Politics The EU is killing Europe

[Musashi]

Your typical comment. A guy who quotes the Bible and is racist. Does the Bible teach random people to be racist? I know the KJV quite well.

 

[thelistener]

These talking points are very real, as demonstrated by the growing popularity of Eurosceptic parties in Europe, and even the fact some countries that had their ruling party wanting to join Europe losing elections to parties opposed to joining Europe.

The "pro-Russia" argument is only one, among many, used to discredit these parties and the concerns of anybody voicing opposition to whatever government is in place. It is nothing but a buzz-word just like "nazi" and "brown-shirts" were used before that.
The farmers in the Netherland, Poland and France, the Yellow Jackets, the anti-immigration movements in the UK, etc. All these got labeled as "pro-Russia" among other things.
Does this make these popular movements "pro-Russian"? No. Most of the people demonstrating don't give a f**k about Russia.
Do the leader of the political parties that are eurosceptic "pro-Russia"? Depends. It also depends on what "pro-Russia" means. But just like most words used to discredit "someone we don't like" the expression has lost both its value and meaning due to being overused.

Is it 100% propaganda? No. It is very possible there are pro-Russian politicians.
The question shouldn't be wether or not such belief exists, but rather to what extent, under what form, to what end, etc... Some are automatically labeled "pro-Russia" because they like Russia as a country, for its culture and such.
But is the claim "Kremlin stooges are actively trying to undermine and destroy Europe from within", propaganda? To that extent, I'd say yes. A grotesque kind, at that, especially considering it is used to cover for the short-comings and mistakes made by the various governments in power (especially when they are very pro-EU).

Pretending it does not exist or is only a temporary thing that will simply go away as "let them cry and tire themselves, they will shut up eventually" is unwise and shows contempt. First because these problems haven't gone away, in fact they have gotten worse, but the discontent grows as well. Every country in the EU has a more than one political party opposed to the EU, each country elected at least one representatives of these parties to the European parliament in 2024 (which is rather ironic and hilarious when you think about it).


But I think you are right, having political parties and leaders that are either anti or sceptic toward the EU is a good thing. As you said it calms discontent and allows new approaches to be taken.
Instead of the usual and dismissive "you don't like the EU because you are simply too dumb to understand it is good for you", there are actual explanations given and sometimes the discontent is proven to be justified. In addition, as you said as well, being in a position of power gives them the opportunity to do something about the issues they claim to have a solution to.

Thank you for the response, I hear ya, and agree on many parts.

Yes, I posted about the Georgescu issue, but some thought proper to remove my posting privileges in said thread so I couldn't follow up on the story.
Money and weapons found at the place of his bodyguard?... heh... ok... is that a there there? That's rather tenuous. Is there a direct and factual link between the two, is it a hustle, is the bodyguard a crook (former Wagner apparently), etc... who knows. If one wnated to add stereotypes to the pile: it's Eastern Europe, therefore corruption.
However the claims leading to the cancellation of the first round by order of the EU, about which Thierry Breton bragged about, were BS. It shouldn't have happened to begin with, it shouldn't have been tolerated either. The ones who made the claim lied, but somehow it does not incites their following claims to be scrutinized.

Whether you do it intentionally or unintentionally, the comments and actions of the "other side" are taken out of context and the actions of the other side, at the point where they can't be denied, are put in the category of "maybe, I don't know, who knows"

I think it's dishonest. As I said, I don't know if you do it intentionally or not, but I would argue that it stems from the fact that in your mind the "other side" is more woke and the other side is more anti-woke. That way you know whose side to take or at least you're a little over the line when reporting what's happening.

A weak and backward country that has to steal washing machines in order to keep its MiC running and only 2 weeks left before it crashes completely, yet somehow able to, hypothetically, roll over the entire European continent.


Both the greatest criminal mastermind and the most profoundly retarded entity; and both a paper tiger and an asteroid on collision course to Earth.
It cannot be both of the contradictory things at once.

I think Russia can be both at the same time and I think you describe Russia perfectly and exactly the crux that Russia is. Call me stupid if you so wish.
Russia is a paper tiger and an asteroid on a collision course to earth describes the beginning of the Ukrainian war perfectly in my opinion.

Of course I'm not defending someone who said that Russia will roll all the way to the Atlantic. But from my own country's perspective; Russia has shown that it is not interested in the extent of the losses it takes and the cost of the war, if it believes that it can achieve what it wants with military force, it will try to do so.

