• We are implementing a new rule regarding the posting of social media links and Youtube videos, the rule is simple if you are posting these links please say something about it rather than just dropping what we call a "drive by Link", a comment on your thoughts about the content must be included. Thank you
The Defence Committee rapporteur for the F126 in Germany's parliament has recommended the programme be axed. Bastian Ernst MP told the Diet today the programme is at least four years behind schedule and stated: "We must not try to keep that programme afloat with evermore money." According to 'hartpunkt', the Committee is "sympathetic" to Ernst's point-of-view. It reports that Berlin is scrambling to find an alternative, citing Russia's threatening posture as a reason for haste. (Source)
 
The F-35 was never a stop-gap measure. It's needed as a nuclear attack aircraft, bearing considerable symbolic value as it guarantees Germany a say in Uncle Sam's nuclear strategy (Two-Keys-Treaty). The Americans would hardly agree to certify the B61 for that plane, and even if they did, the French would never suffer sharing NGF's internals with them.
They did with Tornado.

I don't see everyone's obsession with working with the French. The development that lead to the Tornado also saw France walk when things didn't go exactly as they wanted it. Same as with frigate, IFV and tank projects. Short memories I guess in trying to shave off some costs.
 
They did with Tornado.
They didn't have their rival plane to sell at the time. Moreover, the Yanks actually looked at buying the Tornado as a replacement for the Phantom for a brief time (before the Wild Weasel task was given to the Viper).
I don't see everyone's obsession with working with the French. The development that lead to the Tornado also saw France walk when things didn't go exactly as they wanted it. Same as with frigate, IFV and tank projects. Short memories I guess in trying to shave off some costs.
From a German point of view, it's mostly nostalgia. Franco-German friendship.

Well, and to be truthful, they do have more aircraft-building expertise than Germany nowadays.
 
The Dutch government is providing a €270m loan to Damen to keep the shipyard afloat.
German business weekly 'WirtschaftWoche' claims Damen's financial difficulties are even more serious than previously known and may require a €450 million bailout. Bastian Ernst MP, the naval rapporteur in the Bundestag's Defence Committee, commented: "The cancellation of the project and a national solution are now inevitable." Stressing the frigates are urgently needed to fulfil NATO obligations in the Baltic and Atlantic, he warned that "the project will not be feasible under current terms." Ernst wants to "pull the plug now and organise an alternative at the highest levels". The Social Democrat leader in the Committee, Andreas Schwarz MP, proposes buying MEKO frigates from TKMS. (Source)
 
Yet another user dropping the NH-90 for a helicopter that works. There is a shock....
 
Why "yet another"? They made that decision known ages ago?
 
Another order for Patria 6x6, over 850 on order in Europe.

Denmark orders 129 Patria 6x6 vehicles from Finland to support joint operations with European allies.

On July 14, 2025, Denmark formally entered into the final phase of its participation in the multinational Common Armoured Vehicle System (CAVS) programme. This step included the simultaneous signing of the programme’s three concluding documents: the Research and Development (R&D) Agreement, the Framework Agreement, and the Life Cycle Management (LCM) Agreement.

These agreements were signed following Denmark’s earlier adhesion to the programme in April 2025 through the Technical Arrangement with the other participating countries. As part of this latest development, Denmark confirmed the procurement of 129 Patria 6x6 armoured vehicles, designated also as XA-300, from the Finnish company Patria. The order, valued at approximately 1.9 billion Danish kroner (around €247 million), is funded through the Danish government’s Accelerationsfonden. A limited number of these vehicles are scheduled for delivery before the end of 2025 to support initial training and familiarization, while the main deliveries are expected to begin in 2026 and will contribute to the rebuilding and modernization of the Danish Armed Forces.

