Politics The EU is killing Europe

[muck]

That's the main reason why I haven't bought a holiday home in Spain yet.
That problem has very little to do with asylum seekers but more to do with the stupid "ocupados" laws in Spain.
Many properties are occupied by Spanish citizens or immigrants who came from the EU.

Not only Spain has them. They often date back to the events of 1968.
Utter madness. If I buy a house and decide to leave it empty, that's no one's business.

Again not EU-related, though.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Happens all around the world, or so.

No real laws and legislation got enshrined to protect home owners from squatters.

And then you have the reasons rationalizing and legitimizing illegal occupation of empty houses: lots of people are homeless, housing crisis, people need shelter, right to live in decent/humane conditions (though it isn't a right), right to dignity (though dignity isn't a right), etc...

Same goes for empty business complexes, offices, etc...

 

[haze99]

You will own nothing and be happy.

Happens all around the world, or so.

No real laws and legislation got enshrined to protect home owners from squatters.

And then you have the reasons rationalizing and legitimizing illegal occupation of empty houses: lots of people are homeless, housing crisis, people need shelter, right to live in decent/humane conditions (though it isn't a right), right to dignity (though dignity isn't a right), etc...

Same goes for empty business complexes, offices, etc...

 

[thelistener]

Deutschland

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Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
A video with dubious context claim, in a thread about the EU, EU that has nothing do with that interaction on that train.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

You will own nothing and be happy.

Well, yes and no.

It is kind of a mixed bag issue in the end.

On the one hand you have people with lots of secondary homes all over the country, yet never go there.
Some don't go there because they don't feel like it, some don't go because it is something that got passed along from generation to generation without heirs even knowing it (turns out something like that happened to me a few months ago), some are using them to speculate to have the prices go up.

So, there is that aspect of things.

And another one is the housing crisis. Not the one affecting "normal" people, nut the illegal immigrants.

Bleeding hearts want to welcome all of the poor refugees. Problem is these "NGOs" and such have virtually nothing from a financial point of view, they have no money. They can't build camps, they can't manage them without having them turn into literal slums (ie. the Calais Jungle), etc... but on the other hand you have all of these houses, in more or less good conditions, running water, electricity, gas, rooms, furniture, etc.
Heh... like picking fruits from a tree with its branches crossing a fence. Who is going to stop you.

 

[muck]

@Ivan

Personally, I think squatting should always be illegal.

What I'm not totally opposed to is expropriation for the common good under some very limited circumstances.

Here in Germany, there are certain places (like the island of Sylt and some very picturesque Alpine villages) where like half the residential space remains permanently empty, as it is mainly being used by the 1% as stores of value. This leads to a situation where natives can't afford (or simply can't find) housing in their own communities any more, and have to leave. It can't be right if a native Sylt couple has to leave their place of origin to have kids because all building plots are owned by Premier League types and Dubai-based crypto bankers who barely ever visit. F*** them.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

@Ivan

Personally, I think squatting should always be illegal.

What I'm not totally opposed to is expropriation for the common good under some very limited circumstances.

Here in Germany, there are certain places (like the island of Sylt and some very picturesque Alpine villages) where like half the residential space remains permanently empty, as it is mainly being used by the 1% as stores of value. This leads to a situation were natives can't afford (or simply can't find) housing in their own communities any more, and have to leave. It can't be right if a native Sylt couple has to leave their place of origin to have kids because all building plots are owned by Premier League types and Dubai-based crypto bankers who barely ever visit. F*** them.

True.

Many such cases in France with these "Premier League types and Dubai-based crypto bankers" purchasing dilapidated castles just because.
But they don't renovate them, they obviously don't live in them, nor do they visit, or anything. They buy a ruin, that keeps on crumbling due to the lack of care, and the terrain (usually huge) is locked because the owner lives some place on the other side of the globe.

 

[haze99]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
A video with dubious context claim, in a thread about the EU, EU that has nothing do with that interaction on that train.

You are welcome, actually it has to do with the unvetted invasion of hundreds of thousands people (mostly men.) Who do not seek to integrate into your societies, bringing strife and lawlessness.

 

[haze99]

Why EU economic challenges are reducing its global influence | The National

Bloc struggles with technological stagnation along with declining productivity and geopolitical vulnerabilities

www.thenationalnews.com

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
A video with dubious context claim, in a thread about the EU, EU that has nothing do with that interaction on that train.

It is relevant to the thread, as it is yet another instance of the catastrophic effects caused by the absurd immigration policies adopted by Europe, and the damages caused by the "refugees welcome" collective suicide.

 

[thelistener]

You are welcome, actually it has to do with the unvetted invasion of hundreds of thousands people (mostly men.) Who do not seek to integrate into your societies, bringing strife and lawlessness.

It is relevant to the thread, as it is yet another instance of the catastrophic effects caused by the absurd immigration policies adopted by Europe, and the damages caused by the "refugees welcome" collective suicide.

No it isn't relevant.
It's a black person being loud and obnoxious on a train. From the video i find no evidence the description posted is true.
EU did not force a nation to bring this person in, nor does EU dictate policy on trains. In my country there are workers dealing with tickets etc. inside trains, that deal with this stuff, the fact there isn't one in the video is not due to EU.

It makes as much sense as me posting obnoxious drunkards in public, in this thread. Only reason you think it's relevant is your position on migrant policy, the person being obviously foreign and anti-EU stance and you mix those up and want to share hate-porn over here.
And yes, im a right leaning person when it comes to migrant policy, but what you're doing is clear.

