Mil News Current Iran/Iraq/US Tensions and Actions Unfolding

[morris]

Iran is not only big, but also a natural fortress.

Looks like a high seismic hazard place rather then a fortress.

 

[Chazman]

Don't count on it.

Doesn't seem that you like that idea.

People want to be free. You can oppress them, you can kill them, you can imprison them, but if the flame of freedom burns inside them, they will eventually be free.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

No, Iraqi Parliament voted for withdrawal of US troops more than a year ago. UNANIMOUSLY. Americans didnt get a single vote in their support. So one year after US is still there and it seams theyre not going to leave any time soon. Speaking about democracy...

Isn't the Iraqi Parliament heavily aligned with Iran?

I remember concerns from Iraqi politicians addressing the issue and Teheran's meddling in Iraq's business.

 

[Mardonius]

Doesn't seem that you like that idea.

People want to be free. You can oppress them, you can kill them, you can imprison them, but if the flame of freedom burns inside them, they will eventually be free.

You're mistaken if you don't think that Iran's foreign policy and regional strategy has strong popular support.

Social issues will be settled gradually as the new generations replace the older ones.

But before thinking about national prosperity and such, Iran must first achieve strategic autonomy and sustainable deterrence to protect its independence. Which explains why the nuclear program, missiles and regional security policy are issues that Iran is reluctant to compromise on.

That is what you get when you have the CIA deposing the first democratically elected PM of Iran in 1953 and other scandalous infringements on the country's and region's sovereignty. The result is that countries like Iran are going to heavily focus on bolstering their security and deal with what they perceive as foreign threats with an posture of resistance.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Well, that would be a HUGE escalation. Did I say HUGE? The Mullahs are evil, corrupt and greedy. But they are not stupid. I think they'd rather screw the Iranian people over for a while longer.

You sure?

Two instances come to mind:
-the (accidental) shooting down of a civilian airplane and the subsequent denial circus.
-the death of the Iranian scientist, first blamed on "Jews out of Space" but then on traitors within the Iranian army collaborating with Israel.

Well okay, this is not stupidity but incompetence.

 

[Mardonius]

Let's all accept lectures on issues of competence from those whose former presidents are getting jailed for outright corruption and whose own military is heavily failing in places such as Mali.

 

[Deleted member 11302]

That is what you get when you have the CIA deposing the first democratically elected PM of Iran in 1953 and other scandalous infringements on the country's and region's sovereignty. The result is that countries like Iran are going to heavily focus on bolstering their security and deal with what they perceive as foreign threats with an posture of resistance.

Mohammed Mossadegh was as democratically elected as my @ss elected to be brown, by which I mean not at all. That particular POS was nominated by the Shah (big mistake), nobody cast any vote for him, as nobody elected his electors. You have spent too much time in the presence of gullible European liberal lefties who eat up your "wisdom" on account of your foreign background and who lack the historical wherewithal to confront you on your bs. BTW let us stop pretending that Mossadegh had no domestic opposition and it was all the evil CIA's work.

No foreign power can harm or overthrow any government without massive domestic backing, which is the same reason the French couldn't overthrow the Hanoverian dynasty in Britain and the same reason the Israelis actually can assassinate high profile Iranian apparatchiks.

Oh $hit I almost forgot this, but you pretending to care about democracy in Iran is quite satirical in and of itself.

 

[Mardonius]

The fact that the Islamic Republic has managed to chase away the nation's treacherous cretins to places such Germany, where they walk around with an inferiority complex contemplating about voting for the likes of AfD (who would've renounced his brown ass if it was up to them), makes Iran's clerical rule all worth it imo.

Let's hope for another 40 years!

 

[Deleted member 11302]

I understand that from your POV I'm a "treacherous cretin", don't bother thinking about what you are in my book. Decency prohibits me from saying such things. But to espouse clerical misrule that has cost hundreds of thousands of Iranian lives and has turned Iran from a burgeoning power into a poverty ridden culturally alienated pariah state abandoned in droves by its best people/human capital, simply to stick it to "people like me" reflects more loudly on you than anyone else.

