Politics Riots in Gaza and Israel

[Telmar]

My take on the situation is that there are several conflicts different in nature playing at the same time.

The attacks from Gaza, an autonomous territory run by terrorists are intended to destroy Israel as an entity. They rely on the Iranian alliance. Support for Israel is quite natural 100% as Israel left the place, moved out the Jewish inhabitants, let them run the place, and it turned into an attack platform. Here, not only do I back Israel but I agree with them doing all what needs to be done to protect themselves. The method does'nt interest me, even if it does remain very sad to come to this.

The second conflict or source of tension is on the West bank. These people have been misled and poorly guided by foreigners who are not their friends, and they also have made very poor choices for themselves. However to have millions of people in your territory who are citizens of nothing while we wait for God knows what is'nt a long term solution. I think that under the misguidance of creating an Arab state, that will never happen, we just let the people sizzle in the unknown. The worst of them turn to terrorism and of course my support for Israel goes 100%. However I take the liberty to think that Israel has not set in stone the terms of coexistence in that region, and as victors, it is up to Israel to put rules in place that leaves them sovereignity, safety with a long term approach. That expropriation correction or whatever from 75 years ago might be perfect on a legal term, but is far from perfect from the perspective of running smoothly a territory with a foreign population.

The last source of tension, but I hope this is overblown, is the feeling of the Arabs that are Israeli citizens, that enjoy the full array of a nation based on democratic principles, and who live in conditions of comfort unheard of in the rest of most of the Middle East. If they start to feel as second hand citizens, then what a waste...But I don' t think we are there yet. I trust the rule of law in Israel to keep the peace.

 

[Fluff]

Ironically our resident Hezbollah member gave you the answer, he just presented it as a "bad position" to have. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is almost like a bellwether for what comes next in Europe, our spineless cuckold politicians regularly chicken out in order to appease the muslim populations in Europe, mostly to the detriment of natives and non-islamic migrant communities.

Britain has almost become a semi-sharia state, while France is constantly on the brink of a low-key civil war at the hand of islamists. Germany is constantly trying to buy its way out of confrontations with tax payer money and more appeasement to Iran's regime, which, by the way, was spending the 90s and early 2000s sending assassins to Bonn and Berlin to murder Iranian dissidents on German soil.

Bit of a side note, I think the UK has found the solution to the Sharia thing, there was a story yesterday about 2 non-binary people(no offence I hope) who were offended as the train conductor made an announcement 'Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and Girls'....

The train company then issued a groveling apology about inclusivity......

So while promoting white/indigenous culture/beliefs, is a no-no, I think we can move past the muslim thing, by promoting non-gender specific titles etc. Henceforth I'd appreciate you all addressing me as zie or when I feel like it Mr Zie Marshmallow-maybe, or maybe not.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

Hizbulla is showing up bringing bad memories to IDF

Oh look, the troll showed up posting the same old shite misinformation as before on MP.net!

 

[IDF_TANKER]

International law is not applicable in Israel case.. they can do what ever to the Palestinian freely until Hamas start firing rocket they suddenly got cold feet and all the bashing of them in cyberworld mostly from Malaysia netizen really make Israel 'Koyak'... Since Nakba 1967, Israel getting land through blood and killing of innocent Palestinian and evict them from the homeland.. this is the reality people.. the Palestinian plight and struggle is a proof show how the world is unjust, corrupted, biased.

Why, thank you for your brave words. I do feel painfully ashamed now that you pointed this out.

 

[Euroamerican]

...................

So while promoting white/indigenous culture/beliefs, is a no-no, I think we can move past the muslim thing, by promoting non-gender specific titles etc. Henceforth I'd appreciate you all addressing me as zie or when I feel like it Mr Zie Marshmallow-maybe, or maybe not.

How's about German-style "du"...... ? Du.... YOU... simple, rude and neutral.............. No Sir, no Ma'am, no recognition of any characteristic, other than you are a meat popsicle of some sort.. ;-) I know it's not exactly the same thing, title versus personal pronoun...... but...

Hello, You.... Don't even need to say your name, because names are not important either.......

