Politics The EU is killing Europe

[Picanha]

Progressive deserve all the shite they cried for, sorry not sorry.
I feel sorry for the others like myself that never expected their countries to turn into shiteholes.

Well progressive is not woke but just leaving behind old structures favoring small heritary elites.

But some long for that again.

 

[muck]

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Don't care about ethnicity. We have different problems: culture and religion.

Most migrants in my country hail from other European countries. Italians and Croats in particular are highly productive members of our society. The same goes for most non-European migrants. Americans? Brazilians? Turks? Vietnamese? Productive members of our society. The ones who're predominantly not productive members of society have two things in common: They're either Muslim, and/or from Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia. They're the ones to whom we must bar our doors.

 

[Chazman]

Don't care about ethnicity. We have different problems: culture and religion.

Most migrants in my country hail from other European countries. Italians and Croats in particular are highly productive members of our society. The same goes for most non-European migrants. Americans? Brazilians? Turks? Vietnamese? Productive members of our society. The ones who're predominantly not productive members of society have two things in common: They're either Muslim, and/or from Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia. They're the ones to whom we must bar our doors.

Exactly. When millions of people enter a country, the expectation is that they will assimilate, become productive and take on the local culture. If the goal is to replace the local culture with their own, that then is a threat.

 

[thelistener]

"Nazi" is thrown around so much it has lost its meaning, it became a trivial word that ripped away the severity of what it means and threw to the garbage the horrors committed in its name for the sake of winning a kneejerk argument on the internet.

Fascist is much better describing word than nazi and even that is sometimes = authoritarian.
But i don't see how it's thrown around trivially when its describes certain things perfectly.

 

[thelistener]

It's down everywhere with world just hanging there at the rate of 2.2. Even India is now below replacement at 1.94.

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So, it's not about money, it's something else. I blame smart phones, and the internet, that have caused decrease in real human interaction. Just think about how youth spent time in the 90's - by hanging around in city centers, malls etc.

In the past you had to have certain amount of money to have smart phone and internet, that is why it hit richer countries first. Now they are available for everyone.

I think we need to think about how to get people to same spaces, such as having our teenagers in same classrooms (for example now we tend to segragate campuses according to main subject, such as tech (guys) vs health (girls).

I think the only way to get it to rise, is a major catastrophe that will boost birth rates. When Ukraine war ends we shall see if that old axiom holds true anymore.

And if elder care becomes so shitty that people will have to have kids, to have somebody take care for them when they are old. So making children directly for future labour. Kind of how like lots of children where a benefit directly for a farm in the old days, more working hands etc.

 

[Chazman]

Fascist is much better describing word than nazi and even that is sometimes = authoritarian.
But i don't see how it's thrown around trivially when its describes certain things perfectly.

New definition:

I disagree with you = Nazi!

 

[muck]

Fascist is much better describing word than nazi and even that is sometimes = authoritarian.
But i don't see how it's thrown around trivially when its describes certain things perfectly.

Again, two things can be true at the same time. The word fascist can be used inflationarily, and it can be a perfect way to describe some people or movements. I fully agree with @Chazman that the meaning has been obfuscated through inflationary use. Doesn't mean there are no fascists, though. Putin, for example, is most definitely a fascist.

 

[thelistener]

New definition:

I disagree with you = Nazi!

I think the left feels that way when people throw around the word commie. Even you have called the canadian lib party as such here.

 

[muck]

I think the left feels that way when people throw around the word commie. Even you have called the canadian lib party as such here.

In all fairness, I don't think that's a sound comparison. Call someone a commie, no one bats an eye. Hammer and Sickle are still regarded as innocuous symbols. Wear a shirt with the mug of the mass-murderer Che Guevara, and you're seen as edgy.

Besides, I don't think many lefties will mind being called a Communist, except maybe the moderate Democrats and Europe's Social Democrats. And even they will probably object over reasons of technicality more than anything else.

 

[primer]

If a German called Putin a Nazi on facebook is that against various laws? As its written nevermind public interest.

