Politics Thank you Russia, for existing.

[Mokordo]

If Russia did not exist, it would have to be invented, so, who is to blame for all our troubles?

Russia is always to blame!!!

Western intelligence services tracked Russian spy in Catalonia

Spain’s High Court is investigating whether a GRU official named Denis Sergeev, who carried out subversive actions across Europe and Asia, also tried to destabilize the region during its 2017 independence drive

elpais.com

Spain will no longer cooperate with Russia in fight against disinformation

Caretaker Foreign Minister Josep Borrell says there is no truth to this, although plans for a joint working group have been permanently dropped

elpais.com

 

[Ivan le Fou]

I wanted to buy some croissants this morning, but the bakery was out.

Damn you, Russia!

 

[Mokordo]

Do not laugh @Mordoror , you know perfectly Russia has much to do with this

Croissants shortage could cause destabilization in France, this in itself, destabilization in all western europe, and provocate the break up of the EU, what is exactly what Russia wants to seize power and move towards the domination of the entire world (and posibly also galaxy and outer space).

As Italians say: "si non é vero, é ben trovatto"

 

[Mordoror]

Do not laugh @Mordoror , you know perfectly Russia has much to do with this

Croissants shortage could cause destabilization in France, this in itself, destabilization in all western europe, and provocate the break up of the EU, what is exactly what Russia wants to seize power and move towards the domination of the entire world (and posibly also galaxy and outer space).

As Italians say: "si non é vero, é ben trovatto"

Yes
And they want to replace our crusty baguettes by their tasteless ljeb.
Bloody cossacks
Outrage!

 

[Mokordo]

Yes
And they want to replace our crusty baguettes by their tasteless ljeb.
Bloody cossacks
Outrage!

You must start to organize a new résistance to create a clandestine network of boulangeries. And don´t forget also the pattiseries, the loss of french bakery, cakes and pastries, would be what specially would I miss. Be ready.

Forgive me for making jokes with basic french clichés, I know they aren´t your favourite ones @Mordoror .

 

[bfc1001]

So Russia sent 1 guy and within days a whole region is destabilized ? I even clicked the link highlighted " subversive operations " on the El pais article and erm ...... nothing . Talks of assassination attempts on UK soil too , any evidence I wonder ?

 

[Mordoror]

You must start to organize a new résistance to create a clandestine network of boulangeries. And don´t forget also the pattiseries, the loss of french bakery, cakes and pastries, would be what specially would I miss. Be ready.

Forgive me for making jokes with basic french clichés, I know they aren´t your favourite ones @Mordoror .

You are all forgiven, it is still funny

 

[Mokordo]

So Russia sent 1 guy and within days a whole region is destabilized ? I even clicked the link highlighted " subversive operations " on the El pais article and erm ...... nothing . Talks of assassination attempts on UK soil too , any evidence I wonder ?

Yes, that is one of the points here . One russian agent only . They must be a few more russian agents here, and in any other country. Even form Japan or Argentina, or from any country in the world. There is a steady flow and presence of foreigner agents in any country around the world.

They support and help more to any cause giving voice and credibility any dissenting group, from their governement or from their media or via internet, than sending here a alleged "licensed to kill secret agent".

 

[muck]

Could we please not employ stupidity to respond to stupidity? Just because some politicians play the Russia card to deflect attention from their own failures doesn't mean Russia isn't actively engaged in attempts to destabilise the West. And why wouldn't they; it's a valid strategy.

 

[bfc1001]

Could we please not employ stupidity to respond to stupidity? Just because some politicians play the Russia card to deflect attention from their own failures doesn't mean Russia isn't actively engaged in attempts to destabilise the West. And why wouldn't they; it's a valid strategy.

Okay , so the tories spent years pushing Russian nonsense and now a report has been drafted on Russian interference in the UK . Now the tories are refusing to release it because there's nothing to see .

Russia report: 'No evidence of interference'

Johnson asked why report into alleged Russian interference in UK democracy has not been published.

www.bbc.co.uk

Johnson's words not mine . When push comes to shove it shows you what a complete sham it all is .
I'm sure Russia did send someone to Catalonia , to observe . I'm sure the Brits and Germans did the same , but that's about it . I've seen plenty of evidence that shows Western efforts to destabalise other parts of the world , not so much from the Russians .

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Russia interfered with the US elections to have Trump elected: no.
We got 3 years of that S**t.

Russia interfered with the UK Brexit referendum that was supposed to start WW3.
Apparently it was also false.

Russia interfered with the French presidential elections, so macron claimed.
Which was later denied by French secret services.

Russia got mentioned as one of the "foreign power" behind the Yellow Jacket movement.
Yeah... no...

Getting slightly tedious.

 

[muck]

Russia interfered with the US elections to have Trump elected: no.
We got 3 years of that S**t.

Russia interfered with the UK Brexit referendum that was supposed to start WW3.
Apparently it was also false.

Russia interfered with the French presidential elections, so macron claimed.
Which was later denied by French secret services.

Russia got mentioned as one of the "foreign power" behind the Yellow Jacket movement.
Yeah... no...

Getting slightly tedious.

Your comment is tantamount to saying that if I tell you the lie it's raining outside right now it can't possibly be raining anywhere else.

