Germany's minister of defence, Boris Pistorius, has stated that the German armed forces must grow to at least 420.000 troops in order to be able to meet Germany's commitments inside NATO (source). It should be noted that in the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany (a.k.a. Two Plus Four Agreement), the German government self-imposed a manpower limit of 370.000 on a united Germany in order to dispel British and Russian concerns. It is not an actionable clause under international law, but it would still be a significant shift in tone for a German government to decide the clause be ditched. Sanctity of contracts has traditionally been a raison d'etat for every government since Adenauer.
 
The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Italy of MQ-9 Block 5 Aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $738 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of Italy has requested to buy six (6) Unmanned Aerial System (UAS) MQ-9 Block 5 Aircraft; three (3) Unmanned Aerial System (UAS) MQ-9 Mobile Ground Control Stations (MGCS); twelve (12) AN/DAS-4 Multi-spectral Target Systems; nine (9) LYNX AN/APY-8 Block 20A Synthetic Aperture Radars with Maritime Wide Area Surveillance (MWAS) capability; and one (1) Embedded Global Positioning & Inertial Navigation System (EGI). The following non-MDE items will also be included: Reaper/Predator engines; Ruggedized Aircraft Maintenance Test Stations (RAMTS); AN/ARC-210 Ultra High Frequency (UHF)/Very High Frequency (VHF) Radios (RT-2036); Ground Data Terminals (GDT) (line of sight link); AN/PYQ-10 Simple Key Loaders; KIV-77 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) Cryptographic Applique; Transponder IFF AN/APX-119; KY100M Narrowband/Wideband terminal communications security (COMSEC) device; UAS MQ-9 Fixed Ground Control System (FGCS); satellite communications (SATCOM) Earth Terminal Subsystems (SETSS); precision navigation; integration and test support and equipment; aircraft or engine support equipment; spare parts, consumables and accessories, and repair and return support; major modifications, maintenance, and maintenance support; facilities and construction support; transportation and airlift support; classified and unclassified software delivery and support; classified and unclassified publications and technical documentation; personnel training and training equipment; special insurance and warranties; studies and surveys; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $738 million.
1724226550329.webp

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/italy-mq-9-block-5-aircraft
 
The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Germany of PATRIOT Advanced Capability-3 Missile Segment Enhancement Missiles and related equipment for an estimated cost of $5.0 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of Germany has requested to buy up to six hundred (600) PATRIOT Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) missiles (includes ten (10) fly-to-buy missiles). The following non-MDE items will also be included: tools and test equipment; range and test programs; support equipment; associated publications and technical documentation; training equipment; spare and repair parts; new equipment training; transportation; quality assurance team support; U.S. Government and contractor technical assistance, engineering, and logistics support services; systems integration and checkout; field office support; participation in the International Engineering Services Program and Field Surveillance Programs; launcher modification kits; MSE conversion kits; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $5.0 billion.
1724236514179.webp

https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/ma...nced-capability-3-missile-segment-enhancement
 
Denmark has finalized the procurement of over 100 CV9035 MKIIIC (Armed with a Bushmaster III 35/50 cannon) infantry fighting vehicles for the Danish Armed Forces.

The $1.5 billion agreement with BAE Systems Hagglunds will be executed in the next five years, a notice on the EU’s official procurement portal announced.

It is intended to drastically expand the current Danish fleet of 44 CV90s, enhancing the country’s military capabilities in the wake of the Ukraine war.
1724827189337.webp
 
The Dutch budget for the next fiscal year is released in the third week of September and in keeping with tradition most of it's been leaked already.

- The MoD will get a new operational HQ for independent planning, targeting and directing operations;
- ~50 Leopard 2A8s* will be purchased to re-establish the tank force (battalion);
- Boxers will be upgraded with auto-cannons to increase the firepower of the motorized units;
- Brigades consist of only two battalions, no solution in sight;
- Possibility of two additional ASWF frigates (2+2), decision on a possible third Belgian frigate still unclear.


* Contrary to the past with nation specific versions all of the Leopard 2A8 tanks will be identical under a German procurement initiative. Norway and the Czech Republic among others have already made orders.
 
The Dutch budget for the next fiscal year is released in the third week of September and in keeping with tradition most of it's been leaked already.

- The MoD will get a new operational HQ for independent planning, targeting and directing operations;
- ~50 Leopard 2A8s* will be purchased to re-establish the tank force (battalion);
- Boxers will be upgraded with auto-cannons to increase the firepower of the motorized units;
- Brigades consist of only two battalions, no solution in sight;
- Possibility of two additional ASWF frigates (2+2), decision on a possible third Belgian frigate still unclear.


* Contrary to the past with nation specific versions all of the Leopard 2A8 tanks will be identical under a German procurement initiative. Norway and the Czech Republic among others have already made orders.
Good stuff, thanks. Any possibilities of further Boxers or F-35s?
 
Good stuff, thanks. Any possibilities of further Boxers or F-35s?
The F-35 fleet was already expanded from 37 to 52, more is not going to happen because the number of airbases is limited and building any more on a country the size of a postage stamp is not going to happen except for under wartime legislation.

