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[muck]

The German Ministry of Defence has selected the HK416 A8 as the new service rifle of the German military.

Courtesy of Soldat + Technik, here is the darn thing:

 

[Zweihander]

I recognize a thin version of the H&K sights - but apart from that, it looks like something from the original COLT-family!

 

[muck]

I recognize a thin version of the H&K sights - but apart from that, it looks like something from the original COLT-family!

The HK416 is a heavily modified variant of the AR platform, differing in particular with regards to the piston operating system. Internally, the M4 and the HK416 have relatively little in common.

 

[Zweihander]

@muck - OK! that made me watch a video of disassembling the HK416. It seems the world (and H&K) have moved on, from the old bolt-techniques of the MP5 and HK-G3. Looks slightly easier to maintain than the old system. So I learned something new today.....

 

[BCNTM]

Hero grandad, 51, rejoins SAS to become regiment’s oldest serving member

The veteran soldier said he missed the Who Dares Wins "craic" having served in Northern Ireland, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan and numerous other war zones around the world

www.dailystar.co.uk

 

[TheKiwi]

Daily Frankfurter Allgemeine reports that the German Ministry of Defence believes that Haenel has violated patents belonging to rival Heckler&Koch. As a consequence, the company is expelled from the tender. Haenel has already announced its intention to take both the MoD and H&K to court. Whether or not this turn of events means that the latter will be awarded the contract is not known at this point. (Source, German)

From what I read, one of the patents was for "a hole to let water drain faster". Which is on par with Apple claiming copyright over phones with rounded corners...

The HK416 is a heavily modified variant of the AR platform, differing in particular with regards to the piston operating system. Internally, the M4 and the HK416 have relatively little in common.

DI or piston just changes where the heat is in the firearm. No real benefits either way and not that much difference.

 

[Mike1976]

DI or piston just changes where the heat is in the firearm. No real benefits either way and not that much difference.

 

[TheKiwi]

The carbon & gas fouling is pretty limited and easily resolved with cleaning, something that also has to be done with a piston system, just in a different location. The Piston moves weight and heat to the front of the rifle. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.

 

[muck]

From what I read, one of the patents was for "a hole to let water drain faster". Which is on par with Apple claiming copyright over phones with rounded corners...

Well, I'd assume it's a tad more difficult than that to make the "over the beach"-drainage work without comprising perfomance and safety. The real kicker is its entirely unclear at this point whether or not H&K's patents are even pertinent. For H&K's argument, it all depends on when Haenel began working on their MK556 (i.e. if they did do so prior to the patent's expiration date in 2016.)

Haenel is now cranking things up to eleven, though. Not only do they accuse both the procurement agency and H&K of misrepresenting how MK556's drainage works, insisting it's different from H&K's; they also argue H&K's patent is invalid since their drainage is supposedly based on a mechanism developed by Colt decades ago and adopted by many manufacturers without Colt's protesting (leaving it unprotected under Civil Law).

Their response also includes a number of new accusations against H&K, including but not limited to unfair competition and chicanery. Having filed a myriad of lawsuits and objections, their new aim is to not only win the tender but also see H&K expelled from the process with an obligation to pay damages. This is going to be a nasty tug of war and it was foolish for the agency to take sides.

DI or piston just changes where the heat is in the firearm. No real benefits either way and not that much difference.

Well, the entire upper receiver is different. The short-stroke piston concept seems to be a bit more reliable from what I can gather. I mean, this is why they developed the HK416 in the first place – to be able to offer a more reliable AR to the Americans and to introduce the platform to Europe where it'd seen only little use so far.

Hero grandad, 51, rejoins SAS to become regiment’s oldest serving member

The veteran soldier said he missed the Who Dares Wins "craic" having served in Northern Ireland, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan and numerous other war zones around the world

www.dailystar.co.uk

Jesus.

