Politics South China Sea Thread

Frogman comes out of submarine, cuts through anchor cables. Now it's floating loose in a major shipping lane and is a sea hazard. Well, no choice but to sink it by gunfire or tow it to "safety" in Haiphong harbour.
 
Frogman comes out of submarine, cuts through anchor cables. Now it's floating loose in a major shipping lane and is a sea hazard. Well, no choice but to sink it by gunfire or tow it to "safety" in Haiphong harbour.

Ha! That's the spirit!
 
 

I‘m a fan of National Interest, but I have to say It is a superficial puff piece with zero depth.

During the Cold War the Soviets never surpassed 60% of US GNP equivalency.

And in the 1980’s the Soviets got smashed proper by the Oil Glut(just as Putin’s Russia is being smashed by the oil glut today).

The Chinese economic engine is a far more serious threat that the Soviet Economy ever represented.

The Soviets never had One Belt, One Road(dwarfing Marshall Plan in inflation adjusted current dollars) nor BATH(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Huawei).

This isn’t just about conventional military domains, it also includes digital, economic, and political.
 
I‘m a fan of National Interest, but I have to say It is a superficial puff piece with zero depth.

During the Cold War the Soviets never surpassed 60% of US GNP equivalency.

And in the 1980’s the Soviets got smashed proper by the Oil Glut(just as Putin’s Russia is being smashed by the oil glut today).

The Chinese economic engine is a far more serious threat that the Soviet Economy ever represented.

The Soviets never had One Belt, One Road(dwarfing Marshall Plan in inflation adjusted current dollars) nor BATH(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Huawei).

This isn’t just about conventional military domains, it also includes digital, economic, and political.

I agree, it is a bit thin, but also makes some valid points. The USSR was always going to be spent into the the ground in a decades long Cold War. The CCP is in a different position, economically. They have infiltrated and and taken over many segments of society, commerce, and manufacturing, throughout the globe. This is how the "Middle Kingdom" gets dominance of the world. But in the end, it's all about the Party surviving.

If the rest of the world seriously considers decoupling the global economy from the CCP, which in a second Trump administration is a possibility, the CCP's leverage starts diminishing quickly.
 
The Royal Navy’s £3.1bn aircraft carrier this week carried out training exercises at sea before returning to base for supplies ahead of departing for major international exercises including the embarkation for the first time of both US and UK F35 Lightning jets. It is aiming to declare strike carrier capability later this year ahead of its first operational deployment in 2021.
But North East Scotland MP Andrew Bowie said the MoD had to “open its eyes to the glaringly obvious,” stressing that they should “step up to the plate” and deploy the aircraft carrier to the pacific.

Speaking to MPs in the House of Commons this week, the Tory warned the “size of the Chinese fleet and its rate of growth should be a clear warning of China’s determination to become a maritime superpower.”
He said China’s navy had expanded significantly since 2014, with the communist state’s fleet consisting of 335 vessels.

Mr Bowie, a former Naval Officer, added: “With the renewed rejection in July by both America and Australia of China’s territorial and maritime claims in the South China Sea, it is time that a truly global Britain steps up to the plate and meets this unwarranted and illegal encroachment with renewed assertiveness.
 
I‘m a fan of National Interest, but I have to say It is a superficial puff piece with zero depth.

During the Cold War the Soviets never surpassed 60% of US GNP equivalency.

And in the 1980’s the Soviets got smashed proper by the Oil Glut(just as Putin’s Russia is being smashed by the oil glut today).

The Chinese economic engine is a far more serious threat that the Soviet Economy ever represented.

The Soviets never had One Belt, One Road(dwarfing Marshall Plan in inflation adjusted current dollars) nor BATH(Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent, Huawei).

This isn’t just about conventional military domains, it also includes digital, economic, and political.

Thsi is a difficult Topic. To measure the real strength of a countries economy not only the pure numbers count. In the case of China I even have my doubts in those numbers as you can see with for example ICBC being involved in money laundering. I also think that corruption doesn´t help either in getting rid of such problems. You can try to trick the outside world for sure but it will not solve your structural problems.

They are playing a catch up game and trying to "buy" or copy technology wherever they can with massive state subsidies. I´m not sure if this will lead to the desired outcome.

