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[muck]

No theres doesn't, it works from TV transmitters, please read their website.

There is a clear reason for this.

This is simply radar using someone elses transmitter.

Its not looking for 'Stealth' absorbing signals, how would you know the signals were absorbed, and didn't just keep going?

A key element of stealth is to not reflect back to the transmitter - the aircraft still returns some signal.

This system is looking for the returns from the TV transmitter.

Well, I for one did check hensoldt.net, where it clearly states that TwInvis utilizes "a vast array of radio waves" such as the one generated "by broadcast and tv transmitters".

TwInvis uses the "countless radio signals which are already in the air" from broadcast and TV transmitters and "evaluates their echoes when reflected by an aircraft".

In fact the original article I posted a week ago cites a statement by Hensoldt that powerful VHF transmitters active in the area proved particularly useful in their bid to detect the F-35.

TwInvis doesn't look for returns from a television signal transmitter. It does look for radio waves bouncing off of aircraft in the sky.

 

[Fluff]

Well, I for one did check hensoldt.net, where it clearly states that TwInvis utilizes "a vast array of radio waves" such as the one generated "by broadcast and tv transmitters".

TwInvis uses the "countless radio signals which are already in the air" from broadcast and TV transmitters and "evaluates their echoes when reflected by an aircraft".

In fact the original article I posted a week ago cites a statement by Hensoldt that powerful VHF transmitters active in the area proved particularly useful in their bid to detect the F-35.

TwInvis doesn't look for returns from a television signal transmitter. It does look for radio waves bouncing off of aircraft in the sky.

From the features list:

• Range DAB/DVB-T up to 100km, 50-100m accuracy
• Real time fusion of 16 FM transmitters, 5 DAB and 5 DVB-T networks

DVB- T = "Digital Video Broadcasting — Terrestrial"; aka TV.

The system is not using random mobile phone returns, its using very powerful radio and TV transmitters, to collect returns.

Take out the very powerful transmitters and you have no system, it wont work from phone masts etc. Other than very very close range.

It is in essence radar, but using distributed transmitters.

And the fact they list 16, 5 and 5, means you probably have to map the transmitters you are using.

You can use FM but the accuracy is 300-500 metres, thats pretty broad for a target doing 500kts.

The point I was trying to make was that in a peacetime mission you would just 'hide' under a civ aircraft, and in wartime you would take out the transmitters.

I think you would be better of with some form of Flash Lidar, if you think there are invisible aircraft above your city. Or sound tracking..... or Ouija boards.

 

[muck]

I have a feeling we're kinda talking past one another.

Earlier, you said the system was only working with tv signals; that's what @Picanha responded to.

According to Hensoldt.net, the system in question (TwInvis) utilizes 'several existing VHF and UHF broadcasting signals'.

DAB/ DVB-T is among these, but so is a host of other signals. As matter of fact, the original press release placed some emphasis on the beneficial effect that Polish FM transmitters had on Hensoldt's endeavour.

The transmitter in question stands in Upper Silesia and transmits analogue and digital radio signals as well as a time signal that services most of Eastern Europe.

At any rate, the fact that the system needs a rich "background noise" is the very first thing established in the original post on this subject.

What is more, you seem approach this issue at very odd an angle. It really doesn't matter for the F-35 if it could be detected by the Germans under a very specific set of circumstances the replicability of which is doubtable for the time being.

"For the time being" and "Germans" being the crucial part, of course, The proof of concept has been supplied, and by the laws of technical evolution the system will only get better. It remains to be seen if a state that could find itself in the cross hairs of an F-35 will be able to acquire the system anytime soon, though. Additionally, the signal density in many of those countries can reasonably expected to be low.