 

[TheKiwi]

Piston impingement was developed to be a deliberate alternative to short stroke impingement because there was a lot of fud-lore out at the time on "teh M15 jams in Vietnam and hats dirt". I've not seen anything that suggests that the real world results are different by more than a tiny fraction. I do say "good on ya" to H&K for taking advantage of that information shortage.

 

[muck]

Well, the HK416 did beat the M4 in terms of realiability tests at the hands of people who supposedly knew how to clean a weapon. The World's Encyclopedia of Firearms says that in a U.S. DoD testing campaign, the 416 produced 233 stoppages for 60,000 rounds compared to the M4's 882. That's one stoppage for every 257 rounds compared to one stoppage for every 68 rounds. Only the SCAR (226) and the XM8 (127) did better.

 

[TheKiwi]

I must be looking wrong because I can't find either a website or a book of that name which makes it hard to verify. But the numbers don't pass the sniff test at first glance unless they were being performed under some pretty extreme circumstances. Those figures would make all the rifles listed less reliable than the (highly massaged) numbers put out for the British L85A1.

 

[muck]

From Military.com:

​

M4 Comes in Last Place in Dust Test​

Well, the results are in...and it doesn't look good for the M4 carbine.​

​

You'll remember that Defense Tech and Military.com were on top of the story of worries over the M4's reliability in the dusty conditions found in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn insisted the Army conduct side-by-side testing between the M4, SCAR, 416 and XM8 in an "extreme" dust environment.​

​

Well, the tests are complete and it seems the M4 came in dead last against its competitors. And, guess what...the Army's not budging. The M4 is still the best.​

​

I'll have the full story posted tomorrow morning at Military.com, but here's a preview: Ten of each weapon; 6,000 rounds per weapon; 120 rounds fired per "dust cycle" (and when they say dust, they mean DUST...testers had to wear respirators and Tyvec suits); wiped and light lube every 600 rounds, fully cleaned and lubed every 1,200 rounds.​

​

XM8: 127 Class I, II and III stoppages.​

​

Mk16 (5.56 SCAR): 226 Class I, II and III stoppages.​

​

HK 416: 233 Class I, II, and III stoppages.​

​

M4: 882 Class I, II and III stoppages.​

​

Army top gear buyer, Brig. Gen. Mark Brown: "The M4 carbine is a world-class weapon. Soldiers "have high confidence in that weapon, and that high confidence level is justified, in our view, as a result of all test data and all investigations we have made."​

​

An "in the know" congressional staffer: "These results are stunning, and frankly they are significantly more dramatic than most weapons experts expected. It's time to stop making excuses and just conduct a competition for a new weapon."​

​

Be sure to check out the full story tomorrow morning at Military.com.​

Follow the links and you'll also read the Army's response and their take on the test results.

Given the G36's unreliability under lab conditions while most troops seem to like the rifle, I wouldn't ascribe too much importance to a test like that but at the very least there appears to be measurable discrepancy in malfunction rates between the two concepts. I can't imagine the HK416 and its clones would've caught on without an advantage to their name.

Never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder, and all that. And it's genetically impossible for H&K to be the "lowest bidder".

 

[TheKiwi]

Yeah so it was a "non real world" test which isn't a huge surprise - that is how such things are done.

However in terms of dust ingress points there is no difference between the HK416 and a M4. All the usual points are the same.

Much more likely to be a factor are things like the reliability of magazine feed, the trigger susceptibility to dust clogging and the buffer system none of which have anything to do with the piston vs direct competition.

