Mil News Western Europe Military News
- Thread starter John A Silkstone
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
A three ship class navy. So that would be the MPSS + ASW and AD frigates?
I assume the two Karel Doorman class frigates are going to be replaced in the 2030s?
I'm hoping Portugal doesn't use navy ships for coast guard duty?
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
Only a matter of time before they go back to defence plan "Wall of Oak"
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
- Messages
- 7,244
- Points
- 259
Actually the entire navy is now a coast guard...
The navy is in shambles. The Vasco da Gama does not sail since 2017. Has been canibalised for her 2 sisters that seldom go to sea. The 2 M frigates that took 2-3 years for a MLU ( more time than building a new ship!) also very rarely sail.
The only significant vessels we have are the 2 subs
This guy in the video is a dreamer. The only way we will have this ship ( maybe!) Is because it was sold as a civilian ship and therefore will have funds from the EU.
He says in the future we will have only subs, patrol craft, and drone carriers. He says we will have no frigates when the entire world is building frigates by the dozen.
Some say he is a visionary. Lets hope they are right...
Here is a recent photo of the Vasco
NATO began holding exercises Steadfast Defender 24, military maneuvers are now taking place in Poland. The video shows NATO troops crossing the Vistula; in three days, 3.5 thousand soldiers and several hundred pieces of military equipment were transported across the river. Leopard, Abrams, Leclerc tanks, Boxer and M2 Bradley fighting vehicles are used. Also, as part of the general maneuvers of the North Atlantic Alliance in Kozhenewo in northern Poland, the Dragon-24 exercise is taking place, in which about 20 thousand soldiers are involved.
The exercise will last four months and will involve 90,000 troops from 31 alliance member countries, 50 ships, 80 fighter jets and 1,110 combat vehicles, including 133 tanks and 533 infantry fighting vehicles. This is the largest NATO exercise since 1988. According to the exercise scenario, the deployment of troops in Europe and the simulation of a conflict scenario “with an almost equal enemy” are being practiced. The Bundeswehr will also conduct exercises, in which 12,000 troops will take part, as well as the 10th Panzer Division.
The exercise will last four months and will involve 90,000 troops from 31 alliance member countries, 50 ships, 80 fighter jets and 1,110 combat vehicles, including 133 tanks and 533 infantry fighting vehicles. This is the largest NATO exercise since 1988. According to the exercise scenario, the deployment of troops in Europe and the simulation of a conflict scenario “with an almost equal enemy” are being practiced. The Bundeswehr will also conduct exercises, in which 12,000 troops will take part, as well as the 10th Panzer Division.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
Another letter was sent to parliament, this one regarding the purchase of 6 LPX vessels to replace the two LPDs and 4 OPVs currently in service with the Dutch navy. It's unknown whether what design will be used, possibly one of the Enforcer models by Damen which comes in different sizes. The first vessel is hoped to be launched by 2032. Each time a new vessel is launched an old vessel will be decommissioned.
www.damen.com
The Enforcer series is based on the HNMLS Rotterdam and HNLMS Johan de Witt LPDs which it may be replacing as well as the British follow-up evolution of the design the Bay-class LPDs.
I'm all for replacing the OPVs which imo are nothing more than fancy coast guard ships more expensive than they needed to be. Unless they go with one of the bigger designs though getting rid of the LPD might be a mistake. Considering two large and four smaller ships are going to be taken out of service I'll bet they're of the smaller variety. The same trick was done with the OPVs, acquiring four OPVs to replace 4 M-Class multi-purpose frigates just so parliament wasn't seen as reducing the number of hulls in the navy.
Because of course a poorly armed patrol vessel is totally not a step or five back from an oversized full-spectrum frigate.
No mention of the (possible) British purchase is made, although it is known that the Netherlands is interested in smaller ships and Britain in larger ones which are both part of the Enforcer series. As long as the width of the vessels is the same they can use the same propulsion along with a lot of other interchangeable parts which should lower cost and make the vessels more interoperable.
For reference, all in meters:
Holland-class OPV 108x16
Smallest Enforcer 120x26
Karel Doorman-class frigate 122x14,4
Zeven Provincien-class frigate 144x17,5
Johan de Witt LPD 160x25,7
Rotterdam LPD 166x25
Den Helder Combat Support Ship (planned) 179,5x26,4
Largest Enforcer 180x28
Karel Doorman Joint Support Ship 204,7x30,4
Enforcers | Damen
The ENFORCER LPDs have proven to be both effective and adaptable, operating successfully in missions beyond those for which they were specifically designed.
www.damen.com
The Enforcer series is based on the HNMLS Rotterdam and HNLMS Johan de Witt LPDs which it may be replacing as well as the British follow-up evolution of the design the Bay-class LPDs.
