE made. no one else is responsible. there was nothing stopping him from making better decisions earlier on in his life.At least he won't be committing any more crime until he gets a fantastic payout from the state - I wonder if he will then walk again
He is 100% responsible for being shot 7 times, in whatever side he presented to be shot.
and if he so chooses, he can start making better decisions now, and be in a netter place a few years from now. that is, if the nature of his injuries allow, regardless, he is still 100% responsible for where he is at this moment.
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How many shots did Kyle Rittenhouse fire to neutralize...4 people, including some who were really armed?
That's professionalism. He did'nt go somali warlord on anyone.
Maybe you are an emotional person and you think the police officer had a right to finish him off. He did'nt. he only had a right to neutralize him by using also deadly force if necessary, which means he still could have been killed. There's a difference and you frankly don't have to be that smart to see it.
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As someone who allegedly spent so many years in the US you seem to be rather oblivious of the shooting standards of the US police.
So, let's have a little lecture to refresh your memory.
Most law enforcement agencies establish a use of force continuum starting with simple presence through deadly force. With this model, officers first attempt to control subjects with the minimum force necessary. A use of force continuum is a standard providing LEOs with guidelines as to how much force may be used in a given situation.
While the specific progression of force varies considerably among different agencies and jurisdictions, this would be viewed as an example of a general use of force continuum as described by the U.S. government.
1- Officer presence – the professionalism, uniform, and utility belt of the law enforcement officer and the marked vessel or vehicle the officer arrives in. The visual presence of authority is normally enough for a subject to comply with an officer's lawful demands. Depending on the totality of the circumstances, a call/situation may require additional officers or on scene officers may request assistance in order to gain better control of the situation and ensure a more safe environment for all involved. It also will depend on the circumstances of the situation. For example, depending on how many people are at the scene with the officer, a larger presence may be required. However, if 10 officers arrive at a scene with only a single suspect, the public may perceive the situation as an excessive use of officer presence within the use of force continuum.
2- Verbal commands/cooperative controls – clear and understandable verbal direction by an officer aimed at the subject. In some cases, it is necessary for the officer to include a consequence to the verbal direction so that the subject understands what will happen if the subject refuses to comply with the officer’s direction. The verbal command and the consequence must be legal and not considered excessive according to the continuum. For example, an officer could not order a disabled person in a wheel chair to stand up or be sprayed by Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) Pepper Spray.
3- Empty-hand submission techniques, PPCT – Pressure Point Control Tactics, Control Tactics, techniques – a level of force that has a low probability of causing soft connective tissue damage or bone fractures. This would include joint manipulation techniques, applying pressure to pressure points and normal application of hand-cuffs.
4- Hard control Techniques/Aggressive response techniques – the amount of force that has a probability of causing soft connective tissue damage or bone fractures or irritation of the skin, eyes, and mucus membranes. This would include kicks, punches, stuns and use of aerosol sprays such as oleoresin capsicum (OC) pepper spray. Some models split these techniques between empty hand, soft control and intermediate weapon techniques but only include 5 levels of the continuum.
5- Intermediate weapons – an amount of force that would have a high probability of causing soft connective tissue damage or bone fractures. (e.g. expandable baton, baton, pepper spray, Taser, beanbag rounds, rubber fin stabilized ammunition, Mace (spray), police dogs, etc.) Intermediate weapon techniques are designed to impact muscles, arms and legs, and intentionally using an intermediate weapon on the head, neck, groin, knee caps, or spine would be classified as deadly or lethal force.
6- Lethal force/Deadly force – a force with a high probability of causing death or serious bodily injury. Serious bodily injury includes unconsciousness, protracted or obvious physical disfigurement, or protracted loss of or impairment to the function of a bodily member, organ, or the mental faculty. A firearm is the most widely recognized lethal or deadly force weapon, however, an automobile or weapon of opportunity could also be defined as a deadly force utility.
The Use-of-Force Continuum
Most law enforcement agencies have policies that guide their use of force. These policies describe a escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation. This continuum generally has many levels, and officers are instructed to respond with a level of force appropriate to the...
nij.ojp.gov
As for your attempt to mischaracterize my views and points, I'll let you in on a secret: it is called pragmatism and nuance.
