Few new weapons

New Akeron LP 20 km heli launched 8km ground launched


Loitering munitions based on Akeron

 
The German F127 air and missile defence frigate programme has officially been kicked off with a contract awarded to Lockheed Martin for AEGIS combat system integration trials. With expected costs in excess of €15 billion for the construction, outfitting and armament of six ships, the new class represents the most expensive ship-building programme in German history. (Source)

F*** me. €2.5 billion apiece.
 
The German F127 air and missile defence frigate programme has officially been kicked off with a contract awarded to Lockheed Martin for AEGIS combat system integration trials. With expected costs in excess of €15 billion for the construction, outfitting and armament of six ships, the new class represents the most expensive ship-building programme in German history. (Source)

F*** me. €2.5 billion apiece.
Bloody hell @muck, at that price it would be cheaper to build them in Australia and that's saying something! 😅
 
That's the problem with German weapons procurement it's heavily overpriced.

Come on you get half a carrier for that price tag.

Also its a type of destroyer not only Germany needs wouldn't it be cheaper to pool the purchase of such vessels?
 
Bloody hell @muck, at that price it would be cheaper to build them in Australia and that's saying something! 😅
Yep. That's 600 Mio. more than a brand-new Arleigh Burke, which is arguably more capable in the surface-to-air-department. That's quite the contrast, even when taking economies of scale into account.
 
The German F127 air and missile defence frigate programme has officially been kicked off with a contract awarded to Lockheed Martin for AEGIS combat system integration trials. With expected costs in excess of €15 billion for the construction, outfitting and armament of six ships, the new class represents the most expensive ship-building programme in German history. (Source)

F*** me. €2.5 billion apiece.

Could've had 40 Pohjanmaas for that price.

Yeah yeah, they're half the size with less capable systems all around. But still, for reference. Think of the naval parades.
 
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Now to provide them the systems but not the missiles because "they might be used in a war"....
This SAM deal almost fell through because of that row. Last summer, Germany had designated Switzerland an "unreliable state actor", reserving the right to ban Swiss companies from bidding for German government tenders. The Swiss were very salty about that.
Norway needs a replacement AEGIS ship anyway after they sunk one by accident.
I do wonder if the large price tag might ruin Germany's chances here.
 
This SAM deal almost fell through because of that row. Last summer, Germany had designated Switzerland an "unreliable state actor", reserving the right to ban Swiss companies from bidding for German government tenders. The Swiss were very salty about that.
I do wonder if the large price tag might ruin Germany's chances here.

Was that about those Leo tanks Switzerland did not want to be sold to Ukraine?
 
This SAM deal almost fell through because of that row. Last summer, Germany had designated Switzerland an "unreliable state actor", reserving the right to ban Swiss companies from bidding for German government tenders. The Swiss were very salty about that.
I do wonder if the large price tag might ruin Germany's chances here.
The Fridtjof Nansen class ship that was lost cost approx. $453m. For comparison back then a comparable but slightly more capable Zeven Provinciën class cost $680m.

The successor of the ZP class is expected to cost upwards of €1,5b. The successor of the Sachsen class, the F127 more than €2,5b. An F127 sounds overly ambitious for a regionally focussed navy.

Imo they'd be better off buying similar sized multi-purpose replacements for their four remaining frigates and buying several ASW corvettes instead of an F127.
 
Was that about those Leo tanks Switzerland did not want to be sold to Ukraine?
I think it's more of a tally adding up, like not being allowed to export the cannon rounds.

Germany has since started producing it's own. Switzerland seems intent on turning the factories producing it's swords into plough share factories.
 
Was that about those Leo tanks Switzerland did not want to be sold to Ukraine?
No, it was about a legal opinion which had emerged in a row about SPAAG ammunition earmarked for Ukraine. The ammo, which had been produced by Rheinmetall's Swiss branch, was already in German possession. (The Swiss government had made its original export permit contingent on being given a veto right to block any use which they felt violates their neutrality.)

It had been assumed at the time they would want to veto in accordance with international law, i.e. no re-sale without approval and no use in wars of aggression. International law does not explicitly ban neutral states from selling arms to belligerent nations nor requires neutrality in a war of defence.

The Swiss say otherwise, though, citing their ancient declaration of neutrality, but in doing so ignore that the erstwhile right of nations to wage war is now defunct. Their local laws go far beyond what international law requires them to do.

In 2024, Germany asked for clarification on what would happen if we came under attack from Russia. The Swiss replied they make no distinction between aggressor and victim, and reserve the right to cease all supplies even if it means breaking existing contracts. But they didn't stop there, they indicated they might even veto Germany's use of Swiss-made weapons in defence.

Germany responded by banning Swiss companies from tenders with security implications.

The best part is the Swiss left was really salty about that decision, accusing Germany of blackmail and ignoring Switzerland's neutrality.

But in fairness, I hear the more centrist parties are trying to reform Switzerland's export rules now. They obviously realise Switzerland's defence industry is discredited under such circumstances. It remains to be seen if they'll get their reform plans past the pacifist left and its prolific use of direct democracy to shoot down policies seen as non-neutral or "militaristic".
The Fridtjof Nansen class ship that was lost cost approx. $453m. For comparison back then a comparable but slightly more capable Zeven Provinciën class cost $680m.

The successor of the ZP class is expected to cost upwards of €1,5b. The successor of the Sachsen class, the F127 more than €2,5b. An F127 sounds overly ambitious for a regionally focussed navy.

Imo they'd be better off buying similar sized multi-purpose replacements for their four remaining frigates and buying several ASW corvettes instead of an F127.
Fully agreed, although your price comparison isn't taking inflation into account. For example, Helge Ingstad's price tag of $453 million in 2003 would be about $790 million in today's money. And it wasn't a particularly capable design.

I do think they'll team up with Britain and buy Type 26 frigates.
 
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