 

[bfc1001]

All around western countries and particularly European countries, there’s a blatant bias toward the Palestinians from our medias (BBC, CNN, the rest of them). Some believe that because we have indeed a large Muslims population it’s quite convenient (cowardly?) to have far left politicians like Corbyn for Blightly or Melanchon in France blaming “far right” Israelis government for reckless and disproportionate use of force against civilians.

Very hard to guage anything from the news these days Jake . If your pro Palestine then there's a news feed to cater for your needs , likewise on the Israeli side . Along with politics news has become very pathological .

 

[jebirun]

Why, thank you for your brave words. I do feel painfully ashamed now that you pointed this out.

Im brave alright.. not all have guts to talk about Israel atrocities although it happen in front of their eyes... because what? to justify the Holocaust?.. give me a damn break.. it is just utterly BS!!!

 

[Jake84]

@Shelata has been put on a timeout from the thread for a while for a seriously out of line post (just deleted it) and antisemitism.

Rest assured that the membership and the mods will have no tolerance for this crap here. It’s not “reasonably criticizing Israel” what I just read here, and I’d rather not reveal its content.

 

[Telmar]

How's about German-style "du"...... ? Du.... YOU... simple, rude and neutral.............. No Sir, no Ma'am, no recognition of any characteristic, other than you are a meat popsicle of some sort.. ;-) I know it's not exactly the same thing, title versus personal pronoun...... but...

Hello, You.... Don't even need to say your name, because names are not important either.......

I had a boss who coul'dnt remember anyones names...that' s how you were adressed constantly, "Hey you!...random instruction"

 

[Mike1976]

Israel has never actually tried to secure their safety, because if they would Gaza would be depopulated and the terrorists and their families driven across the Egyptian border with an extensive minefield put in. US presidents decide how far Israel can go, not Hamas, not Hezbollah and not Iran.

 

[Faheka]

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Stupid people are everywhere. You can oppose what Israel is doing now, but you do not approve of someone who killed millions of innocent Jews and caused the second world war and killed 70 million people.

 

[Fluff]

Israel has never actually tried to secure their safety, because if they would Gaza would be depopulated and the terrorists and their families driven across the Egyptian border with an extensive minefield put in. US presidents decide how far Israel can go, not Hamas, not Hezbollah and not Iran.

True, and relates to the point about what Putin would do. 48 hours notice and let the fuel air explosives loose. Hence my suggestion that only a new nation for the palestinians would solve the issue, trouble is, they are not united, so they would probably trash the new place.....

At the moment I expect Israel has a pass for a few nights of mayhem in Iran, as long as it looks like a rocket factory, or the home of any official.

Given some of the Iranian fanboys on here, I'm kind of hoping for it, so we can see the effectiveness of their air defence, which is expected to be on a par with their internal security.....

 

[Ivan le Fou]

True, and relates to the point about what Putin would do. 48 hours notice and let the fuel air explosives loose. Hence my suggestion that only a new nation for the palestinians would solve the issue, trouble is, they are not united, so they would probably trash the new place.....

Problem is: Palestinian "leaders" have made it clear they will never negotiate with Israel, and their sponsors are making sure that line remains.

 

[Mike1976]

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Stupid people are everywhere. You can oppose what Israel is doing now, but you do not approve of someone who killed millions of innocent Jews and caused the second world war and killed 70 million people.

Is it just me or does the front of the bus say "Gay power"?

I wonder if according to them Hitler was right about gays too ... Education everywhere has been failing for decades.

 

[Fluff]

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Stupid people are everywhere. You can oppose what Israel is doing now, but you do not approve of someone who killed millions of innocent Jews and caused the second world war and killed 70 million people.

is Israel perfect, no. Are the palestinians totally innocent and working with the best intentions, no. Are other ME sponsors working with best intentions towards the Palestinians, no. Are the iranians using them as tools and fools - absolutely.

Israel and the USA basically offered the palestinians 'peace' and 'prosperity'. Sure it came with strings, but its better than having your cities flattened every 10 years - sounds like some distopian fiction when I write that - there is no 'struggle' when you have fireworks and the enemy has MLRS, satellites, drones, armour, f35;s etc. I know they have small arms, and some surprises planned should Israel go in, but its a fools war.

 

[Mike1976]

there is no 'struggle' when you have fireworks and the enemy has MLRS, satellites, drones, armour, f35;s etc. I know they have small arms, and some surprises planned should Israel go in, but its a fools war.