Russia's military and economic power has weakened due to the war. Of course, Russia will be able to patch up its losses, but the level of equipment of the Russian army right now is completely different from the beginning of the war. (I don't think in a good way) but the European/NATO deterrence must be so huge that even with a human wave attack Russia cannot imagine achieving its goals and thus doesn't try to.

Russia can test NATO's unity by grabbing a small piece of land from the Baltics. And as we have seen in Ukraine, throwing them out is very challenging and would certainly require attacking the Russian side, which carries the risk of escalation, etc. The issue is not "can we beat Russia eventually if they attack" but having enough deterrence that they don't even dare to try. And Ukraine has shown that, the deterrence level needs to be very very high.

*Maybe i'm stupid but i don't see the contradiction between showing poorly equipped Russian troops and also believing Russia is a threat.

edit. I'll try to clarify just in case. My thoughts on this might be biased due to my heritage. But Russia being a retard and a threat is so ingrained i fail to see, how for some it's a contradiction. In 1930's the soviets purged their military beforehand and tried to invade and occupy Finland in the middle of winter, ill equipped. But still their threat, pre-invasion and then invasion posed a existential threat even though they went about it like retards at the beginning.

Now, is Russia a threat to Europe?
Yes.
At least it is now. Perhaps not so much in the past, up to 2010 at least, give or take.

Is it the greatest threat to Europe?
I'd say no, but that's only because I am very biased against Turkey.

Thanks for adding the very biased, i chuckled.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Whether you do it intentionally or unintentionally, the comments and actions of the "other side" are taken out of context and the actions of the other side, at the point where they can't be denied, are put in the category of "maybe, I don't know, who knows"

I think it's dishonest. As I said, I don't know if you do it intentionally or not, but I would argue that it stems from the fact that in your mind the "other side" is more woke and the other side is more anti-woke. That way you know whose side to take or at least you're a little over the line when reporting what's happening.

No. I am not interested in "actively taking a side", being "part of a team" or even "being right". I just don't like being lied to.

For all intents and purposes I can very well say what they did to Georgescu is scummy, while disagreeing with his policies and not wanting him to win the elections. If he wins though I am opposed to him, better luck next time then, that's why there are elections. As long as the process is fair, just and law abiding, all is fine.
But when you introduce "shenanigans" in the equation in order to skew things in group X or group Y's favor, now there I have an issue. Because it damages trust.
And if it is not exposed, denounced and procedures not implemented for it not to happen again, well, it may very well happen again. And it may very well happen at a variety of levels.

The initial charges against Georgescu were made up and BS, and demonstratively so following an investigation. Worthy of note: more or less the same happened in Georgia, for the same reasons and involving the same actors.
The next batch of charges, though materially undeniable (the objects are there, they exist), still have me wondering about their relevancy, the intents behind them, etc...
Perhaps it has been explained and an investigation was conducted to determine the veracity of the charges, but as I said "I don't know", because at this point it does not matter anymore. The thing is settled, Georgescu is out for good, there won't be a come back and that's it. "What difference does it make?" as some wench once said.

But that's unrelated to the EU topic anyway.

 

[Musashi]

Poland Suspends Right To Asylum Amid EU Clash With Belarus Over Border

Amid allegations Belarus is using irregular migrants to provoke discord in the EU, Poland has approved a controversial bill to stop people claiming asylum in the country.

www.forbes.com

 

[Connaught Ranger]

With regards Romania, on the 15th March 2025 at the Victory Square in Bucharest the pro-European meeting had far more people attend than any at the demonstrations orchestrated by the supporters of "Kremlin" Georgescu, (AUR - SOS pro-ruSSian supporters) there was no trouble what-so-ever, no attacks on the police/Jandarmaria, no shops were looted, no cars damaged, nothing was burned, nobody was arrested for carrying any type of weapons.

I was in Bucharest to attend the Irish Embassy St. Patrick's Day reception I was staying right next to the Victory Square and strolled around the periphery of the location, a good time was had by all with many families were in attendance.

I have been living here for 25 years and have met people here who remember the shitty lives they had under the Communists and do not want to have anything to do with those here in Romania who are pro-ruSSian. They remember the prison camps in the Danube delta and deportations to ruSsia to where their relatives were sent and from which very few came back, they also have little time for the pro "Iron Guard" idiots.