As for TwInvis, Germany intends to field the system alongside its set of conventional radars in Southern Germany to test operating an additional layer of protection. The high population density of the country seems to be beneficial in this context. Almost 40% of the population lives in the Rhine-Ruhr-Main triangle, which has the highest density of transmitting towers in the world. It would be quite a feat to take them all out…

 

[Fluff]

We probably are, I'm more thinking of countries likely to be on the receiving end of an F35 visit, buying this system, if allowed, and thinking they are all sorted, which i think will last about 2 hours should things go hot.

As a part of a complete system, in a G20 country, it would have some use, and probably better than doing nothing.

 

[muck]

From 43.27 billion € to 50.36 billion in 2020 and 55 billion in 2024: In a surprise move, Germany announces swift 27% surge in defence spending ()

This news is particularly noteworthy as the current administration will still be in office in 2020. If they manage to push their reforms through in time, it's unlikely they can be rolled back even by a future government that might oppose the increase.

 

[Mordoror]

From 43.27 billion € to 50.36 billion in 2020 and 55 billion in 2024: In a surprise move, Germany announces swift 27% surge in defence spending ()

This news is particularly noteworthy as the current administration will still be in office in 2020. If they manage to push their reforms through in time, it's unlikely they can be rolled back even by a future government that might oppose the increase.

If even Germany (sorry no pun but realism) increases its defence spending, then that means that our politicians are feeling that the world is beginning to be really unsafe.
BTW the same trend in France (+1.8 billions 2017-2018; +1.7 billion 2018-2019 and again the same sum projected for 2019-2020)

 

[muck]

Pre-2018 built NH-90s grounded for reconditioning of tail rotor assembly ()

Well, at least they discovered that before one fell out of the sky. What's curious is that again, it seems to be a problem created by a third-party supplier. Airbus really needs to get its act together.

 

[Fish&Chips]

Airbus really needs to start producing all vital parts by themselves.

 

[Fluff]

Airbus really needs to start producing all vital parts by themselves.

There are few non-vital parts on a heli, or a passenger jet.

Most vehicles are assembled from various suppliers, that way you get a good gearbox, good engine, if ford made all the bits for a focus it would be s**t. Most parts are simply variations on a standard design.

But the system worked, defect found, confirmed and remedial work planned, it really is how it works, and we don't have many heli or planes falling out of the sky in Europe.

 

[muck]

Good point. On the other hand, it's only natural that issues revolving around the NH-90 would attract attention. It took ten years to get that system to a servicable condition. That's partly the fault of the countries that ran the original tender, but it's also partly the fault of the manufacturer.

⁂

In other news:

Germany adopts new reserve doctrine, introduces intermediate reserve to boost forces in times of strain ()

The new reserve doctrine aims to disburden the field army in times of strain and increase its quick response abilities. The most notable component is a six-years-long mobilisation order for all soldiers leaving active duty. Whilst no exact numbers have been given, the doctrine paper expects Germany to reach the peace-time limit of 370,000 troops conceded to it by the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe during the 2020s.​

Greece signs letter of intent over French Belharra frigates ()

The Belharra is the export version of a 4,000-tonne frigate being built for the French Navy, scheduled to enter service in 2025.​

 

[Fluff]

Interesting that germany feels the need to expand the reserves. Your not planning to give us Brexit then start your panzers are you? That would be dastardly.....

 

[Hiryu2.0]

Accueil - Defense aerospace

Find all the news concerning defense and aerospace.

www.defense-aerospace.com

 

[Fluff]

Really? 10mm makes so much difference? Huge install base of 120mm - if I was running Rheinmetal I would need some serious persuasion that this is the right move.

Better to tweak the penetrator or something on the 120.

 

[muck]

Interesting that germany feels the need to expand the reserves. Your not planning to give us Brexit then start your panzers are you? That would be dastardly.....

We'll start all 328 of them, just you wait.

And then we'll shut them off again, 'cause Greta wouldn't like all that soot in the air at all.

Really? 10mm makes so much difference? Huge install base of 120mm - if I was running Rheinmetal I would need some serious persuasion that this is the right move.