They don't even have to go in on the ground as they have total air superiority and highly accurate ground-based firepower. Whether it's tunnels, firing positions or fighting positions there is a common factor in all of this: construction equipment. Every time an excavator or crane is spotted you Obama it ... sorry I meant "hit it with a drone". Good luck constructing all of this stuff by hand, at that rate the next round of fighting won't be in four years, but in ten.

Yes building actual buildings beyond huts and shacks will be impossible, but they've brought that on themselves by misusing this equipment and the funds they were given for construction to fund and enable terrorism. Maybe they'll be more careful with the multi-story buildings they've got left instead of housing their "intelligence" agencies and headquarters in them. Then the EU can fund as much as they want and they won't even get anything built for the IDF to then bomb to bits again. I call it "Pre-emptive deconstruction"

 

[Telmar]

Israel has never actually tried to secure their safety, because if they would Gaza would be depopulated and the terrorists and their families driven across the Egyptian border with an extensive minefield put in. US presidents decide how far Israel can go, not Hamas, not Hezbollah and not Iran.

Egypt and Israel fired at each other quite regularly, until they stroke out a peace treaty that lasts till this day. The border with Egypt is open, you can cross...

There are no absolutes in these kinds of things...It' s a combination of small and larger steps that take you ahead.

The idea is to know what direction and where. And that has been a problem with this conflict all along. The two state solution is a messy solution: it guarantees Israel that the Arabs from the west bank won' t be Israeli citizens, vote and change the nature of Israel. And the rest of the world was thinking it was great and they could uphold the inital UNO resolution. But a state comes with contiguous territory, an immigration policy where you can' t build a house where you want as a foreigner, an army, a border...and that evidently was' nt that popular in Israel...and nor was it sustainable in a nation that is driven by a popular vote.

The realistic solution IMHO would have been to tell the truth of what could have really been done: to create some kind of federal territory that would have been responsible of education, economy, agriculture, local policing...Foreign policy, border defense, army and military grade equipment remains in Israeli hands...But the Arabs have contiguous territory that won' t change because someone wants to build a settlement or a farm somewhere...They don' t need to show their papers everytime they go to work on some other side. And eventually a few Knesset members representing the federal Arab territory as it is influenced by decisions taken by Israel..

The present finish line is just unreachable. The Arabs lost. They need to be told by everyone, not just the Israelis. And Israel needs to set up the terms of surrender in a manner that can be upheld for a long time. The small quick fixes, moratoriums, change of plans....reek incertainty...Noone likes that.

The Romans held an empire for 500 years, including Palestine. Of course everyone knows they have never "done anything for us".

 

[Ivan le Fou]

They don't even have to go in on the ground as they have total air superiority and highly accurate ground-based firepower. Whether it's tunnels, firing positions or fighting positions there is a common factor in all of this: construction equipment. Every time an excavator or crane is spotted you Obama it ... sorry I meant "hit it with a drone". Good luck constructing all of this stuff by hand, at that rate the next round of fighting won't be in four years, but in ten.

Yes building actual buildings beyond huts and shacks will be impossible, but they've brought that on themselves by misusing this equipment and the funds they were given for construction to fund and enable terrorism. Maybe they'll be more careful with the multi-story buildings they've got left instead of housing their "intelligence" agencies and headquarters in them. Then the EU can fund as much as they want and they won't even get anything built for the IDF to then bomb to bits again. I call it "Pre-emptive deconstruction"

Well yes, but by doing so, in other using the civilian population as human shield, how would you suggest they hide and place their command centers and weapon caches?

I mean, where else would you hide a weapon assembly line but right under a poorly maintained stockpile of ammonium nitrate?

Aren't schools, hospitals, residential areas, UN storage facilities made for that express purpose?

 

[Fluff]

Well yes, but by doing so, in other using the civilian population as human shield, how would you suggest they hide and place their command centers and weapon caches?

I mean, where else would you hide a weapon assembly line but right under a poorly maintained stockpile of ammonium nitrate?

Aren't schools, hospitals, residential areas, UN storage facilities made for that express purpose?

100% bombproof

 

[Lapzwans]

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