Yes, there is corruption in politics in Romania (exists in every country in the world) but, since 1989 life has improved for many E.U. money for infrastructure and projects has helped, cant expect anything like that from ruSsia, nor do I see que's of people looking to go work there either.

 

[haze99]

United Kingdom

UK Police Arrest Parents over Complaints About Their Daughter's School

Police have been accused of acting in a "Kafkaesque" manner after arresting parents over complaints made about their daughter's school.

www.breitbart.com

Carry on lads.

 

[haze99]

France

Marine Le Pen’s future to be decided as embezzlement verdict arrives

Far-right leader could be barred from standing for presidency if she is convicted over alleged fake jobs scam

www.theguardian.com

 

[haze99]

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[Picanha]

With regards Romania, on the 15th March 2025 at the Victory Square in Bucharest the pro-European meeting had far more people attend than any at the demonstrations orchestrated by the supporters of "Kremlin" Georgescu, (AUR - SOS pro-ruSSian supporters) there was no trouble what-so-ever, no attacks on the police/Jandarmaria, no shops were looted, no cars damaged, nothing was burned, nobody was arrested for carrying any type of weapons.

I was in Bucharest to attend the Irish Embassy St. Patrick's Day reception I was staying right next to the Victory Square and strolled around the periphery of the location, a good time was had by all with many families were in attendance.

I have been living here for 25 years and have met people here who remember the shitty lives they had under the Communists and do not want to have anything to do with those here in Romania who are pro-ruSSian. They remember the prison camps in the Danube delta and deportations to ruSsia to where their relatives were sent and from which very few came back, they also have little time for the pro "Iron Guard" idiots.

Yes, there is corruption in politics in Romania (exists in every country in the world) but, since 1989 life has improved for many E.U. money for infrastructure and projects has helped, cant expect anything like that from ruSsia, nor do I see que's of people looking to go work there either.

Sometimes I wish we could do time travel and send those people back to the places they long for so much.

I still remember the Ceaucescu family..

But cool to hear from people not even born back then how cool authocratism is.

For older folks with that views no words...

 

[primer]

Should be neccessary subject in schools and cripple the commy university professors.

 

[haze99]

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[Chazman]

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The left appears to operate in the same way, everywhere.

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[Chazman]

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[Chazman]

Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister On Le Pen Conviction: ‘A Declaration Of War From Brussels’

French opposition leader Marine Le Pen has been barred from running for political office following her conviction — along with several others in France’s Right-leaning National Rally Party — on charges of embezzling public funds. The charges against Le Pen involved funding from the European...

www.dailywire.com

 

[Chazman]

If Putin did this, what would we say?

 

[skaw]

If Putin did this, what would we say?

 

[Chazman]

View attachment 523639

Explain.

Is democracy dead or dying in Europe?

If the "elites" don't anoint you, they will destroy you and make sure you can't run against them. We see the same tactics in the US.

 

[thelistener]

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i tried finding her recent comments about nato. Only found comments from 2022 (and those were about leaving the integrated nato command not nato) before 2022 French presidential election. Which she lost

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Of the French political class, she isn't the most anti-NATO.

Asselinau (UPR) and LFI in general are very anti-NATO.

National Rally wants to leave the commanding structure of NATO, while LFI is for the complete withdrawal from the organization.

*and the French communist party is also fervently opposed to NATO, obviously, but they have zero political relevancy*

 

[Jake84]

Explain.

Is democracy dead or dying in Europe?

If the "elites" don't anoint you, they will destroy you and make sure you can't run against them. We see the same tactics in the US.

Let’s say it’s late here and am pretty exhausted, too much to explain in length and thoughtfully but to answer: yes, kind of.

We had a referendum in France in 2005 about the EU (not a Frexit - yes or no question but close) and the French voted nope. Nevermind it it got validated later on in parliament and forced onto us by… Nicolas Sarkozy.

Some intellectuals around here like Michel Onfray calls it the Europe of the Maastricht treaty: killing off each of our countries sovereignty in order to implement a mish mash of countries led by (for now) unelected Ursula Van der Leyen.

It does sound very conspiracy like, or very meandering but eerily true and more by the day.

Some people have the cojones to oppose this, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders, Meloni… and a few of them succeed or eventually have to deal with another right wing « acceptable » party to govern, but the process of turning/destroying countries here is on. It’s about the European Union, not much about our countries, our people, our traditions anymore.