I'm all for replacing the OPVs which imo are nothing more than fancy coast guard ships more expensive than they needed to be. Unless they go with one of the bigger designs though getting rid of the LPD might be a mistake. Considering two large and four smaller ships are going to be taken out of service I'll bet they're of the smaller variety. The same trick was done with the OPVs, acquiring four OPVs to replace 4 M-Class multi-purpose frigates just so parliament wasn't seen as reducing the number of hulls in the navy.
Because of course a poorly armed patrol vessel is totally not a step or five back from an oversized full-spectrum frigate.
No mention of the (possible) British purchase is made, although it is known that the Netherlands is interested in smaller ships and Britain in larger ones which are both part of the Enforcer series. As long as the width of the vessels is the same they can use the same propulsion along with a lot of other interchangeable parts which should lower cost and make the vessels more interoperable.
For reference, all in meters:
Holland-class OPV 108x16
Smallest Enforcer 120x26
Karel Doorman-class frigate 122x14,4
Zeven Provincien-class frigate 144x17,5
Johan de Witt LPD 160x25,7
Rotterdam LPD 166x25
Den Helder Combat Support Ship (planned) 179,5x26,4
Largest Enforcer 180x28
Karel Doorman Joint Support Ship 204,7x30,4
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
You and what piggy bank?!?
We sell stuff surplus for dirt cheap, but the cost for upkeep remains high all the same.
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
- Messages
- 7,244
- Points
- 259
As i said those are rumours. Money we have, just what our soon to be replaced government (hopefully) buried on the air carrier TAP would buy the entire dutch fleetYou and what piggy bank?!?
We sell stuff surplus for dirt cheap, but the cost for upkeep remains high all the same.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
- Messages
- 4,094
- Points
- 234
Because Germany has become so bloody good at wasting time, the Scholz administration has unearthed the previous government's Bundeswehr reforms plans – which Scholz ditched right after taking office in late 2021 – and actually embraced most of them. The key points:
- Authorised strength of 203.000 active troops
- The Joint Support Service and Joint Medical Service will be disbanded and downgraded to a unified support command
- Both services will hand over most of their land warfare related tasks to the German Army, including CBRN defence, military police, 31 territorial defence companies
- The Cyber and Information Domain Service will become the official fourth branch of the armed forces
- Germany's two major operational commands (one for abroad deployments, one for territorial defence) will be slimmed down and merged into one unified command
- An administrative structure to re-introduce conscription
The UK Ministry of Defense presented a video of the first tests of the first generation DragonFire laser weapon. The shooting was carried out in January at a shooting range in Scotland. The purpose of these tests is to help engineers create second-generation combat lasers. They are the ones that will go into service with the British Army. Laser weapons use beam combining technology to create a laser beam with increased power, reduced kill time, and increased effective range. The DragonFire 50kW laser weapon is valued at around £100m, with components sourced overseas. The test footage was published by British Defense Minister Grant Shapps. According to the UK Ministry, one “shot” from such a system costs £10.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
The first Apache AH-64E has arrived at it's home base in the Netherlands after having been rebuilt at Boeing in the US from the previous Delta variant. Until 2025 a total of 28 Apaches Deltas will be rebuilt into Echos.
Picture by defensiefotografie.nl
Picture by defensiefotografie.nl
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
As a surprise to absolutely no one Naval Group has won the contract to build submarines for the Dutch navy.
Classname: Orka
Zr.Ms. Orka (Orca)
Zr.Ms. Zwaardvis (Swordfish)
Zr.Ms. Barracuda
Zr.Ms. Tijgerhaai (Tiger Shark)
The size is said to be in between the existing Barracuda and Scorpène class with a crew of 35-40 and room for about 16 passengers.
What weapons these boats will have remains obscure. France doesn't want American weapons systems having direct access to it's software, so an intermediate interface is required unless the government wants to drop the implementation of Tomahawk and the Mk48 torpedo and going with French alternatives. Which doesn't seem that likely because the surface ships will have Tomahawk and the Mk48 has been in use for years.