I know a company that was bought by a Chinese state enterprise. They just leech all data set up Chinese CEO CFOs etc. which have no clue and have to have advisors to explain them what to do. Oftenly they also alienate the employees having the expertise as they do not want to simply be technology transfer vehicles and spending all their time teaching Chinese employees. The job market in the west oftenly still offers ample opportunities for them.

And slowly companies and employees begin to realize and accept this scheme as a reality. Not being too fond of always accepting the "money" and shutting up.

Another more vital point is that for a true economical superpower much is missing. Just take a look at the recent example of ARM and Huawei.

Lots of basic research and devlopment is still missing. And you can´t buy that, you have to do it yourself otherwise you will always be lagging behind and are prone to being cut off of it.

There is much western tech China depends on but I don´t know of much Chinese tech the West is dependent on.

Sure they can then illegally copy everything but thats onyl worsening it and no substantial solution.

Another example are the patents on 5G you Always read China has teh most but which are important and useful and actually used?

Most Chines 5G patents are also not registered internationally and even if, all other non Chines companies still account for the majority.

The results show that only just over 73% of the 5G families declared by Chinese companies have been filed internationally and only around 25% have already been granted by at least one patent office. This means that Chinese companies have by far the lowest grant rate and do not register as internationally as Koreans, Europeans, Americans or Japanese. European companies have the highest grant rate with just over 66%, followed by Korean companies with over 62% and Japanese companies with over 50%.




So my humble conclusion is they (still) can´t take on the World and I am not sure that this system is any more viable than the Soviet one was. Different yes, better adapted yes - but with inherent structural shortcomings.
 
As of now China doesn´t even prosess any processor Architecture, afaik. Thats why they can easily be shut out - a bit like the Soviet Union.

Just google MIPS64, Sparc or ARM64 and RISC.
 
Marine Corps’ Builds New Littoral Regiment, Eye On Fake Chinese Islands

"WASHINGTON: The Marine Corps is moving quickly to develop a new kind of infantry unit to challenge Chinese claims on small islands in the Pacific, while the Navy is developing new and smaller ships to move and supply them once they deploy.

The new Littoral Regiments won’t be fully fleshed out for several years, but Marine Corps leaders said today they will be bolstered by logistics and air defense battalions once they’re ready to go.

The Corps is wargaming “what assets would we be able to place in that battle space that are very low signature and that give us the firepower that we need to be a relevant force that provides consequences, should we get past the deterrence phase,” Maj. Gen. Kevin Iiams, assistant deputy commandant of Combat Development, told reporters at the virtual Modern Day Marine event today..."
 
Marine Corps’ Builds New Littoral Regiment, Eye On Fake Chinese Islands

"WASHINGTON: The Marine Corps is moving quickly to develop a new kind of infantry unit to challenge Chinese claims on small islands in the Pacific, while the Navy is developing new and smaller ships to move and supply them once they deploy.

The new Littoral Regiments won’t be fully fleshed out for several years, but Marine Corps leaders said today they will be bolstered by logistics and air defense battalions once they’re ready to go.

The Corps is wargaming “what assets would we be able to place in that battle space that are very low signature and that give us the firepower that we need to be a relevant force that provides consequences, should we get past the deterrence phase,” Maj. Gen. Kevin Iiams, assistant deputy commandant of Combat Development, told reporters at the virtual Modern Day Marine event today..."
What is old is new again, this seems to me to be a rehash of the pre-WW2 USMC coastal/island defence units that were comprehensively sidelined and destroyed by Japan in the opening year of the Pacific War. The current Commandant of the USMC seems to be on a mission to pretty much turn the USMC into a missile and air force, removing tank units and on the way to divesting all armour, less artillery.

USMC demanded Navy give them large amphib ships, then wanted light carriers which were evolved by removing well decks from the newer "America" class and now they want smaller ships to get the units ashore. IMHO the USMC has no idea what it wants to be other than not wanting to be what it was :(
 
The issues are principally budgetary, as much as anything else. That and the rise of an aggressive China, with the entry of conventionally equipped ballistic missiles.
 