I think there are some containment threads in this forum where you can post non-socially acceptable stuff migrants do and only about migrants.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Considering the man is speaking English with a heavy accent, while everybody else is speaking German (or some kind of Germanic language), it is safe to assume the man isn't from around here, and considering the "current" (years long) trend of migrants misbehaving, it is safe to assume that another instance of it.

This is the result of the EU migration policies and how, for years, doors were left wide open to illegal migrants for "benevolent" reasons. With, among others, Germany leading the charge with Merkel.
So yes, it is relevant. Decisions taken by the EU doe have impacts on European countries.

It isn't "hate-porn" it is merely pointing out a fact. It isn't "anti-EU" to point out a fact that rubs you in the wrong way.

So no, "what I am doing isn't clear". I am very critical of Europe when it comes to the decisions it makes and the various impacts they have on people, business, etc... It isn't "anti-EU" to say "well, you are really bad at your job, you have put us in the sh*ter for decades" when that's indeed what happened.


Now, you can also say "I am getting tired of seeing that poster everywhere" and take it with him.


And yes, there are people tasked with checking tickets in trains and other sort of public transports. However they are not always present, and sometimes they don't show up at all. Nobody said it had anything to do with the EU, that's solely linked to the company managing the transport.

 

[muck]

If EU law like the Dublin Agreement was actually enforced by the member states, the situation would be totally different. Under European law, asylum seekers do not have freedom of movement nor do they have to be set free until their asylum plea is decided. Why are you blaming the EU for what is shown in that video, then? The migration crisis is not of the EU's doing.

Repetition doesn't make that claim true, nor does finding random pro-immigration statements from some MEP or Brussels busybody bureaucrat. The law is the law.

The migration crisis has two reasons:

Firstly, the policies of people like Germany's Merkel and Sweden's Löfven, who against all advice virtually invited asylum seekers to come to their respective countries with a promise of "compassion" and easy access to the welfare state.

Secondly, the "you invited them, it's your problem then"-attitude of successive Greek, Italian, Serbian and Hungarian administrations, who instead of detaining illegal immigrants all sent them on their merry northbound journey.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Secondly, the "you invited them, it's your problem then"-attitude of successive Greek, Italian, Serbian and Hungarian administrations, who instead of detaining illegal immigrants all sent them on their merry northbound journey.

There also were threats of sanctions and various kinds of pressures on these countries.

Along with dismissal regarding the various issues coming with it. Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Serbia, etc... didn't want them for a variety of reasons, but let them in and had them transit to the northern "golden paradises".
Only Poland, I think, took measures to prevent the flow from reaching them or even going through. Which got Poland to be treated as a pariah state, with threats of sanctions enforced by Brussels:

Poland will be sued if it breaches Migration Pact, Brussels confirms

Countries that risk undermining the Migration Pact will be met with legal consequences, Brussels has said in a pointed warning to Warsaw. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

That European "Pact" didn't appear for no reasons and out of nowhere, but rather as a legal frame work to rein in countries that don't want to tow the line on immigration.

Anti-immigration mood sweeping EU threatens its new asylum strategy

The bloc’s migration pact, finally agreed after a decade of talks, is already in peril as states outdo each other in efforts to get tough

www.theguardian.com

"Being in the talks for about a decade".



Though not EU's doing, the migration crisis still is, in a way, as it was allowed to happen through and unofficial collective agreement. Letting the migrants in was seen as "the right thing to do", with lots of emotional blackmail to push the pill down. So, the EU might not have done it, but it sure didn't do anything to prevent it either despite calls for it... is there a term for "being complicit of inaction"?

Remember that story about the photograph arranging the body of a dead kid in order to get that one good shot?

 

[Redav]

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[thelistener]

My issue with shifting the blame to the EU on this matter is it muddies the waters and takes away from nations responsibility.
Since its a fact that most of the blame lies on individual nations policies.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

In the end, yes, the nations should wear the mantle of responsibility.

But we all very well know nations are directed by people who have their own career in mind superseding the need of the people.

The failure is systemic.

 

[thelistener]

But we all very well know nations are directed by people who have their own career in mind superseding the need of the people.
The failure is systemic.

Well i don't know that and i don't agree. A broad statement that i dont think should be applied to all of the nations inside the EU.

 

[muck]

There also were threats of sanctions and various kinds of pressures on these countries.

Well, that's because they violated the Dublin Agreement.

Only Poland, I think, took measures to prevent the flow from reaching them or even going through. Which got Poland to be treated as a pariah state, with threats of sanctions enforced by Brussels:

That's because the Polish government at the time announced its intention to conduct pushbacks, which are illegal. A legal alternative would've been detaining arrivals for the time of their being processed into the system.
Like I said, the law is the law. If it produces a negative outcome, it's to be amended rather than ignored. Though I disagree with the outcome, I don't disagree with their threatening sanctions. Historically, it's often been the case that member states weaponised the rule violations of others to argue they should be allowed to break this rule or that rule, too.

So, the EU might not have done it, but it sure didn't do anything to prevent it either despite calls for it... is there a term for "being complicit of inaction"?

No offence to you, but that's an argument that's always puzzled me. Surely, the EU can't be too overbearing and too passive at the same time?

 

[Redav]

Merkel ordered it. The other obeyed