It still has to be passed by parliament, but almost all of those morons couldn't tell a sub from a frigate, so I don't expect any problems there in regards to technical aspects, merely financial ones. This will be the most expensive project in the history of the armed forces estimated between €4-6b.
Classname: Orka
Zr.Ms. Orka (Orca)
Zr.Ms. Zwaardvis (Swordfish)
Zr.Ms. Barracuda
Zr.Ms. Tijgerhaai (Tiger Shark)
The size is said to be in between the existing Barracuda and Scorpène class with a crew of 35-40 and room for about 16 passengers.
What weapons these boats will have remains obscure. France doesn't want American weapons systems having direct access to it's software, so an intermediate interface is required unless the government wants to drop the implementation of Tomahawk and the Mk48 torpedo and going with French alternatives. Which doesn't seem that likely because the surface ships will have Tomahawk and the Mk48 has been in use for years.
It still has to be passed by parliament, but almost all of those morons couldn't tell a sub from a frigate, so I don't expect any problems there in regards to technical aspects, merely financial ones. This will be the most expensive project in the history of the armed forces estimated between €4-6b.
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2019
- Messages
- 6,672
- Points
- 378
I bet the AI has an Aussie accent…..
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 7,254
- Points
- 293
Weren't the Australian boats supposed to have AIP? The Dutch ones won't.
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2019
- Messages
- 6,672
- Points
- 378
Dealer upgrade…..
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2017
- Messages
- 41,034
- Points
- 463
The UK’s heavy-lift helicopter capability will be bolstered by the purchase by DE&S of 14 extended-range Chinooks H-47(ER), which will pump an estimated £151 million into the economy.
The new helicopters will significantly enhance the UK’s strategic mobility with their ability to operate in challenging environments. From the desert to the arctic, the helicopter has double the range of a standard Boeing Chinook and is capable of air-to-air refuelling, with the ability to carry up to 55 personnel or 10,000 kg of cargo.
With a top speed of 300kph, they will have new capabilities including an advanced digital cockpit and a modernised airframe to increase stability and survivability.
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps announced the commitment to proceed with the Foreign Military Sale contract after meeting crew members from the Royal Air Force’s existing Chinook fleet.
Through successful negotiations by DE&S and Army Capability with the US Government, the UK has reduced costs for elements of the programme by more than £300 million, ensuring value for money while providing our armed forces with a cutting-edge capability.
https://des.mod.uk/new-chinook-heli...ll-go-ahead/?portfolioCats=1235,78,735,69,734
The new helicopters will significantly enhance the UK’s strategic mobility with their ability to operate in challenging environments. From the desert to the arctic, the helicopter has double the range of a standard Boeing Chinook and is capable of air-to-air refuelling, with the ability to carry up to 55 personnel or 10,000 kg of cargo.
With a top speed of 300kph, they will have new capabilities including an advanced digital cockpit and a modernised airframe to increase stability and survivability.
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps announced the commitment to proceed with the Foreign Military Sale contract after meeting crew members from the Royal Air Force’s existing Chinook fleet.
Through successful negotiations by DE&S and Army Capability with the US Government, the UK has reduced costs for elements of the programme by more than £300 million, ensuring value for money while providing our armed forces with a cutting-edge capability.
https://des.mod.uk/new-chinook-heli...ll-go-ahead/?portfolioCats=1235,78,735,69,734
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2019
- Messages
- 760
- Points
- 159
Sweden signs a deal for 321 patria 6x6.
www.patriagroup.com
Patria 6x6 vehicle was chosen as the platform for a unique Common Armoured Vehicle System (CAVS) collaboration programme between several European countries, participated already by Finland, Latvia, Sweden and Germany. Finland purchased additional 40 6x6 vehicles in January 2024, which brings the total number of the Finnish purchase to 131. Sweden joined the 6x6 research and development programme in 2022.
Sweden purchases over 300 armoured vehicles from Patria | Patria
Sweden purchases over 300 armoured vehicles from Patria
Patria 6x6 vehicle was chosen as the platform for a unique Common Armoured Vehicle System (CAVS) collaboration programme between several European countries, participated already by Finland, Latvia, Sweden and Germany. Finland purchased additional 40 6x6 vehicles in January 2024, which brings the total number of the Finnish purchase to 131. Sweden joined the 6x6 research and development programme in 2022.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
- Messages
- 4,094
- Points
- 234
Similar threads