Oh, I have not only contemplated voting for the AfD, I actually did it and since they are the only party in Germany that provides straight talk regarding your beloved clerics it's made it all worth it, imo.

Edit: I wouldn't hold my breath for another 40 years, but please be my guest...

 

[Mardonius]

You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

Iran is doing fairly well on the Human Development Index. The Islamic Republic has built a nice academic industry. It develops most of its own military equipment. It has become an industrial power. It is by far the strongest actor in the wider Middle East.

Not bad by a bunch of mullahs. Who cares if it comes at the expense of a bunch of treacherous cretins?

 

[Deleted member 11302]

We all need to cling to some delusions, healthy, pathological or otherwise. I wouldn't expect anything else from a dude who pretends to be some sort of shrewd intellectual analyst of politics while at the same time supporting shia theocracy.

 

[BCNTM]

English speakers please help me here.
How would you call a person which came for a visit and his host tactfully indicates to him that it is time to go home but he ignores the hints ?

Depends on if he can bomb you back to the Stone Age - but to be honest they are half way there already when you start listening to Allah's brother Mullah
Makes them look a bit ungrateful to be honest as they would not be in that position if the Allies had not removed Saddam for them - but you can't please all the Mullah's all the time

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Makes them look a bit ungrateful to be honest as they would not be in that position if the Allies had not removed Saddam for them - but you can't please all the Mullah's all the time

Makes you wonder if the Coalition shouldn't have removed Saddam at all to begin with.

Safety over freedom?
Iraq wasn't free under Saddam, it was reasonably safe (as long as Saddam had not a grudge against you) or safe-ish and, all thing considered, stable.

 

[Mardonius]

We all need to cling to some delusions, healthy, pathological or otherwise. I wouldn't expect anything else from a dude who pretends to be some sort of shrewd intellectual analyst of politics while at the same time supporting shia theocracy.

Iran's Human Development Index (HDI) in 1975: 0.571

Iran's Human Development Index (HDI) in 2020: 0.783

Nuff said.

 

[BCNTM]

Makes you wonder if the Coalition shouldn't have removed Saddam at all to begin with.

Safety over freedom?
Iraq wasn't free under Saddam, it was reasonably safe (as long as Saddam had not a grudge against you) or safe-ish and, all thing considered, stable.

His big mistake was invading Kuwait - should have just stuck to kicking Iran every so often - would have kept everyone happy - two armies with relative parity just having a tussle every so often

But the lesson is - see what you get when you try to be clever - you get trod on (Twice)

 

[Fluff]

Iran's Human Development Index (HDI) in 1975: 0.571

Iran's Human Development Index (HDI) in 2020: 0.783

Nuff said.

Never heard of it until now:

 

[BCNTM]

Iran's Human Development Index (HDI) in 1975: 0.571

Iran's Human Development Index (HDI) in 2020: 0.783

Nuff said.

70th

Country Insights | Human Development Reports

hdr.undp.org

Chasing Cuba

 

[BCNTM]

Never heard of it until now:

View attachment 284166
View attachment 284167

I am pretty sure life expectancy will go down very shortly

 

[Mardonius]

70th

Country Insights | Human Development Reports

hdr.undp.org

Chasing Cuba

Which still positions them in the high human development category.

And they would have ranked higher if not for all the sanctions and embargoes.

 

[Chazman]

You're mistaken if you don't think that Iran's foreign policy and regional strategy has strong popular support.

Social issues will be settled gradually as the new generations replace the older ones.

But before thinking about national prosperity and such, Iran must first achieve strategic autonomy and sustainable deterrence to protect its independence. Which explains why the nuclear program, missiles and regional security policy are issues that Iran is reluctant to compromise on.

That is what you get when you have the CIA deposing the first democratically elected PM of Iran in 1953 and other scandalous infringements on the country's and region's sovereignty. The result is that countries like Iran are going to heavily focus on bolstering their security and deal with what they perceive as foreign threats with an posture of resistance.

Sounds like you are simply parroting the party line.

It's obvious the people are not happy. There is discontent and anger simmering, and every time it starts to boil, the authoritarian leadership puts it's down brutally. You can only kill and imprison your own people for so long. If freedom truly burns within them, the people will eventually win.