The Patria 6x6 armored vehicles will be allocated to both the light infantry battalion and the heavy brigade. Their deployment will support multiple military roles including troop transportation, command post operations, communications, electronic warfare, and medical evacuation. The Patria 6x6 is configured to accommodate two or three crew members and up to ten fully equipped soldiers. It is powered by a DC09 Scania in-line five-cylinder diesel engine producing 294 kW and 1,870 Nm of torque. The vehicle has a maximum payload of 8.5 tonnes, an operational range of 700 kilometers, a maximum road speed exceeding 100 km/h, and can reach 8 km/h in amphibious mode. Standard protection is compliant with STANAG 4569 Level K2/M2a/b, with available upgrades to Level K4/M4a/b. The layout places the driver and commander in the front, the engine behind the driver, and the troop compartment in the rear, with a passage on the right side for internal access. Suspension options include independent coil springs or hydropneumatic systems, and the chassis incorporates structural elements derived from the Patria AMVXP platform.

The CAVS programme began in 2019 as a cooperative initiative between Finland and Latvia with the goal of developing and procuring a standardized 6x6 armoured vehicle system. Sweden joined in 2022 during the research and development phase, and Germany followed in 2023 by signing the Technical Arrangement and subsequently joining the Framework Agreement. As of 2025, participating nations include Finland, Latvia, Sweden, Germany, and Denmark. The programme remains open to other European states with similar equipment needs, subject to approval by current participants. Patria leads the platform’s development and has received cumulative orders exceeding 850 vehicles, of which more than 200 have been delivered. Latvia has ordered over 250 vehicles, including 56 command and control variants. Finland has ordered 161 units, including an initial batch of three pre-series vehicles for evaluation. Sweden has ordered 341 vehicles under the designation “Pansarterrängbil 300,” with deliveries scheduled through 2030. In early 2025, Ukraine ordered 42 vehicles, with first deliveries expected in summer 2025. Germany has requested a binding offer for an initial order of 300 vehicles, with a long-term plan to procure up to 1,000 units.

 
This came from todays meeting

 

Airbus will cooperate with Kratos to use it's unmanned aerial system for its mission package.

Range 5500km payload 500kg.

Service ceiling 15000m.

Optimized for cooperation with combat aircraft.
 
Regarding Germany's F126 frigate programme, 'Sicherheit und Verteidigung' reports that Dutch shipbuilder Damen Group has hit an existence-threatening crisis, with Belgium also considering cancelling a contract for three ASWF class frigates over indefinite delays. The article states that Berlin is looking for a replacement in ThyssenKrupp's portfolio, and most likely to find one in the guise of MEKO A-210, a general-purpose frigate offered to Australia. The author reckons that Germany could order twelve A-210's in lieu of six F126's, to replace all F123B's, F125's and K130 corvettes in one fell swoop. (Source)
 
Regarding Germany's F126 frigate programme, 'Sicherheit und Verteidigung' reports that Dutch shipbuilder Damen Group has hit an existence-threatening crisis, with Belgium also considering cancelling a contract for three ASWF class frigates over indefinite delays. The article states that Berlin is looking for a replacement in ThyssenKrupp's portfolio, and most likely to find one in the guise of MEKO A-210, a general-purpose frigate offered to Australia. The author reckons that Germany could order twelve A-210's in lieu of six F126's, to replace all F123B's, F125's and K130 corvettes in one fell swoop. (Source)
Besides the problems with Damen I can't help but think it's a convenient way to justify an alteration to the strategic approach of the navy. The F-126 is a 10,000+ ton displacement Tier 1 "destroyer-in-all-but-name" while the MEKO A210 is a below 5,000 ton Tier 2 multi-purpose frigate. Like comparing the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers to the Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates. A completely different beast.

The German Navy simply stuffed up. They ordered a significantly larger ship than the F-123 they want to replace, but with the design having only half the number of VLS cells of the A210. A ship the size of the F-126 design in other navies has 96 cells, not 16 like this luxury cruise liner.

For German/north-west European naval needs the smaller vessel in larger quantities would be a much better choice imo. This is simply correcting the mistakes of several consecutive governments without having to admit they were wrong.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top