By the way, did you really get "three years of that S**t"? Don't you live in France?

When push comes to shove it shows you what a complete sham it all is .

Define "all".

The annual report of Germany's domestic intelligence office, speaking of a "reasonably substantiated index of suspicion", accuses Russia's secret services of:

- A 2015 blackmail campaign against the chairman of a German parliament's committee investigating the activities of foreign secret services, leading to his resignation over domestic violence charges
- A cyberattack on the German parliament's offices in 2015
- The 2017 release of data stolen during said attack on Twitter accounts linked to the GRU; Germany held general elections that year
- The 2019 murder of a Georgian national in Berlin, a former Islamist who'd fought in Chechnya and had contacted investigative journalists prior to his death

Now, just to make sure no one stoops so low as to ask me if I've seen the evidence for these claims: I haven't. Neither have you seen evidence to the contrary, nor do we to behave like social justice warriors who won't believe any number of experts when they say there's only two genders.

Russia does, of course, try to influence foreign states. And again, why wouldn't they. It's a valid strategy and we do the same to them, if maybe more subtle (e.g. by beating the big drum for NGOs that oppose the Kremlin).

 

[Mokordo]

Could we please not employ stupidity to respond to stupidity? Just because some politicians play the Russia card to deflect attention from their own failures doesn't mean Russia isn't actively engaged in attempts to destabilise the West. And why wouldn't they; it's a valid strategy.

All the sides use what they can to destabilise opposites, to weaken , to obtain benefit, to control. Not only which we can tell enemies, but also allies. That´s is well known by all of us, what I take with humour is how the western press insist specially in Russia, and how personify in one individual, how magnify an issue that is common, that is what intelligence services do every day in every country.

 

[Mokordo]

In this case(Catalonia), Russia didn´t originate the problem, and his possible influence until now, must be negligible.

The cause is the laziness of the state, and every governement(both PP and PSOE) who gave more and more power to the regional governement in return to the support that former regionalist parties (now independentist) gave them in the central parlament.

They have had 40 years, governing continuously and using regional media and education till transform a minority in near the 50% of population of Catalonia who support now the independence. In this brainwashing, Russia had nothing to do.

More self-criticism and less blame Russia, is the first step to start solving this problem .Same in every cause in others countries, use the phantom of Russian interference only to cover their own negligence.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Your comment is tantamount to saying that if I tell you the lie it's raining outside right now it can't possibly be raining anywhere else.

By the way, did you really get "three years of that S**t"? Don't you live in France?

No.

My comment is tantamount to saying that skepticism has taken hold after years of hearing that boy crying wolf. Almost everything going sideways in the West has been blamed on Russia and Putin and apart from a very few instances, namely Russians getting "novichocked", most of the time it:
-wasn't Russia/Putin.
-nothing actually happened.

To quote a tv show: "What is the cost of lies? It's not that we'll mistake them for the truth. The real danger is that if we hear enough lies, then we no longer recognize the truth at all."

So no, it is not "if I tell you the lie it's raining outside right now it can't possibly be raining anywhere else". That would be an extremely grotesque intellectual fallacy...

And yes, though I live in France, my work has me travel a lot to the US and deal with US politics. And, in addition, this is also a topic being discussed abroad. I really don't see how me living in France should, somehow, make me feel not concerned about the effects the whole Russia-thing could have or not have.
Unless you are suggesting that, since I live in France, I should not feel concerned?

 

[Telmar]

Russia interfered with the US elections to have Trump elected: no.
We got 3 years of that S**t.

....

Noone denies that Russia interfered...heck even the Soviet Union did in the past. What the dems wanted to prove was that Trump had colluded with the Russians, and that clearly just blew up, but even the GOP recognizes the interference for the 2016 election.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

What the dems wanted to prove was that Trump had colluded with the Russians.

Hence the: "to have Trump elected".

Russia did interfere to some extremely low and minor extent, and it is nowhere near what the USSR used to do "back in the days" or what the US did back in the days as well, or even still today.
Remember Obama, then still president, lobbying in the UK against Brexit?

More self-criticism and less blame Russia, is the first step to start solving this problem .Same in every cause in others countries, use the phantom of Russian interference only to cover their own negligence.

^^^

That.

 

[Telmar]

Hence the: "to have Trump elected".

Russia did interfere to some extremely low and minor extent, and it is nowhere near what the USSR used to do "back in the days" or what the US did back in the days as well, or even still today.
Remember Obama, then still president, lobbying in the UK against Brexit?

If you watch the impeachement transcripts, you wil hear the representatives of the GOP being a little more opiniated than you are on this. Yes, Trump is the president the Russians wanted, and I doubt they regret it. However, and that´s where the dems were dishonest, Trump has nothing to do with it.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

If you watch the impeachement transcripts, you wil hear the representatives of the GOP being a little more opiniated than you are on this. Yes, Trump is the president the Russians wanted, and I doubt they regret it. However, and that´s where the dems were dishonest, Trump has nothing to do with it.

I'm fine with them being more opiniated than me, I don't share the burden of their concerns on the matter.

 

[Mokordo]

Trump is the president the americans elected. If Hillary Clinton would have been elected instead , you would say Hillary Clinton was the president ...the EU wanted?, or who?