Politics Bristol riots against new crime bill.

[Jake84]

Not Brexit, not COVID-19 either but worthy of being reported. Protesters and police have clashed over a new crime bill in the UK:

Protesters injure police and set vehicles ablaze in English city, as tensions over new crime bill boil over | CNN

Officials have condemned violent scenes at a protest in Bristol, England that left police officers injured and vehicles ablaze, as tensions escalate between law enforcement and activists over a controversial crime bill that could curtail people's ability to demonstrate.

edition.cnn.com

 

[bfc1001]

Mixed feelings on this . Not happy with the violence shown but as we saw with the Sarah Everard protests give them a law and they will use it no matter how out of context in regards to the situation . Personally I think the west in general will incrementally slide into a more authoritarian idealism as central governments loose their grip on authority . We ve all got it to come and if I'm being honest I don't see the fight there to resist a la " brave new world " .
All in all if this law passes it will never be rescinded ever because governments are not in the business of devolving their own power base .

 

[Jake84]

Good point. I’ll try to focus on the UK here although I agree overall and we have had a similar law being passed through the French parliament earlier this year about protests. Not random a bit over two years after the Yellow jackets movement and other protests about another reform concerning the pensions and retirees.

 

[bfc1001]

Good point. I’ll try to focus on the UK here although I agree overall and we have had a similar law being passed through the French parliament earlier this year about protests. Not random a bit over two years after the Yellow jackets movement and other protests about another reform concerning the pensions and retirees.

It's the same playbook Jake . People protest with legitimate claims , a few idiots move in then the media work their magic to discredit the whole movement to get public opinion on side to put said protest down . I even remember the yellow vests , someone wrote something anti Semitic on a wall where they d been protesting . Next day it was wall to wall on the news . Could have been anyone including the reporter who broke the story in the first place . It's not hard to invent news in this day and age but people just swallow it up and never question it critically . I've virtually given up , the state will get it's wishes and the masses will cheer it on as history has shown .

 

[Mordoror]

It's the same playbook Jake . People protest with legitimate claims , a few idiots move in then the media work their magic to discredit the whole movement to get public opinion on side to put said protest down . I even remember the yellow vests , someone wrote something anti Semitic on a wall where they d been protesting . Next day it was wall to wall on the news . Could have been anyone including the reporter who broke the story in the first place . It's not hard to invent news in this day and age but people just swallow it up and never question it critically . I've virtually given up , the state will get it's wishes and the masses will cheer it on as history has shown .

This goes both ways
If we look deeper at the Yellow Jacket movement it was NOT so clean hands from the beginning (self appointed heads combined one far right member, one whacko conspirationnist, a woman believing in 5G ray controled by hollow Earth aliens and so on and so on).
But in the begining it was sold as the hard working people versus abusing state. When the people was mostly comprised (not only but a significant part of it) of retirees and people living on welfare (yes the movement hurt little shops and enterprises a lot)

Storytelling spins associated with internet medias and lack of in depth analysis by MSM (who rely too much on free lances or trainees to have a serious cover of .... well anything) have became the norm in our hypercommunication civilization

 

[Jake84]

Yeah, for the most part the YV movement was meant and designed to be supposedly apolitical and yet, now for what’s left of it they have vastly joined force with the suburban scums that got injured, sometimes killed during rough arrest (Adama Traoré and plenty of others come to mind).

That’s where, and when I’ve completely lost my interest for them. I don’t see a French cashier or care assistant have sympathy for the cause of some suburban troublemakers and thugs. They were from the beginning only looking for cheaper gas and wider availability of public service vs the ACAB nonsense.

 

[bfc1001]

This goes both ways
If we look deeper at the Yellow Jacket movement it was NOT so clean hands from the beginning (self appointed heads combined one far right member, one whacko conspirationnist, a woman believing in 5G ray controled by hollow Earth aliens and so on and so on).
But in the begining it was sold as the hard working people versus abusing state. When the people was mostly comprised (not only but a significant part of it) of retirees and people living on welfare (yes the movement hurt little shops and enterprises a lot)

Storytelling spins associated with internet medias and lack of in depth analysis by MSM (who rely too much on free lances or trainees to have a serious cover of .... well anything) have became the norm in our hypercommunication civilization

The truth is 90% plus of the YJ movement were just ordinary folk with legitimate greivence s but when it's time to organise the same narcissistic types rise to the top and the movement is destroyed. I find it astounding that we are seeing protest after protest in different cultures and countries all with a common purpose ; that people have realized your government doesn't really care about you ; but no common umbrella to unite under . We ve been here before but this time I don't see any way out . In a society of abundance and plenty it creates a lethargy and that's probably by design .