 

[tea-drinker]

The problem is the left is never forced to self examine, in fact are likely incapable of it. The left created racism and manufactured neo nazi's with their abhorrent anti nationalist policies but they will never admit it.
I've been worried about the backlash for years as anyone with basement level IQ could see - people being people - they will react.
So instead of changing course, the left kept creating todays circumstance and need to own their part in it.
A massive cut in NGO funding (deeper than US) needs to be done in Europe, this is how the leftist governments extend their power
and reach into the populace and media (leading to no critical views). And it's an enormous waste of money. E.g. here in Ireland we spend 7 billion per annum on NGO (official figure, real figure likely much higher) in a 5 million pop. country.
The right are not big in NGO and never will be. Only option is to cut.
No more money and houses for retired teenage girls who bang out a kid to get on the housing ladder. (oodles of tax credits though)

 

[Ivan le Fou]

I think the left feels that way when people throw around the word commie. Even you have called the canadian lib party as such here.

Well yes, that's because they are.

And unrepentantly so.

But #notallcanadians though. There are still some who are based.


And again, as Muck said, though "commie" can be used in a derogatory way it does not mean it will be viewed or taken as such. Communist iconography can be seen at most protests, people wearing pins and stickers with the hammer and sickle are common, and though they fell into the pit of "old-fashioness" there still are Communist Parties in most countries. With the whole iconography, books by Marxs, Lenin, Trotsky, & cie, the slogans, chants, and all the work.

And despite being a self-genocidal ideology, people don't see being a socialist or a hardcore socialist (aka. commie) as a bad thing. They are proud of it, it is a badge of honor they wear everyday, and they will go so far as to tell you why their ideology is legitimately good and valid.

Now, try that with the terms "fascists" and "nazi", or any of the symbols and media attached to it, and you will have a very different reaction. Usually coming as a knuckle sandwich.
Unless you are talking to these very brave and gentle boys wearing Historical Memorabilia taking the shape of skulls or various "electrician" military group of people. (though it is perfectly fine to simp for them in some circles...)

 

[thelistener]

In all fairness, I don't think that's a sound comparison. Call someone a commie, no one bats an eye.

Yeah exactly. The word has become trivialised more so than the other words mentioned here, i would argue.

edit. remember the context
I disagree with you = Nazi!/Commie!

 

[thelistener]

Well yes, that's because they are.

And unrepentantly so.

No, no they aren't. That claim has the same basis as some leftist calling trump's admin fascist. They use those same lines as you, word to word.

And again, as Muck said, though "commie" can be used in a derogatory way it does not mean it will be viewed or taken as such.

All well and good. But the point was that i don't understand the need to present
I disagree with you = Nazi!
as something that is present only on the left, when the right does the exact same thing but with different wording.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

No, no they aren't. That claim has the same basis as some leftist calling trump's admin fascist. They use those same lines as you, word to word.

That's a joke, hence the smiley.

All well and good. But the point was that i don't understand the need to present
I disagree with you = Nazi!
as something that is present only on the left, when the right does the exact same thing but with different wording.

No.

Not merely enough and as much.

Because the right does not have any of these "different wording" that has the same meaning, impact and carry the same kind of social/psychological influence.

And yes, the left has been the one coining the use. Because a "nazi" is "on the right side of the political spectrum", a "nazi" is "anything that isn't like us", a "nazi" is the absolute anathema of "our (left) values", a "nazi" is an individual so irredeemable it should not even be treated as a decent human being. It is used ad nauseam at the discretion of the user, who, most of the time, does not understand what the word means to begin with. Like a kid throwing a temper tantrum and telling their parents they hate them.

The right might call the left authoritarian, fascistic and the such, but these terms are much broader and do not carry the same weight.

 

[muck]

If a German called Putin a Nazi on facebook is that against various laws?

Nope.

The problem is the left is never forced to self examine, in fact are likely incapable of it.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

The left created racism and manufactured neo nazi's with their abhorrent anti nationalist policies but they will never admit it.

Here, I couldn't disagree more, to be frank with you. If you meant to say they keep racism alive as a tool to divide and conquer, I'd agree. But the left did not "create" racism. Racism is, unfortunately, the default state of the human mind. It's only (somewhat) overcome in functioning societies.

I've been worried about the backlash for years as anyone with basement level IQ could see - people being people - they will react.

Exactly. You pull the pendulum too far, it swings back as violently.

E.g. here in Ireland we spend 7 billion per annum on NGO (official figure, real figure likely much higher) in a 5 million pop. country.

You don't happen to have some link on that for further reading? 7 billion seems a lot compared to expenditures of 115 billion.