What would be the point of buying more Boxers when the current brigades can't be fully staffed?

The armed forces have ~8,000 jobs that aren't being done out of a total of ~40,000. Except for the reintroduction of conscription that isn't going to change. Ships are laid up as well because the crews just aren't there.

A new voluntary service year pilot like the Swedes have started out with a class of 136 students of which 126 finished and 102 of them signed contracts to be either active duty, reservist or civilian employee (1). There were several hundred applicants.

54 active army, 18 army reserve, 9 to the airforce, 5 to the MPs as well as 12 to the navy, 8 as sailors, 3 reservists and one as a civilian employee.

The program is being expanded to 500-600 candidates next year with over 3,000 applicants already.

@Musashi ; the -willing to serve-rate increased from 15% in early 2023 to 34% in early 2024, though no one knows what caused that shift. Might be more accurate polling I think ... IIRC the previous poll included all ages, so the rich flower power/"broken rifle"/NO to ICBMs!/one-sided disarmament generation may have been the majority of people polled, as they usually are in polls, skewing the numbers.

Polling only people aged 18-40 as it is the only relevant demographic would make more sense and I don't remember the exact numbers, but the figure among women was abysmal even in this age group.

But they want to be equal right? When they turn 18 and get their deferred draft notice in the mail all of a sudden reality hits them in the face? And they want to be mostly equal? :rolleyes:
 
Comedy at it's best.

Now that billions will be invested in the armed forces in the coming years,
many more personnel will be needed. Minister
Brekelmans and State Secretary Tuinman
of Defence are afraid that the gap cannot be filled
with professional soldiers and reservists and are also considering a
new type of conscription.

The old conscription will not return,
they write in the Defence Memorandum, but
a "service model" is being sought that provides for measures with a
(gradually) more mandatory character".
How to deny that you are bringing back conscription by providing the very definition of "conscription" as your plan 🤣
 
Reading through the Social Engineering document posing as a Defence Memorandum so far two things stood out to me:

- A resiliant ISR capacity that has a higher survivability than a Reaper. There were plans to increase the sattelite capacity, but if this was it they imo would have specified it;
- Plans to use active units to train conscripts in case of an Article 5. Problem is there are only two already understrength heavy and medium infantry brigades in the army, one partially in the Baltics and the rest as part of the German army would be fighting in Poland. The two marine raiding squadrons operating in Scandinavia and the air-maneauver brigade either as strategic reserve in central Europe or as a screening force in Romania or Bulgaria. So what active units?

No numbers for purchases anywhere as usual for the Defence Memorandum, although the number of F-35s will be increased within the three existing squadrons. From the way it's written it seems to be aimed at accounting for maintenance.
 
Last edited:
Between quotations marks = rumours

- "6 additional F-35s, squadrons expanded from 16 to 18 aircraft?" (Still less than the previous of 3 x 24 F-16s (on paper strength));
- As well as an auto-cannon (some of?) the Boxers will also get a Spike AGTM (same as on the upgraded CV90s);
- CV90 is getting a mortar variant (functionality lost when the YPR mortar variant was retired)
 
Oh and more NH-90s were ordered. Probably as replacements for the ones that have rusted away.

I guess every shopping spree has an item that you can't remember what possessed you to buy it ... 😑

@TheKiwi
 
These ships will only have 16 VLS cells which is totally insufficient. Similar role ship proposals for the US navy are being altered from 32 to 48.

Like with the German navy the Dutch navy is a symbolic force to "show the flag" and not much more.
 
These ships will only have 16 VLS cells which is totally insufficient. Similar role ship proposals for the US navy are being altered from 32 to 48.

Like with the German navy the Dutch navy is a symbolic force to "show the flag" and not much more.
Which we had that "symbolic force" 😢😞
 
Wish we had that "symbolic force" 😢😞
I wouldn't want to be a member of the crew when that symbol comes under attack from a credible threat and not some flip flop wearing proxies firing one or two 1970s AShM. These ships are useless in actual combat and unless they want to add more firepower it's better to not spend the money at all imo.

You can buy a €2B frigate or you can buy a €1,5B artificial reef.

Anyway you can buy two nice and much cheaper second hand M-Class frigates. Belong to old lady, you buy NAOW!
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't want to be a member of the crew when that symbol comes under attack from a credible threat and not some flip flop wearing proxies firing one or two 1970s AShM. These ships are useless in actual combat and unless they want to add more firepower it's better to not spend the money at all imo.

You can buy a €2B frigate or you can buy a €1,5B artificial reef.

Anyway you can buy two nice and much cheaper second hand M-Class frigates. Belong to old lady, you buy NAOW!
According to our chief of the navy frigates are a thing of the past and will cease to exist very soon 🤪 so why bother?
 
Australia buried their NH-90's with an old oak stake through them to prevent any chance of ressurection.
I still don't understand why, though. Apparently, Airbus even offered to buy them back and cannibalise them for parts. Since when do governments pass over a chance to make a quick buck?
 

Similar threads

Back
Top