Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[Connaught Ranger]

View attachment 520597

Orban has been on the side (cock-holster) of Putin since the beginning, he borrowed millions of Euros from Russia when the EMF stopped giving him EU grants his vision of "peace" is ruSSia coming out on top and he will be a lapdog.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

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[thelistener]

@LimaCharles wondered about these same things few pages back

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Most members here (I dare say) cannot wrap their heads around why Tulsi is yapping about this (same things that Russian propaganda is trying to bring up). Ukraine is at at war, they have declared martial law, what can't Americans understand about this, even the highest officials?

Britain didn't have elections during WWII, it banned an opposition party and imprisoned its leader.
My nation did the same in WW2.

In fact, my nation would behave exactly the same way today if we were attacked. Maybe the European NATO members need give a lesson about this to US counterparts, so if, God forbid, things heat up in Europe, the Americans won't be surprised by this. And if you believe that the Economist is not fake news, my nation ranked 6th in the 2024 Democracy Index, while the US is ranked 28th according to them, if that matters to this discussion.

 

[Chazman]

I think Trump and Vance failed big time they lost it.

For everybody to see how they - on purpose - intended to humiliate Zelensky - plan is a new leader to Moscows liking.

Hegseth also stopped all cyber operations against his new nice friend Russia.

Who will also stop operations against the US out of pure joy..

You are entitled to your opinion, but what's important is how the American People saw it. And they saw what they saw. There is a chance Zelensky doesn't survive this.

 

[Musashi]

Die Trump-Männer want to resume Nord Stream 2 to Make RuZZia Great Again.

MSN

Can you connect the dots or not?
It's not about Ukraine.
It's about making RuZZia feel good.

I wonder if @Chazman's neighbors decide what car @Chazman should buy or what shop he should do his shopping at.

I've been talking for months that Trump wants to please Putain at the expense of U.S. allies.

 

[Chazman]

@LimaCharles wondered about these same things few pages back

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Most members here (I dare say) cannot wrap their heads around why Tulsi is yapping about this (same things that Russian propaganda is trying to bring up). Ukraine is at at war, they have declared martial law, what can't Americans understand about this, even the highest officials?

Britain didn't have elections during WWII, it banned an opposition party and imprisoned its leader.
My nation did the same in WW2.

In fact, my nation would behave exactly the same way today if we were attacked. Maybe the European NATO members need give a lesson about this to US counterparts, so if, God forbid, things heat up in Europe, the Americans won't be surprised by this. And if you believe that the Economist is not fake news, my nation ranked 6th in the 2024 Democracy Index, while the US is ranked 28th according to them, if that matters to this discussion.

That statement that you posted is true and factual. You can qualify it or explain it or whatever. Still true.

 

[xuyantrop]

I wonder if @Chazman's neighbors decide what car @Chazman should buy or what shop he should do his shopping at.

What Poland has to do with Nord Stream 2 actually?

 

[thelistener]

That statement that you posted is true and factual. You can qualify it or explain it or whatever. Still true.

Yes it is. But do we have to pretend that there isn't an underlying motive by bringing them up just like LimaCharles did?
Of course i might be wrong and Tulsi just said how unfortunate it is, that for the time being civil liberties are on hold in Ukraine, due to a defensive war, but i doubt it.

 

[LimaCharles]

@LimaCharles wondered about these same things few pages back

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Most members here (I dare say) cannot wrap their heads around why Tulsi is yapping about this (same things that Russian propaganda is trying to bring up). Ukraine is at at war, they have declared martial law, what can't Americans understand about this, even the highest officials?

Britain didn't have elections during WWII, it banned an opposition party and imprisoned its leader.
My nation did the same in WW2.

In fact, my nation would behave exactly the same way today if we were attacked. Maybe the European NATO members need give a lesson about this to US counterparts, so if, God forbid, things heat up in Europe, the Americans won't be surprised by this. And if you believe that the Economist is not fake news, my nation ranked 6th in the 2024 Democracy Index, while the US is ranked 28th according to them, if that matters to this discussion.

Your boundaries on this is yours and not mine to say with but when you're using your own boundaries on the subject of elections during war and pushing them on me, then you are making your arguments indefensible in intellectual discussions.

It's okay to agree to disagree but when you are forcing the issue with fallacies and boundaries being pushed, then you are having a full on Dunning Kruger Effect.

What your country does or anyone else's isn't rent free in my head but when Ukraine wants our money and support, it becomes my business and I have made valid points that you can't seem to grasp. Whether deliberate because of your biases or lack of critical thinking skills, is unknown. But one thing I do know, is that yapping at me and complaining about another yapping is quite ironic.

Dude, give it a rest, you are not going to change the status quo between us and no one in the Ukraine or the US is going to weigh in after your spat with me is finished. Things out of yours and mines control will happen regardless and this is a discussion that you think you need to "win" here to save whatever face you think you lost while being flabbergasted by my OP.

There are grey areas, and whether you agree or not or try to use appeals to numbers (a fallacy) on whom you think supports what, you have no contest of this fact. Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it. We are DONE. Take the high road and agree to disagree, it's not internet serious, my friend.

 

[LimaCharles]

Yes it is. But do we have to pretend that there isn't an underlying motive by bringing them up just like LimaCharles did?
Of course i might be wrong and Tulsi just said how unfortunate it is, that for the time being civil liberties are on hold in Ukraine, due to a defensive war, but i doubt it.

Ah, so I do live rent free in your head. What motive did I was was underlined here? If you are going to insert things that I never said then I want to know where this is stemming from.

And he's in fact correct on his assessment of your quoted post.

 

[thelistener]

Your boundaries on this is yours and not mine to say with but when you're using your own boundaries on the subject of elections during war and pushing them on me, then you are making your arguments indefensible in intellectual discussions.