I mean, not every penny to an NGO is wasted. Especially not in the social sector. For example, here in Germany the Churches are heavily involved in running hospitals and nurseries, and get a lot of government money for it which I wouldn't call wasted (despite their more leaning to the left in recent years).

No, no they aren't. That claim has the same basis as some leftist calling trump's admin fascist. They use those same lines as you, word to word.

It's meant as an insult, but obviously not perceived as such. I mean, why are you objecting to its use here? Presumaly because it is, technically, wrong to call the Canadian Liberals Communists?

(The modern progressive left is roundly rejected by Marx-reading communists.)

All well and good. But the point was that i don't understand the need to present
I disagree with you = Nazi!
as something that is present only on the left, when the right does the exact same thing but with different wording.

Can you ruin a career by calling someone a Communist? You can ruin someone's career by calling them a Nazi.
Or how about hate speech laws? Poland is one of the few countries where the use of Communist symbols is outlawed similarly to the use of the Svastika. Most jurisdictions don't care about it.

 

[thelistener]

(The modern progressive left is roundly rejected by Marx-reading communists.)Can you ruin a career by calling someone a Communist? You can ruin someone's career by calling them a Nazi.
Or how about hate speech laws? Poland is one of the few countries where the use of Communist symbols is outlawed similarly to the use of the Svastika. Most jurisdictions don't care about it.

Well which is it; has it become trivial word or does it carry some weight. I dont see how you can have it both ways. I also wont pretend that somebody online just calling somebody a nazi will ruin someone's career automatically.

 

[muck]

Well which is it; has it become trivial word or does it carry some weight. I dont see how you can have it both ways.

Sorry, I don't understand the question. I don't see a contradiction on my part.

Was "Communist" ever an insult taken seriously, except maybe during the McCarthy-era? It does not carry the same weight as calling someone a "Nazi". @Ivan le Fou is completely right in this regard.

"You're a Nazi" is understood to mean "You're a racist, misogynist, homophobic proponent of genocide and totalitarian rule".

"You're a Communist" means, in the worst case: "You want to steal other people's money" or "You're an idiotic dreamer".

I also wont pretend that somebody online just calling somebody a nazi will ruin someone's career automatically.

Have you been living under a rock for the past fifteen years?
Google Justine Sacco, that's the first career-ending shitstorm against an alleged "Nazi" I can remember off the top of my head. (tldr: Ahead of a trip to Africa, she joked on Twitter "I hope I don't get AIDS", or something along those lines. Got called a Nazi and every other insult under the sun, and was fired by her company within hours of the Tweet blowing up.)

 

[thelistener]

Sorry, I don't understand the question. I don't see a contradiction on my part.

Was "Communist" ever an insult taken seriously, except maybe during the McCarthy-era? It does not carry the same weight as calling someone a "Nazi". @Ivan le Fou is completely right in this regard.

"You're a Nazi" is understood to mean "You're a racist, misogynist, homophobic proponent of genocide and totalitarian rule".

"You're a Communist" means, in the worst case: "You want to steal other people's money" or "You're an idiotic dreamer".
Have you been living under a rock for the past fifteen years?

So it hasn't become an trivial word then.

Have you been living under a rock for the past fifteen years?
Google Justine Sacco, that's the first career-ending shitstorm against an alleged "Nazi" I can remember off the top of my head. (tldr: Ahead of a trip to Africa, she joked on Twitter "I hope I don't get AIDS", or something along those lines. Got called a Nazi and every other insult under the sun, and was fired by her company within hours of the Tweet blowing up.)

Apparently since now that read about her i can say; That's not an example. She wasn't fired due to allegations by somebody of being a nazi. She was fired due to her racist remarks that caused outrage. Or are you telling me she wouldn't have been fired if people online only called her racist, but not a nazi by some people in the midst of the outrage?

 

[muck]

So it hasn't become an trivial word then.

Well, yes it has. As fas as insults go, you might feel compelled to call me a numpty or a cᴜnt. Both are insults, but one of them is usually regarded as fairly trivial compared to the other.

Apparently since now that read about her i can say; That's not an example. She wasn't fired due to allegations by somebody of being a nazi. She was fired due to her racist remarks that caused outrage. Or are you telling me she wouldn't have been fired if people online only called her racist, but not a nazi by some people in the midst of the outrage?

I still don't follow. May I paraphrase? A large number of people decided her stupid joke warranted branding her as having the mindset of the extreme right. And she was fired because of that reaction. Better now?