Politics Riots in Gaza and Israel

[IDF_TANKER]

Hope someday both Palestinians and Israelis find peace.

Know what, I'm going to actually give an unusually long response for this kind of sentiment (which is BTW is totally fine, appreciated etc).
There is something very fundamental people tend to miss about Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The core assumption, that this conflict is kind of self-contained phenomenon which can be resolved by "both sides" willingly engaging in one or another kind of "peace process" for all intents and purposes is fundamentally wrong. Without going into an historic rabbit hole of how this conflict was more or less deliberately manufactured by Arab League and other actors, people need to understand that all the religious, tribal, social, political, historical and other forces which are ripping this region apart are very much present in the Palestinian microcosms. The fact that Palestinians are divided into two diametrically opposed mutually exclusive political camps - Islamists and Arab Nationalists - should be a strong hint.
So no, there is not going to be peace for any observable feature, for more or less exact reasons there is not going to be peace virtually anywhere else in the ME, among Palestinians themselves included.

 

[BCNTM]

Top Democrat looking to delay $735 million sale of precision missiles to Israel

Gregory Meeks, head of the powerful House Foreign Affairs Committee and an AIPAC ally, wants to give panel time to review deal in light of Gaza fighting

www.timesofisrael.com

Yanks need to remember who their friends are - but with pathetic Biden in office who knows

 

[BCNTM]

Know what, I'm going to actually give an unusually long response for this kind of sentiment (which is BTW is totally fine, appreciated etc).
There is something very fundamental people tend to miss about Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The core assumption, that this conflict is kind of self-contained phenomenon which can be resolved by "both sides" willingly engaging in one or another kind of "peace process" for all intents and purposes is fundamentally wrong. Without going into an historic rabbit hole of how this conflict was more or less deliberately manufactured by Arab League and other actors, people need to understand that all the religious, tribal, social, political, historical and other forces which are ripping this region apart are very much present in the Palestinian microcosms. The fact that Palestinians are divided into two diametrically opposed mutually exclusive political camps - Islamists and Arab Nationalists - should be a strong hint.
So no, there is not going to be peace for any observable feature, for more or less exact reasons there is not going to be peace virtually anywhere else in the ME, among Palestinians themselves included.

Exactly - perhaps it would be better if the various Arab factions just concentrated on killing each other and just leave you out of it to live in peace and prosperity under the dome

 

[ao_sepia]

Ah come on!

They got one!

View attachment 307769

merkava?

So about that war profiteering and how the left just want money from middle eastern wars...

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real sale or real free?

 

[Ivan le Fou]

merkava?

A cardboard and plywood one.

Islamic Jihad commander killed in Israeli air strike

Armed group says Hussam Abu Harbeed, one of its leaders in Gaza, was killed by an Israeli air raid.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Yanks need to remember who their friends are - but with pathetic Biden in office who knows

Democrats are in power and they know who their friends are.

And it's not Israel.

 

[IDF_TANKER]

Democrats are in power and they know who their friends are.

And it's not Israel.

Compared to Obama/Kerry, Biden/Blinken are basically godsent...

 

[Junglejim]

Know what, I'm going to actually give an unusually long response for this kind of sentiment (which is BTW is totally fine, appreciated etc).
There is something very fundamental people tend to miss about Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The core assumption, that this conflict is kind of self-contained phenomenon which can be resolved by "both sides" willingly engaging in one or another kind of "peace process" for all intents and purposes is fundamentally wrong. Without going into an historic rabbit hole of how this conflict was more or less deliberately manufactured by Arab League and other actors, people need to understand that all the religious, tribal, social, political, historical and other forces which are ripping this region apart are very much present in the Palestinian microcosms. The fact that Palestinians are divided into two diametrically opposed mutually exclusive political camps - Islamists and Arab Nationalists - should be a strong hint.
So no, there is not going to be peace for any observable feature, for more or less exact reasons there is not going to be peace virtually anywhere else in the ME, among Palestinians themselves included.

I understand your sentiment and explanation. Peace may never come in the near future, but I still wish both sides find it. As much as I would probably die due to shrapnel from setting up a stool and enjoying the awesomeness of the Iron Dome, I wouldnt wish the threat of an IDFs airstrike on anyone, just as much as I dont wish the threat of rocket attacks on anybody either. A bomb explosion or rocket barrage is traumatizing for anyone on the receiving end of it, no matter where it came from.

Getting a call from the IDF is great, but having your neighborhood go up in smoke is still traumatizing... Tell you what though if i was a Palestinian I would be OCDing in ensuring that my cellphone bill is paid on time.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Compared to Obama/Kerry, Biden/Blinken are basically godsent...

Well, with openly antisemitic members allowed to roam freely, and without any kind of sanction and/or repercussion, within their own ranks why is that even a surprise?

