Politics Riots in Gaza and Israel

[Jake84]

Hope someday both Palestinians and Israelis find peace.

I’m also politely seconding the nice sentiments.

IDF already replied and he knows better than me the situation there, or maybe @gilgoul could add some thoughts into this as well.

As Ivan said first Jewish settlers (escaping Pogroms in Europe and overall antisemitism) arrived in Palestine well before WW2 and there was already troubles between them and Arabs.

The post WW2 creation of the State of Israel. Which is about 73 years old now has been economically, military, and socially an astonishing success. Although I could mention some “tensions” between Ashkenazi and Sephardi at some point.

Many countries and their armies around the world take example on the Israel Defence Force, for a country of less than ten millions the size of a French region.

But you have as some pointed out here the troubles between Palestinians fractions themselves. Hamas etc

Ideally Hamas rockets and Israelis air strikes would stop, that’s what the UN and the world wants most... and if it does stop. Unfortunately I’m confident another conflict will/could erupt again in five or ten years.

 

[Telmar]

View attachment 307961

Long live the Palestinian spirit!

​

These people could have been in a home without hamas and without the countries who use the Palestinians for their poltical agenda. The Palestinians may be resilient, they are particuliary uninsightful.

 

[Telmar]

Just a reminder that you make peace with your enemies, not your friends.

Regardless of the situation, a civilized nation aims for peace...even through the wars it must lead to ensure that the peace is not at its expense. It may take years or decades but it has been done and it can be done again.

Many Israelis thought a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel was impossible as well. Even at high ranking levels. They were proved wrong. Then again, Egypt and Israel has leaders who knew what was war, and who knew what to choose. Both took immense risks. Sadat payed for it with his life.

...The entire world held its breath. Here was the leader of the largest and most populous Arab state, which had spearheaded repeated pan-Arab attempts to destroy Israel, visiting the contested capital of the Arab world’s foremost nemesis in an apparent acquiescence in the legitimacy of the Jewish State’s existence and its right to peaceful coexistence with its Arab neighbors. So profound was the general disbelief that the Israeli chief-of-staff, Lt. Gen. Mordechai Gur, warned the government that the visit was an Egyptian deceptive ploy, on the heels of the Egyptian-Syrian surprise attack of October 1973.
...

Israeli Attitudes Towards Egypt 40 Years After Sadat’s Visit

Forty years after Anwar Sadat’s historic visit to Jerusalem, most Israelis view the attendant Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty as conducive to Israel’s national security – yet they believe there ar

besacenter.org

 

[surfpunk]

These people could have been in a home without hamas and without the countries who use the Palestinians for their poltical agenda. The Palestinians may be resilient, they are particuliary uninsightful.

it seems to me that that "palestinian spirit" is being used as patsies by hamas and iran.
the iranians and hamas sleep in their homes every night, while these people are cannon fodder and useful idiots for them.
they could have whatever type of country they wanted, an ideal climate, on the shores of the Mediterranean, prosperous and peaceful, sharing that with Israel as a neighbor...
maybe what they have IS what they want... Maybe endless bloodshed is actually what they desire, because it doesnt have to be this way, regardless of what happened in the past, the present is now.

 

[Telmar]

it seems to me that that "palestinian spirit" is being used as patsies by hamas and iran.
the iranians and hamas sleep in their homes every night, while these people are cannon fodder and useful idiots for them.

Yes.

I hate to say it but they can' t digest their defeat and ask for a just settlement with the Israelis.

But it' s not only the Iranians doing their worst, the western nations with the "two state" goal have given them false hopes.

In the series "Fauda", comes a point where a Palestinian Authority leader travels with his son to Tel Aviv from Ramallah and shows him the skyscrapers, the people, the economy and tells him that there will be no going back, no removal of Israel. The Palestinians are lied to on a continous basis and not only by Iranians but also by us...They eat it up.

On the other side, the Arabs are also in Israel to stay.

 

[Mike1976]

So, in your eyes, never ending bloodshed is preferable to a Jewish state? You are convinced that violent conflict, is a better option than co-existence?

Look up the definition of "jihad" and you'll have your answer.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Look up the definition of "jihad" and you'll have your answer.

Yeah, but you "make peace with your enemy" so... I guess Israel is going to have to make concessions to a group of people literally willing to martyr themselves in order to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

Making peace with people who want nothing more than seeing you dead.

Cute.