To each country its rules, I have the right to feel concerned by the way French police force treat protesters. And no, I didn't shed tears when the police did their job on antifa scums, only when actual peaceful protesters got maimed. Your point is both a lie and a mischaracterization of facts. For instance, the firefighter who got hit by a LBD, in the head, at a distance bellow what safety requires, and subsequently spent a few days in a come was not "antifa". Just like, as a matter of fact, a lot of those you lost an eye and/or got their jaws broken. Those who lost fingers/hands/feet on the other hand (pun not intended) ar a whole other story. But it does not change the fact that you placing everybody in the same bag is a gross and blatant display of intellectual dishonesty.
The same thing could be said about your attempt at drawing a parallel between US LEOs and mafia gunman or African warlord. Which would, in fact, would be more crass and intellectually dishonest; but either way rather unflattering nonetheless.
Incidentally, and again, drawing a parallel between the LEOs involved in Blake's shooting and Rittenhouse's involvement in the shootout during the riots, is irrelevant simply because:
-two very different situation (one is a police operation, the other takes place during a riot).
-two very different kind of individuals (one is a cop, one is a 17years old kid).
-two very different legal settings (one is a police operation, therefore subjected to the law; the other is a "milicia operation").
7 bullets is "a lot" according to some standards. In France it would be a lot.
In the US? Not that much. In fact the average would be around 9,3.
But as the crime scene tape unfolds and the investigation begins, so does the questioning and “Monday morning quarterbacking.”
The term "neutralizing" does not confuse me at all, as a matter of fact. Just like I am not confused by the notion of "enough".
Neither me nor you are in any kind of position to determine what the appropriate amount of rounds is. In other words, you saying "6 is enough" is based on nothing but unsubstantiated guesses.
Here is some literature to further educate yourself on the matter:
Meanwhile CNN:
"Fiery but mostly peaceful protests".
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The first 75% of your wall of text is a waste of time since I clearly have agreed contunously that the guy could not be allowed by the officers to get back to his car.
Now for the rest, you just proved the kid was more pro than the police officer.
Are you sure 7 bullets was enough though? Would you have approved him reloading (if it was necessary) and shoot again?
Where' s the limit?
And actually he even was'nt..
Now for the rest, you just proved the kid was more pro than the police officer.
Are you sure 7 bullets was enough though? Would you have approved him reloading (if it was necessary) and shoot again?
Where' s the limit?
And actually he even was'nt..
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After Mordoror vs Ivan is seems like we have found a new pair of frenchies looking to elope somewhere.
I can’t say that I really like reading these condescending “let me lecture you about such and such...” but I’ll deal with it for the time being.
If things have to escalate here like it’s been the case in Wisconsin and regardless of your number of posts and contributions I have a feeling a formal reminder will be needed, before a timeout.
I can’t say that I really like reading these condescending “let me lecture you about such and such...” but I’ll deal with it for the time being.
If things have to escalate here like it’s been the case in Wisconsin and regardless of your number of posts and contributions I have a feeling a formal reminder will be needed, before a timeout.
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Not really, Telmar's nationality has nothing to do with the fact he is wrong in his approach.
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as I have already pointed out, deadly force doesnt recognize amount. one shot, is considered deadly force. pointing a gun at someone, is considered deadly force in many cases. if the subject is neutralized, most likely it is because they are seconds away from death. in some cases they have suffered a non mortal wound and that is enough for them to surrender.
you keep assuming what I think about the situation, when I have actually offered you absolutely no clues. I prefer to withhold judgement until all the info is presented.
what I have been doing, is trying to correct your misapprehension regarding well established precedent in US law. you as a lawyer should be able to understand that, but so far you have failed. you are good at comparing apples to oranges, and you are very good at conflating definitions. you are a lawyer you should understand this.
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I assume the limit would be when the suspect is incapacitated.
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its not that bad is it? I find Telmars posts very interesting, and also Ivans, also. its interesting reading the different viewpoints even if things get a little hot, I think they both have valid points. personally, its making me think in a different direction, doing a little research on the subject when I have time.
opposing POV is much much better than an echo chamber. it may get a little frustrating feeling like one is explaining the same thing over and over, but again, it can be a learning experience.
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faced with that I am pretty sure 99.9% of us would have shot him - before he turned round - I still cannot see how he took 7 rounds, and he is still alive
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