It's okay to agree to disagree but when you are forcing the issue with fallacies and boundaries being pushed, then you are having a full on Dunning Kruger Effect.

What your country does or anyone else's isn't rent free in my head but when Ukraine wants our money and support, it becomes my business and I have made valid points that you can't seem to grasp. Whether deliberate because of your biases or lack of critical thinking skills, is unknown. But one thing I do know, is that yapping at me and complaining about another yapping is quite ironic.

Dude, give it a rest, you are not going to change the status quo between us and no one in the Ukraine or the US is going to weigh in after your spat with me is finished. Things out of yours and mines control will happen regardless and this is a discussion that you think you need to "win" here to save whatever face you think you lost while being flabbergasted by my OP.

There are grey areas, and whether you agree or not or try to use appeals to numbers (a fallacy) on whom you think supports what, you have no contest of this fact. Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it. We are DONE. Take the high road and agree to disagree, it's not internet serious, my friend.

Its okay if you don't want to defend your view. But it was pretty clear that you weren't aware of its common occurrence in Europe in WW2 since you only brought up the US and how it had elections during war time.

I have never heard anybody argue against british-US arms deals in ww2 prior to US involvement nor US-British alliance after pearl harbour because of limited civil liberties in the UK during war time. But now in the case of Ukraine it's such an issue that you said:
need I remind YOU of the very dictatorship Volodymyr Zelenskyy has done all along

 

[thelistener]

Ah, so I do live rent free in your head. What motive did I was was underlined here? If you are going to insert things that I never said then I want to know where this is stemming from.

And he's in fact correct on his assessment of your quoted post.

Your comment:
need I remind YOU of the very dictatorship Volodymyr Zelenskyy has done all along

Which you then explained by:
And by the way, are you trying to be obtuse deliberately? What's Ukraine's term limits as president (it's five)? What year is he now serving (six)? He dissolved the elections and nuked all 11 party opponents, in 2022 he made a law censoring journalists unless it was state approved and combined all news into one station. Show me contrary, your turn now.

To bring up these disbanded civil liberties during war time in Ukraine is clearly to paint a picture how Zelensky is a dictator.

 

[Musashi]

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[PEMM]

Zelensky has about 51% approval ratings.

If they were to hold elections now, out of popular candidates, he would be estimated to get around 44% of the votes on the first round, 13% more than when he was elected.

Is Zelenskyy Losing Public Support? Examining Approval, Trust, and Attitudes Toward War and Peace in Ukraine | Survation

Volodymyr Zelenskyy arrived in the US yesterday to sign a draft resources trade deal, discuss ongoing peace negotiations, and address the future of US support...

www.survation.com

 

[Picanha]

So for Putin its ok to be a dictator?

Or do we just ignore this and selectively focus on the prez which was attacked (By an actual dictator) and therefore could not hold elections?

Putin was/is much more dictator than Selensky could ever be...he even built up all this during his never ending reign.

What an absurd discussion. The bringing up of him (Selensky) as a dictator reveals so much.

If we follow this path we can just tap into the Kremlins world view of "right and wrong" and adapt it unquestioned and spread it to the World

 

[Mike1976]

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Why yes, but he said most of that when the president who the traitriots didn't like was in office.

It only counts when you kiss the current clown's ring.

Btw JerryRigEverything has a very nice YT channel where he destruction tests tech.

 

[Chazman]

To bring up these disbanded civil liberties during war time in Ukraine is clearly to paint a picture how Zelensky is a dictator.

I guess a question that has to be asked is, does Zelensky still speak for the Ukrainian people? Because now it is coming out that he met with a group of people before going to the WH Friday. We'll call them the "War Lobby", who are making billions on the continuation of the war. They gave him a pep talk.

Does Zelensky represent them or the Ukrainian people. Honest question.

 

[LimaCharles]

Its okay if you don't want to defend your view. But it was pretty clear that you weren't aware of its common occurrence in Europe in WW2 since you only brought up the US and how it had elections during war time.

I have never heard anybody argue against british-US arms deals in ww2 prior to US involvement nor US-British alliance after pearl harbour because of limited civil liberties in the UK during war time. But now in the case of Ukraine it's such an issue that you said:
need I remind YOU of the very dictatorship Volodymyr Zelenskyy has done all along

It was already defended, you simply wanted to prolong it whereas I it is not so serious enough to battle over till ad nauseam. It's okay to admit that you have closure issues with opposing points of view. You have no idea what you are talking about from where I sit as well.

Ooooooo, you topic slid to US and British arms deal during WW2, you do understand that you are using fallacies right? And for again the record, my issue is US support because it must be conditional, just how and why you continue to make other things never spoken by me, is a YOU thing only and that itself is inexplicable to comprehend with rational thinking. NEED I REMIND YOU ENDLESSLY, YOU INDEED THAT YOU ARE MAKING UP THINGS AS YOU ALONG?

 

[Chazman]

So for Putin its ok to be a dictator?

Or do we just ignore this and selectively focus on the prez which was attacked (By an actual dictator) and therefore could not hold elections?

Putin was/is much more dictator than Selensky could ever be...he even built up all this during his never ending reign.

What an absurd discussion. The bringing up of him (Selensky) as a dictator reveals so much.

If we follow this path we can just tap into the Kremlins world view of "right and wrong" and adapt it unquestioned and spread it to the World

We are not supporting Putin. He is our adversary, That's the difference.

 

[HorniePonie]

You are entitled to your opinion, but what's important is how the American People saw it. And they saw what they saw. There is a chance Zelensky doesn't survive this.

Unfortunately you are right that in politics it (generally) rarely matters how things are but how they are seen.