 

[Telmar]

it seems to me that that "palestinian spirit" is being used as patsies by hamas and iran.
the iranians and hamas sleep in their homes every night, while these people are cannon fodder and useful idiots for them.
they could have whatever type of country they wanted, an ideal climate, on the shores of the Mediterranean, prosperous and peaceful, sharing that with Israel as a neighbor...
maybe what they have IS what they want... Maybe endless bloodshed is actually what they desire, because it doesnt have to be this way, regardless of what happened in the past, the present is now.

Maybe, but then again let' s not forget the 3 different situations at play here:

- Fight with Gaza, held by hamas and in a way an independent country attacking Israel and playing the victim card with the support of lazy (and occasionnaly antisemitic) media.
- Situation in the Cisjordania with the Arabs that lived in territories conquered post 1967 who are in a way citizens of nothing as an impossible plan to make a Palestinian state takes decades leaving Arabs and Jews living there in a state of uncertainty about their future....certainly not something that can create a better coexistence.
- The Arab citizens of Israel, mostly peaceful law abiding, and representing 20% of the population. A slap in the face to those who claim Israel is an apartheid state...But also a reminder that Arabs can live in the Israeli society without jumping at the throat of the first Jew in sight.

I think all three issues must be considered individually. And as IDFTanker said, the Palestinians being torn between Arab nationalism (that can be dealt with rationally), and islamism makes it impossible to find a partner to discuss with as long as they have not sorted it out between themselves, and perhaps also through violence.

 

[BCNTM]

View attachment 307961

Long live the Palestinian spirit!

​

Two more days and the lights will go out - can't see the donkey have they ate it

 

[FLYNAVY]

Top Democrat looking to delay $735 million sale of precision missiles to Israel

Gregory Meeks, head of the powerful House Foreign Affairs Committee and an AIPAC ally, wants to give panel time to review deal in light of Gaza fighting

www.timesofisrael.com

Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y. is not worthy to lick the sweat off my balls. I wonder if Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza would be attacking Israel if President Trump were still in the White House.

 

[BCNTM]

Met officer who shouted 'free Palestine' at demo under investigation

The uniformed police officer was filmed at a Palestine solidarity demonstration on Saturday.

www.bbc.co.uk

needs sacking - what we don't need is woke coppers

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Rep. Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y. is not worthy to lick the sweat off my balls. I wonder if Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza would be attacking Israel if President Trump were still in the White House.

Trump would have started WW3. Or WW7 or 8.
So many WW should have occurred...

 

[surfpunk]

In the course of doing a little research to the situation, it seems Jordan is the "Palestinian state", and if this is incorrect, please disabuse me of my assumptions...
The area known as Palestine, was never a country or a language, or any culture or tradition of any particular type of people.... Whatever countries or kingdoms that existed in the general area throughout history, no longer exist in the modern era, with the exception of Israel, albeit not in its current existence in an unbroken continuum...
Out of that area, two countries were formed, Israel and Jordan. These two countries make up the bulk of what is/was the geographic area known as Palestine... So, having said all of that, doesnt that mean that Jordan is the de facto Palestinian state?
Of the two countries formed from the geographical are known as Palestine, one was a new country, with no precedent in history, the other was a reconstitution of a historical precedent...

 

[Chazman]

Guys, let our resident IRI shill do his victory lap. It's all he will have to cling to. The part he doesn't articulate in his pseudo-rationalistic exultations of the "emerging ultimate hegemon Iran" is that this attack smacks of desperation from Iran's rulers. They are despearate for sanctions relief, desperate for financial breathing space and desperate in general.

They are running out of time, financially and demographically. What our shrewd "analyst" won't tell you is that Iran itself is in massive decline on all fronts, which inevitably happens if you pour more than half of your national resources into foreign terror proxies and questionable weapons programms while your average citizen can't even get the corona jab.

The name has escaped me right now, but the guy wrote under the handle of Spengler for a while, he basically argued that the more Iran's regime gets cornered the more they will try to escalate violence across the region in order to cling to power. Well, I'd say what we're seeing would fit that pattern.

Tomorrow the dust will settle, a lot of Palestinians, Syrians and other Arabs will be turned into red mist, Israel will once more pound Iranian targets in Syria while Russia looks the other way. Rinse and repeat.

Precisely.

Iran is not intimidated by Palestinian losses. Amazing to me that the Palestinian people have yet to awaken.