But remember what Kerry said when he was in charge: peace in the Middle East cannot be achieved.
Two years ago, or was it last year?, Trump got the Abraham accord signed with a significant number of Muslim countries either recognizing Israel and/or normalizing their relation with Israel. That is, apart from countries aligned with Iran.

It is not so much that peace cannot be achieved, but rather it would be better if peace isn't achieved. It is better for some part of the US administration if things remain the same in the region: it allows the US to remain involved, to keep its seat in the region, to make sure it still have more than its say in everything/most things.
It also is a great political and electoral tool. once a problem is solved you can't use it as a prop anymore.


Anyway.

Is Iran relevant in the region?

Unfortunately yes, but mostly because of its ability of being a nuisance.

 

[Mardonius]

The idea that some normalization agreements between Israel and a bunch small, forged countries would eventually lead to peace in the Middle East was always a hilarious and disingenuous selling point. We are talking about countries that have never been relevant in the region whatsoever, with their leaders being unpopular and autocratic. The only reason why these countries bought into it is because Iran gives them nightmares.

I'm going to make a not-so-bold prediction: as long Israel occupies Palestinian lands, the Middle East will never accept Israel. No matter how many Jared Kushner's and other Israeli-Firsters in the US throw the full-weight of American power behind the initiative.

 

[Mardonius]

Long live the Palestinian spirit!

​

 

[Euroamerican]

My prediction: As long as a Jewish State exists anywhere in the world, there will be Jew haters who are unhappy.

 

[surfpunk]

View attachment 307961

Long live the Palestinian spirit!

​

So, in your eyes, never ending bloodshed is preferable to a Jewish state? You are convinced that violent conflict, is a better option than co-existence?

 

[Mardonius]

So, in your eyes, never ending bloodshed is preferable to a Jewish state? You are convinced that violent conflict, is a better option than co-existence?

There can't be any peaceful co-existence with an Israeli society that increasingly gets more radical, continues to build settlements on Palestinian lands and thinks it can hit all kinds of targets in the ME with impunity.

The funny thing is, I once had pro-Israeli sentiments. But this unbearable arrogance of them, enforced by emotional blackmail, self-entitlement and constant whining, will eventually lead to their downfall.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Israeli Warships Fire Missiles At Gaza While Hamas Takes Aim At Offshore Oil Platforms

As the Israeli bombardment of Gaza continues, the conflict has now added a maritime dimension.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Ivan le Fou]

My prediction: As long as a Jewish State exists anywhere in the world, there will be Jew haters who are unhappy.

Jew haters have been around way before a Jewish State existed though.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

But this unbearable arrogance of them, enforced by emotional blackmail, self-entitlement and constant whining, will eventually lead to their downfall.

Aint that what you have been doing since you dropped on this forum?

 

[Mardonius]

Aint that what you have been doing since you dropped on this forum?

Shouldn't you throw around some tweet on Sleepy Joe in the Biden thread? You're way out of your depth with everything related to the Middle East.

 

[surfpunk]

There can't be any peaceful co-existence with an Israeli society that increasingly gets more radical, continues to build settlements on Palestinian lands and thinks it can hit all kinds of targets in the ME with impunity.

The funny thing is, I once had pro-Israeli sentiments. But this unbearable arrogance of them, enforced by emotional blackmail, self-entitlement and constant whining, will eventually lead to their downfall.

what particular event, or events, were the turning point, as far as you were concerned?
Do you think that Israel becoming more "arrogant" and "radical" may have something to do with the rightly or wrongly, perceived intransigence of the opposing side?
At some point it may be that one's own security becomes more important than continuing to try to achieve a peaceful compromise, especially if the Arabs are seen as never bargaining in good faith.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

what particular event, or events, were the turning point, as far as you were concerned?
Do you think that Israel becoming more "arrogant" and "radical" may have something to do with the rightly or wrongly, perceived intransigence of the opposing side?
At some point it may be that one's own security becomes more important than continuing to try to achieve a peaceful compromise, especially if the Arabs are seen as never bargaining in good faith.

Like Iran repeatedly pushing to "wiping Israel from the surface of the Earth"?
Or even until very recently high ranking Iranian "dignitaries" (embarrassment I'd rather say, but... that's just me), Khomeini included, saying Israel is responsible for the creation of ISIS, the Free-Mason, "the country of these wicked Jews must be destroyed", "Israel must go and every Muslim has a responsibility to fight Israel".

Or pro-Palestinian, anti-Jew, anti-Israel happily chanting "Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahud, jaysh Muhammad sawfa ya‘ud" or its other variant "Khaybar, Khaybar ya Sahyun, Hizbullah qadimun" ?


Iran does NOT want peace.

It's all nice and hopeful to, well, hope. But it is vain and a waste of time. Like trying to domesticated an alligator into a cuddly house pet.