Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[LimaCharles]

Your comment:
need I remind YOU of the very dictatorship Volodymyr Zelenskyy has done all along

Which you then explained by:
And by the way, are you trying to be obtuse deliberately? What's Ukraine's term limits as president (it's five)? What year is he now serving (six)? He dissolved the elections and nuked all 11 party opponents, in 2022 he made a law censoring journalists unless it was state approved and combined all news into one station. Show me contrary, your turn now.

To bring up these disbanded civil liberties during war time in Ukraine is clearly to paint a picture how Zelensky is a dictator.

Oh, you are being intentionally dishonest. I'll tell you what, I will bow out because I don't need to be seen winning which is the much sought after prize that you misbelieve that you need to win in this unwinnable argument of yours.

I said what I said. When something tyrant-like is on the radar, it's not something to scoff at. When wars are fought, in free countries it is no excuse to be a tyrant to control the narrative. When a country at war we are allied with or at least support, there should be conditions set for our wares and money. You as a Finn have zero say in US matters whereas I, a taxpayer, DO. My original post about Ukraine isn't going to get that land back no matter how much they are given in money and materials and it would take all of NATO to get it back for them which Russian backed into a corner and to save grace, would use that canned sunshine option. And lastly, those calling Trump a tyrant in here were contradicting themselves because Zolensky is more of one than Trump and this idiocy double standard had to be pointed out, but that's the hill you want to lay on while white knighting for another him.

I gave you the option of walking away head held between us both and with dignity, but you are choosing now to be immature and petty with continual lack of integrity.

Again, it's not so serious. You can't bend wills brotato chip. I said my peace, it's not going to change regardless and you can try to tag me endlessly but you will never win what you so desire to achieve with me. Please don't make me put you on ignore because you cannot be a grown man understanding that it's a disagreement and not barfight.

 

[Musashi]

Der Kampfesel 25 (r):

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[HorniePonie]

We are not supporting Putin. He is our adversary, That's the difference.

There is a lot of collaboration going on with him though. Now they are saying that there are negotiations about reopening NS2.

 

[thelistener]

Does Zelensky represent them or the Ukrainian people. Honest question.

I honestly think it cannot be answered factually by anybody during war time.

We/they can have opinion polls but if the question is: Do you still support Zelensky yes or no.
You and I cannot even know why people who answered no think that way. Some might say the answer is obvious by not making peace right away, but last july (according to one poll) 55% of Ukrainians opposed territorial concessions to achieve peace, so they might answer no because Zelensky is "selling them out" or some such

Now i don't believe that is the case when most answer no, but just as an example.

Even if he was unpopular, he has a mandate.
Im sorry, but i think if Zelensky had advocated for: peace at any price, 6 months ago. And his poll numbers sucked, many americans wouldn't question his mandate.
And i would agree, because sometimes leaders have to do things that the populace hates at the moment but they are proven right in the long term. (many such cases)
Mandates cannot be decided on poll numbers and unfortunately they cannot have elections at the moment.

I fear that when the war is over, and Zelensky loses (or doesn't run at all) these same pundits will say:
"See now?! he didn't represent the people. "
As if Churchill losing 1945 elections is an indication of his war time support

 

[PEMM]

Zelensky will not apologize.

Zelensky bruised but determined after diplomatic whirlwind

Beyond that, despite all the pressure of a three-year war, under all the demands from the White House which, fairly or not, has the power to protect or abandon his country, on Sunday night Zelensky stood firm.

He told us it was wrong at this stage to discuss giving up territory Russia has captured, and it was too early to be "talking about lines", which the prime minister had mentioned earlier.

He would not apologise to Trump or express regret for anything that happened in the Oval Office, which at the moment, the US president's camp is repeatedly calling for.

Even the boss of Nato called for Zelensky to find a way to reset his relationship with the US leader.

Yet in the stuffy room at Stansted, there was not much in Zelensky's tone that suggested he was interested in making nice.

He said he had travelled for hours to get to the White House - his visit was a mark of respect. He also said he would never "insult anybody" and the conversation as it erupted had not been a positive for anyone.

Zelensky bruised but upbeat after diplomatic whirlwind

The Ukrainian president is standing firm after his Oval Office clash with Donald Trump, says the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg.

www.bbc.com

 

[thelistener]

Again, it's not so serious. You can't bend wills brotato chip. I said my peace, it's not going to change regardless and you can try to tag me endlessly but you will never win what you so desire to achieve with me. Please don't make me put you on ignore because you cannot be a grown man understanding that it's a disagreement and not barfight.

It's not serious. I'm just genuinely interested in having this discussion because i want to understand a foreign concept to my mind, that i did not understand from your posts before.
When i said that I cannot wrap my head around this "issue" and wondered why americans bring it up. I was being genuine.
I'm just looking for good hearted debate.

Time is precious so i thank you for your time to respond, it's not taken for granted.

 

[primer]

US President Donald Trump’s outburst at Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelenskyy has rippled across the world, pushing democratically elected leaders - including Christopher Luxon - to distance themselves from the White House. The bizarre exchange - where Trump and Vice President JD Vance berated Ukraine’s wartime president - is just the latest in a dramatic series of American policy U-turns that have concerned traditional allies. The Green and Labour parties are now calling for the Government to trash any plan it had to join Aukus. Joining that military technology alliance would be seen as New Zealand strengthening its relationship with the US.

The logical fallout, bear in mind both sides voted to aid Ukraine with peacekeepers on ground if required pretty much before anybody else.

During Trump/Vance game of 5 d Chinese were in Ukraine and Russia and sailing around Aussie and NZ , to make sure the polititians noticed they began live fire unnanounced. Classic gunboat diplomacy that Trump ended up aiding.