 

[bfc1001]

Yeah, for the most part the YV movement was meant and designed to be supposedly apolitical and yet, now for what’s left of it they have vastly joined force with the suburban scums that got injured, sometimes killed during rough arrest (Adama Traoré and plenty of others come to mind).

That’s where, and when I’ve completely lost my interest for them. I don’t see a French cashier or care assistant have sympathy for the cause of some suburban troublemakers and thugs. They were from the beginning only looking for cheaper gas and wider availability of public service vs the ACAB nonsense.

Who brought you that news though Jake ? The news is very clever . As they say it's easier to lie to somebody than it is to convince them they ve been lied to .

 

[Jake84]

Who brought you that news though Jake ? The news is very clever . As they say it's easier to lie to somebody than it is to convince them they ve been lied to .

Well an « important figure » of the Yellow Vest, namely Maxime Nicolle has staged a protest in Beaumont-sur-Oise where the aforementioned Adama Traoré was killed in July 2016 following his arrest.

He basically said that now he can understand the « wrath of the suburban youths » against the police as the YV were more or less treated this way.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Yeah, for the most part the YV movement was meant and designed to be supposedly apolitical and yet, now for what’s left of it they have vastly joined force with the suburban scums that got injured, sometimes killed during rough arrest (Adama Traoré and plenty of others come to mind).

That’s where, and when I’ve completely lost my interest for them. I don’t see a French cashier or care assistant have sympathy for the cause of some suburban troublemakers and thugs. They were from the beginning only looking for cheaper gas and wider availability of public service vs the ACAB nonsense.

Is it still going on?

What are they even asking for now? I mean, compared to the original movement that had no well defined demands to begin with?

 

[Jake84]

It’s not, I realize the COVID-19 totally eclipsed the yellow vest, which could be back differently though and Mordo and I agreed that we’re ahead of another social crisis mainly because of the economic repercussions of the lockdowns and shutdowns.

 

[surfpunk]

Who brought you that news though Jake ? The news is very clever . As they say it's easier to lie to somebody than it is to convince them they ve been lied to .

I never understood the viewpoint that if some "fringe" individuals are involved in a movement, that that somehow delegitimizes everything. it seems to be a subliminal byproduct of the pc mindset and cancel culture manifesting itself. lets look at everything under a microscope, and if there are any individuals we dont agree with, then its throw the baby out with the bathwater. does every single political movement or goal have to be stainless in its totality in order to be supported? of course the media will subvert any cause they disagree with either by hook or by crook, and push a political agenda they agree with by lies and cover ups, why let them be the arbiter of truth? good luck finding a cause to put ones weight behind only if every single individual/ organization involved must be pure as the driven snow.

 

[bfc1001]

Well an « important figure » of the Yellow Vest, namely Maxime Nicolle has staged a protest in Beaumont-sur-Oise where the aforementioned Adama Traoré was killed in July 2016 following his arrest.

He basically said that now he can understand the « wrath of the suburban youths » against the police as the YV were more or less treated this way.

Hard to comment on it Jake . Do remember , during the height of the YV riots there was a near media blackout in the UK apart from when things got violent from the protestors side but that's all you ever hear . You don't hear about the injustice shown against the protestors , just the damage caused by said protestors .

 

[Mordoror]

The truth is 90% plus of the YJ movement were just ordinary folk with legitimate greivence s but when it's time to organise the same narcissistic types rise to the top and the movement is destroyed. I find it astounding that we are seeing protest after protest in different cultures and countries all with a common purpose ; that people have realized your government doesn't really care about you ; but no common umbrella to unite under . We ve been here before but this time I don't see any way out . In a society of abundance and plenty it creates a lethargy and that's probably by design .