 

[Chazman]

Israel Kills 160 Palestinian Terrorists, Destroys Suspected ‘Suicide Submarine’: Reports

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) continued to pound Palestinian terrorists inside of Gaza on Monday night and into Tuesday morning in response to terrorist attacks launched against Israel that started over a week ago. The latest strikes come as more than 3,150 rockets have been fired toward...

www.dailywire.com

 

[Fluff]

In the course of doing a little research to the situation, it seems Jordan is the "Palestinian state", and if this is incorrect, please disabuse me of my assumptions...
The area known as Palestine, was never a country or a language, or any culture or tradition of any particular type of people.... Whatever countries or kingdoms that existed in the general area throughout history, no longer exist in the modern era, with the exception of Israel, albeit not in its current existence in an unbroken continuum...
Out of that area, two countries were formed, Israel and Jordan. These two countries make up the bulk of what is/was the geographic area known as Palestine... So, having said all of that, doesnt that mean that Jordan is the de facto Palestinian state?
Of the two countries formed from the geographical are known as Palestine, one was a new country, with no precedent in history, the other was a reconstitution of a historical precedent...

Having had a look, it seems to be a good dose of UK responsibility, but basically yes one large area was split by the Jordan River. In todays world of cars and trucks, we can think it would have been better to move everyone into neat area, but in 1920 and even in 48 would have been difficult.

Much as it must pain the Palestinians and their supporters, we are where we are, several wars have been won and lost, thus fudging the issues further, the current situation seems pretty untenable for either side - Israel doesnt have great security, and Gaza is a glorified refugee camp, living on limited Aid.

Options mentioned so far:

1 - Israel is 'moved' to America, Australia -How? By force, by whom?
2 - 2 state solution, Israel controls the borders etc.
3- Move all the Palestinians to somewhere new, Israel pays for it?
4- fudge on, kill yours, kill mine.....
5- Iran destroys Israel, remaining israelis evacuated to USA. - given this would probably involve Nukes and Iran getting nuked, probably not the best option, to 'help' the Palestinians.

To most of the west, option 2 seems to best compromise/cost - what does everyone else think?

 

[surfpunk]

Precisely.

Iran is not intimidated by Palestinian losses. Amazing to me that the Palestinian people have yet to awaken.

you would think they would see that they are being used....

 

[Mardonius]

These people could have been in a home without hamas and without the countries who use the Palestinians for their poltical agenda. The Palestinians may be resilient, they are particuliary uninsightful.

You mean the same Hamas that Israel helped to create because they wanted to undermine the secular leftists, and which has now bit them in the ass?

Blowbck: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It​

But did you also know that Hamas — which is an Arabic acronym for “Islamic Resistance Movement” — would probably not exist today were it not for the Jewish state? That the Israelis helped turn a bunch of fringe Palestinian Islamists in the late 1970s into one of the world’s most notorious militant groups? That Hamas is blowback?

This isn’t a conspiracy theory. Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote

They didn’t listen to him. And Hamas, as I explain in the fifth installment of my short film series for The Intercept on blowback, was the result. To be clear: First, the Israelis helped build up a militant strain of Palestinian political Islam, in the form of Hamas and its Muslim Brotherhood precursors; then, the Israelis switched tack and tried to bomb, besiege, and blockade it out of existence.

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

 

[surfpunk]

Precisely.

Iran is not intimidated by Palestinian losses. Amazing to me that the Palestinian people have yet to awaken.

what does Iran get out of all of this? How is their success as a country contingent on this behavior? What part of their national interest, their economy, depends on trying to bleed the Palestinians/Israel/themselves dry? None of their actions have led to anything good, nothing positive, how is it that the leaders of Iran see women and children dying as absolutely necessary to accomplish their goals?
Its not all on Iran, the Palestinians themselves seem to have no problem immolating their own women and children... SMH
Is it the religious differences? The enmity of arab muslims towards jews that is codified in the koran for all time, no chance of abrogation?

 

[Mardonius]

you would think they would see that they are being used....

Iran uses the Palestinians as much as they use Iran. There is simply an overlap of interests between both partners.

what does Iran get out of all of this? How is their success as a country contingent on this behavior? What part of their national interest, their economy, depends on trying to bleed the Palestinians/Israel/themselves dry? None of their actions have led to anything good, nothing positive, how is it that the leaders of Iran see women and children dying as absolutely necessary to accomplish their goals?
Its not all on Iran, the Palestinians themselves seem to have no problem immolating their own women and children... SMH
Is it the religious differences? The enmity of arab muslims towards jews that is codified in the koran for all time, no chance of abrogation?

What does the US get out of providing nearly $4 billion in aid to Israel annually?