 

[muck]

Britain's upcoming "Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy" due for release on March 16 could spell major cuts for Her Majesty's Armed Forces, particularly the British Army and Royal Air Force. Under the plans, Britain's focus would shift towards unmanned systems and information warfare. These will be the review's major bullet points according to The Times:

Aircraft:

• Only 48 F-35's are to be operated
• 24 Typhoon F2's are to be retired early [conjecture on my part, it says "older Typhoon jets"]
• 14 Hercules C4/C5's are to be retired without replacement
• 45 transport helicopters are to be retired without replacement
• The Sentinel R1 and Islander C2 aircraft are to be retired without replacement
• Only 3 E-7's are to be operated
• The BAe-146 CC2/C3's will be retired with replacement by way of leasing

Land systems:

• The upgrade of 600 Warrior infantry fighting vehicles is to be cancelled
• The AS-90 self-propelled armoured howitzer is to be retired with replacement
• 89 artillery pieces are to be retired without replacement

Manpower and infrastructure:

• 23 battalions are to be shrunk or disbanded
• The British Army will be reduced by 12,500 troops
• Personnel is not to be made redundant; instead, the Armed Forces are to reduce their recruitment efforts
• A "White House-style situation room" is to be built for the government at a cost of GBP 9bn

The Royal Navy will supposedly see few or no major cuts.

 

[TheKiwi]

That's an utter crippling of the UK's defence forces. But hey at least there will be a Situation Room. Where they can sit and say "We have a situation. We also have no forces to deal with that situation. I wonder what the Americans are going to do about it".

 

[muck]

That thought crossed my mind as well, to be honest. It's like … Boris, you do realise that perhaps the "the most significant shake-up since the end of conscription" won't be necessary if you manage to make do without your fancy new "situation room"? Well, let's wait and see if it even comes to that. I mean, oftentimes the government leaks stuff to the press merely to find out what people think.

 

[Fluff]

That thought crossed my mind as well, to be honest. It's like … Boris, you do realise that perhaps the "the most significant shake-up since the end of conscription" won't be necessary if you manage to make do without your fancy new "situation room"? Well, let's wait and see if it even comes to that. I mean, oftentimes the government leaks stuff to the press merely to find out what people think.

See what happens, they do seem to like flying the options, also like to show worst case, then change it to a much better case.

UK isnt broke, we want to be on the world stage, so I cant see it happening.

Right now the gov is saying nurses will get a 1% rise, even though the pay body was about to recommend 2.1% - any takers on the nurses getting more than 2.1% when its finally decided in May? Also we and everyone else, needs to pump money into the economy, better to give it to nurses that will spend it, than others.

Some of those changes were already planned, the Hercules for example, we still have C17, voyagers, and A400's.

I'm also doubtful on the warrior, I expect numbers to be cut, but they would need a rebuild anyway, so why not update them. Convert the rest to replace the FV series. Job done.

 

[muck]

That money for Tempest has to come from somewhere, though. I'd assume that either the RAF or the Army will have to undergo a blood-letting. I daresay it'll be the Army, as both the RAF and RAN will be more important tools in the decades to come – both to press Britain's interests and to fill her role inside NATO, where her controlling the North Sea is more important than an additional armoured brigade somewhere.

 

[Fluff]

That money for Tempest has to come from somewhere, though. I'd assume that either the RAF or the Army will have to undergo a blood-letting. I daresay it'll be the Army, as both the RAF and RAN will be more important tools in the decades to come – both to press Britain's interests and to fill her role inside NATO, where her controlling the North Sea is more important than an additional armoured brigade somewhere.

Please leave the Austrians out of this.......

Boris clearly is a big spender, so many kids, so many ex-lovers, problem with cutting infantry is that they are cheap, and you get kicked every time the number goes down, 10,000 troops at 40K a head, is 400M, thats 0.01% of the defense budget. That wont get the new toilet seat for tempest designed, let alone made for that.

Lets keep in mind, UK designed Typhoon on our own, and let the germans and italians in to share the costs. So as the only other company that could possibly design a whole aircraft in Dassault in France, UK can get this done. There will be foreign buyers, and partners, so export sales should be good.

Very hard to trim the RAF any further, I dont understand us only having 3 awacs, but maybe a drone is planned to help out in a few years? The typhoon's offered up are presumably air to air only, which we dont really need, if we have newer multirole typhoons, and F35's as well. Maybe someone will buy them?