Chinese pass new law , allow the Chinese coast guard to open fire on ship in SCS and east china sea , let hope in the next annual water game ( which Indonesia just found them self in for the first time this year and Vietnam have been common in the game since 2007-8 ) some hot head Chinese captain wont open fire seeing how Chinese become hyper nationalist recent year ( being attack in they view by west country and neighbor country ) this new law will be a ticking bomb for both scs and east china sea . plus about the Chinese economy yup they are not soviet ( who are bad at economy) the Chinese are extremely well connect in the world market now day , you cant do a block off like in cold war vs soviet , what will destroy china will be they youth , like a develop country there will be a time where the youth doesn't see the future or hope ( which Korean are now facing and that why a lot of Korean are leaving korea to go to southeast asia and other country ) which they will turn anger on the govt or society but then you wont see any of it anytime soon ( china current in the hyper nationalist period , where they are now world super power and able to challenge America and westerner , they are current in the period of japan pre ww2 or America after overcome the british to become world super power or the german pre ww1 period ) if we can maintain peace thing may change slowly the chinese will get over the hype and become more like American them self ( liberal and wanted social change ) which we will see the fall of CCP that why there is so call anti peaceful movement pretty much a campaign to crush liberal / youth who wanted to be more open mind and social change ) ( why peaceful movement ? cause the youth wont used violent , they will be like American protesting out in the street aka like 1989 protest in Beijing which nearly bring down ccp( America should have wait for few more year :) ) )
 
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“You are surrounded. Surrender!” PLA Southern Theatre Command sends clear message to the “enemy” in the South China Sea during practices, in ENGLISH!
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"In the interest of public safety, we're just going to let China have Taiwan"
 
Taiwan:
China sent 15 military aircraft into Taiwanese airspace between mainland Taiwan and the Taiwan-controlled Pratas Islands in the South China Sea on Sunday, Taiwan's Defense Ministry said.

A total of six J-10 fighters, four J-16s, two SU-30s, a Y-8 reconnaissance aircraft and two Y-8 anti-submarine aircraft, were sent by China, the ministry said in a statement.

It follows China sending eight nuclear-capable bombers and four fighter jets into the same airspace on Saturday.

Taiwan's air force was sent up to respond, the statement said.

"Airborne alert sorties have been tasked, radio warnings issued and air defense missile systems deployed to monitor the activity," said the ministry.

China, which continues to claim Taiwan as its own territory, in recent months has conducted almost daily flights over the waters between the southern part of Taiwan and the Pratas Islands.

However these flights have generally consisted of only one or two reconnaissance aircraft. The presence of so many Chinese combat aircraft on this mission — including an anti-submarine aircraft, eight H-6K bombers, and four J-16 fighter jets — is unusual.
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https://www.dw.com/en/us-concerned-after-chinese-warplanes-fly-over-taiwan-airspace/a-56327535
 
Philippines sending FA-50s to Whitsun Reef to buzz Chinese ships there
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Every time the Chinese lose face on the Indian border, tech front or international laws, they press the SCS as it is the only domain wherein they can win and dominate.

So far their fishing militias and massive grey navy buildup on the background is allowing them some quick wins that tbey can show to their people. As long as the west remains vague about the support and the ASEAN remains divided this will continue.

I don't think they will start a shooting war or push the 9 dash line hard, doing that would deplete their "stash", of small wins whenever they are humiliated.

This is why you see what looks like a two faced approach. They look like they will occupy and expand, at the same time appeasing their neighbours. As an aggressive neighbour like Vietnam or the Philippines would make a mistake and push them to go to war and ruin their "bank of quick wins." The mote their neighbours remain relaxed and not go into a military build up, the longer the charade or game will be for them to benefit
 
The fishing vessels arrived one and two at a time, dropping anchor off the disputed Whitsun Reef near the Philippines. As the Chinese-flagged fleet grew larger, the vessels tethered themselves together, hunkering down for a grey zone standoff that has captured policymaker interest throughout the Pacific region.

And with that, Beijing burst Washington’s deterrence bubble.

In congressional testimony last month, officials advocated for new, multibillion-dollar investments in long-range strike capabilities and a sophisticated missile system in Guam. These new platforms, it was argued, are essential to reassuring our regional allies and deterring China.

And yet, the Whitsun spectacle lays bare that Washington’s continued embrace of a costly, conventional deterrence strategy is alone unlikely to prevent Beijing from achieving many of its security objectives.

What’s more, China is banking on America’s prioritization of traditional deterrence at the expense of a robust, and potentially more effective, asymmetric strategy.

No doubt, American military supremacy has deterred China from achieving many of its goals. Nevertheless, Beijing has continued its incremental march forward in Hong Kong, in the Taiwan Strait and at various overseas ports.
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Via Defence News
 

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