Them along with the Afghan pres have this crystal ball.

Zelensky seems to be able to skate through life like Forest Gump movie performing strange miracles.

 

[Soldier35]

Official footage of the use of FAB-250 aerial bombs equipped with the UMPK module in Ukraine by a Russian Su-34 aircraft. FAB-250 M-62 high-explosive bombs were adopted for service in 1962, the bomb weighs 227 kilograms and contains 100 kilograms of explosives. The air strike was carried out on the deployment and concentration points of Ukrainian army units in the settlement of Gulyaipole, Zaporizhia Oblast. A video of the strike by the Russian FAB-250 bomb filmed with an eyewitness in the Kharkiv Oblast has been added.

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[primer]

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[Moonix]

Official footage of the use of FAB-250 aerial bombs equipped with the UMPK module in Ukraine by a Russian Su-34 aircraft. FAB-250 M-62 high-explosive bombs were adopted for service in 1962, the bomb weighs 227 kilograms and contains 100 kilograms of explosives. The air strike was carried out on the deployment and concentration points of Ukrainian army units in the settlement of Gulyaipole, Zaporizhia Oblast. A video of the strike by the Russian FAB-250 bomb filmed with an eyewitness in the Kharkiv Oblast has been added.

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That’s quite intense footage. The use of those bombs, especially with the UMPK module, shows how both old and new tech are being combined in the conflict. It’s a reminder of the ongoing nature of the situation in Ukraine.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

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[Musashi]

only UK and France, as they both have Nukes, for their own defence. Russia respects strength.

Putain does not respect strength but strength parity. The UK and France have 4 submarines each but one UK submarine is out of service. They can launch 112 (7 x 16) nukes which is nothing compared to how many RuZZia can launch at a time. Apart from that, the UK uses American missiles. The combined UK and French nuclear forces have no capability of decapitating RuZZia and Putain knows it very well. Both the UK and France are densely populated compared to RuZZia. So, each nuclear strike would cause more casualties.

 

[primer]

Zelenskyy was always going to say what he said...think about that.
Trump was leading, you're in trouble, you're loosing the war.

Vance Trump 5 d before meeting...Anger him when he doesn't say yes he is not ready for peace.
Or they are incompetent.

 

[haze99]

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[Fluff]

Putain does not respect strength but strength parity. The UK and France have 4 submarines each but one UK submarine is out of service. They can launch 112 (7 x 16) nukes which is nothing compared to how many RuZZia can launch at a time. Apart from that, the UK uses American missiles. The combined UK and French nuclear forces have no capability of decapitating RuZZia and Putain knows it very well. Both the UK and France are densely populated compared to RuZZia. So, each nuclear strike would cause more casualties.

And Russia is seeking parity with USA, and soon maybe China. 112 nukes is more than enough to render Moscow into rubble.

its not a football game, 50M surviving russians, dont beat 15M surviving Brits.

Their purpose is deterent, and so for so good.

I'm saying France or UK because if you dont have nukes, you can easily be threatened by a nuke country.

That is reducing, as soon Poland, and Ukr will have enough conventional cruise missiles to make a mess of Moscow, same for Japan v China, 2000 tomahawks is a good deterrent.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

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[Connaught Ranger]

@LimaCharles wondered about these same things few pages back

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Most members here (I dare say) cannot wrap their heads around why Tulsi is yapping about this (same things that Russian propaganda is trying to bring up). Ukraine is at at war, they have declared martial law, what can't Americans understand about this, even the highest officials?

Britain didn't have elections during WWII, it banned an opposition party and imprisoned its leader.
My nation did the same in WW2.

In fact, my nation would behave exactly the same way today if we were attacked. Maybe the European NATO members need give a lesson about this to US counterparts, so if, God forbid, things heat up in Europe, the Americans won't be surprised by this. And if you believe that the Economist is not fake news, my nation ranked 6th in the 2024 Democracy Index, while the US is ranked 28th according to them, if that matters to this discussion.

For very good reason - "Mosley's New Party became the British Union of Fascists (BUF) in 1932. As leader, he publicly espoused antisemitism and sought alliances with other fascist leaders such as Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler. Fascist violence under Mosley's leadership culminated in the 1936 Battle of Cable Street, during which anti-fascist demonstrators including trade unionists, liberals, socialists, communists, anarchists, and British Jews prevented the BUF from marching through London's East End. Mosley subsequently held a series of rallies around London, and the BUF increased its membership there.

In May 1940, after the outbreak of the Second World War, Mosley was imprisoned and the BUF was banned. He was released in 1943 and, politically disgraced by his association with fascism, . . . . "

 

[Connaught Ranger]

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[xuyantrop]

And Russia is seeking parity with USA, and soon maybe China. 112 nukes is more than enough to render Moscow into rubble.

its not a football game, 50M surviving russians, dont beat 15M surviving Brits.

Their purpose is deterent, and so for so good.

I'm saying France or UK because if you dont have nukes, you can easily be threatened by a nuke country.

That is reducing, as soon Poland, and Ukr will have enough conventional cruise missiles to make a mess of Moscow, same for Japan v China, 2000 tomahawks is a good deterrent.

We got ABM system around Moscow. 5 sites with 12-16 interceptors each. Nuclear warheaded. Launched at the same time SLBMs will come in group right? As I understand one nuclear blast will be enough to neutralize most of them. One doesn't need same amount of interceptors. At the same time you got nothing to protect London and Paris.

 

[Musashi]

What Poland has to do with Nord Stream 2 actually?

The same as all EU countries should have: Make RuZZia Weak Again. We should not be financing our enemies' economies and helping them rebuild their armies.

Becoming RuZZia's punk byatch serves just RuZZia, not the punk byatch.