Who has not grievences ?
Issues is that these "spontaneous" movments are not so spontaneous and not representing the people they say they are representing

The majority of the YJ movements even in the beginning were people that were not the lower middle class (those the most exposed) but
- retirees (while mean pension > mean salary)
- welfare receiving people
- some anti system anti gov ideologists
-quite a few middle - middle class that found a way to protest taxes they could afford to pay
- a bunch of social leeches
-sympathizers to the movement (in the beginning, they vanished quickly when the movement went extrem)

When you are struggling, you cannot afford months of blockade/protest
When you have a small business you cannot afford months of blockade/protest
When you have kids to bring to school, hospital and take care off, you cannot afford months of blockade/protest

The conclusion of the movement is that a lot of small businesses were destroyed while Amazon and Co gorged themselves

I however agree that as always in a mob situation it is the 10% most vocals (so most extrem) who stay in the end and deligitimize the movement itself, whatever legitimity it may have before

That's the same principle in any large, long lasting protest/movement, in particular when not structured

 

[bfc1001]

I never understood the viewpoint that if some "fringe" individuals are involved in a movement, that that somehow delegitimizes everything. it seems to be a subliminal byproduct of the pc mindset and cancel culture manifesting itself. lets look at everything under a microscope, and if there are any individuals we dont agree with, then its throw the baby out with the bathwater. does every single political movement or goal have to be stainless in its totality in order to be supported? of course the media will subvert any cause they disagree with either by hook or by crook, and push a political agenda they agree with by lies and cover ups, why let them be the arbiter of truth? good luck finding a cause to put ones weight behind only if every single individual/ organization involved must be pure as the driven snow.

How many of these sporadic protests have we had over the last 4/5 years now and you can pick your country of choice at that . They all end the same way . The people are wrong the system is right . Law of averages at least one should get it right and some social change happen off the back of it . It's getting too deliberate now , too obvious to me but sadly the majority seem oblivious . Maybe pc culture does have the desired affect .

 

[Ivan le Fou]

How many of these sporadic protests have we had over the last 4/5 years now and you can pick your country of choice at that . They all end the same way . The people are wrong the system is right . Law of averages at least one should get it right and some social change happen off the back of it . It's getting too deliberate now , too obvious to me but sadly the majority seem oblivious . Maybe pc culture does have the desired affect .

#stopwhining

 

[Mordoror]

How many of these sporadic protests have we had over the last 4/5 years now and you can pick your country of choice at that . They all end the same way . The people are wrong the system is right . Law of averages at least one should get it right and some social change happen off the back of it . It's getting too deliberate now , too obvious to me but sadly the majority seem oblivious . Maybe pc culture does have the desired affect .

True
But a significant part of these protests are also because people cannot harden the f*ck up and feel entitled to -choose your poison-
I mean we can respect protests against low wages or bad job conditions. They are totaly legit. Protest because people cannot stand to keep a mask on the mouth are not. Too much whining sissies and social leeches here and there.

 

[muck]

As far as I'm concerned, the citizenry of a democratic constitutional state does not have the moral right to violently protest a proposed measure unless the very implementation of said measure would already irrevocably infringe upon its rights. The rules of the game are clear, and they apply to everybody: You feel aggrieved in your rights; you appeal to your nation's supreme court. That's why it's there.

Either the court upholds the contested measure or it doesn't. It doesn't, you've won. But if it does, you must be willing to entertain the possibility that your legal interpretation might've been incorrect. Torching cars should be the ultima ratio, not your go-to-measure of voicing your displeasure.

I'd argue there's an ominous trend in the Western hemisphere that's increasingly becoming the civic equivalent of "being offended". Many people seem convinced every law and every court decision they don't agree with must be wrong and may be ignored. But you know how the saying goes: Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

This nonsense began on the left (fitting right in, I guess) but in recent years it's spilled over to the right as well. By all means, defend your freedom; but never lose sight of the fact that a democracy is to be governed by the majority's will and that your fellow countrymen enjoy the freedom to lawfully introduce bills or to lawfully amend the constitution.

 

[Fluff]

I think you maybe over-reacting, this is a few hundred bored fed-up people. The pubs are shut, infected numbers coming down, and now being told there wont be a trip to Torremolinos this year.

I dont think they are considering a run at the supreme court.

 

[Jake84]

Oddly enough, one of the major movement protesting a government in Western Europe in recent years precisely didn’t start because of any measure of reform, @muck.

The yellow vests started because of the price of gas (The carbon tax as if little France of 65 million people had any major impact on the world pollution as opposed to China or India), because of a lack of public service and hospital, post office and so on.

I think the straw that broke the camel back then was the deep division between rural and urban France, which has easier access to said public services and doesn’t have to worry much about driving. Could this happen elsewhere? Probably so.

I think @bfc1001 hits the nail on the head; all tinfoil hat aside, it’s fairly convenient for plenty of govt to somehow monitor closely any protests while claiming that “peaceful protests are a right”.

Not advocating any violence against the Police or the cars of the random everyday Joe, ideally peaceful protests would be listened to but I highly doubt that’s the case.