Better to tweak the penetrator or something on the 120.

There's a bit of an arms race between Rheinmetall and Nexter going on, which has a 140mm gun in development. The next big thing in European tank design is the Franco-German vehicle that is to replace the Leopard 2 and the Leclerc, and apparently they can't agree on who's going to supply the main gun. But a calibre greater than those in use is a central demand of the project.

 

[Fluff]

Probably take you a couple of years to get them all serviceable....

If you start buying barges and practicing snorkel use then I will get worried.

 

[muck]

We can't just disturb the serenity of maritime life with our dirty machines. Do you run mad?

 

[Kaiserschlacht]

We'll start all 328 of them, just you wait.

And then we'll shut them off again, 'cause Greta wouldn't like all that soot in the air at all.



There's a bit of an arms race between Rheinmetall and Nexter going on, which has a 140mm gun in development. The next big thing in European tank design is the Franco-German vehicle that is to replace the Leopard 2 and the Leclerc, and apparently they can't agree on who's going to supply the main gun. But a calibre greater than those in use is a central demand of the project.

The French and the Germans can't already agree on the philosophy of that future tank,let alone the main gun. Views differ between the Franco-Germany army staff.

The German and French staffs also failed to agree on a common expression of needs. When Berlin imagines a successor to its Leopard 2 tank in 2035 to the defense and to block the access to its territory, Paris imagines a fast and agile tank accompanied by a set of robots and drones to break an enemy line on any territory.

Le fossé culturel entre les armées française et allemande trouble la coopération

Commissaire parlementaire aux forces armées, Hans-Peter Bartels, qui s'apprête à publier un ouvrage sur l'armée allemande et la défense européenne, tente d'expliquer dans un entretien les différences de perception entre France et Allemagne, qui créent de nombreux malentendus.

www.lesechos.fr

 

[Fluff]

The French and the Germans can't already agree on the philosophy of that future tank,let alone the main gun. Views differ between the Franco-Germany army staff.

Le fossé culturel entre les armées française et allemande trouble la coopération

Commissaire parlementaire aux forces armées, Hans-Peter Bartels, qui s'apprête à publier un ouvrage sur l'armée allemande et la défense européenne, tente d'expliquer dans un entretien les différences de perception entre France et Allemagne, qui créent de nombreux malentendus.

www.lesechos.fr

camel and committees come to mind.....

Also has anyone checked history, last time the germans and French made a joint tank, the French went off and bought their own anyway - probably just a ploy to get a decent MTU engine......

Also seriously they cant agree what a tank is for? The philosophy?? I don't think Rheinmettal or krupps had too much time for philosophy back in 36.....

1- needs to stand up against armata = armour, gun, active protection.
2- needs 'light' mode, for peacekeeping etc
3- needs support mode, take off turret, fit twin 30mm, drone launcher, mortar, and small AA missile.
4- hybrid drive
5 - IR hear dump etc

 

[muck]

Maybe I'm biased, but the specifications put forth by the French do not remind me of a main battle tank.

⁂

In other news:

Swiss Air Force discovers hair cracks on significant number of their F/A-18's ()

It only reaffirms what their air force has been saying for years: They need a new jet.

 

[Fluff]

The French and the Germans can't already agree on the philosophy of that future tank,let alone the main gun. Views differ between the Franco-Germany army staff.

Le fossé culturel entre les armées française et allemande trouble la coopération

Commissaire parlementaire aux forces armées, Hans-Peter Bartels, qui s'apprête à publier un ouvrage sur l'armée allemande et la défense européenne, tente d'expliquer dans un entretien les différences de perception entre France et Allemagne, qui créent de nombreux malentendus.

www.lesechos.fr

So the french want cavalry, the Germans want a blocker.

What’s our likely situation, the uk would back the blocker 100%.

You can use apc etc for cavalry, you have to have a heavyweight team.

It’s a system with a 40 year life, make it adaptable......