Politics Wokism/Woke/World gone crazy

[TheKiwi]

Constraints on governments I totally approve of. Constraints on individuals I don't.

My biggest objection to the whole "right to be forgotten" thing is the attempt to impose it worldwide. It sets very nasty precidents.

 

[muck]

My biggest objection to the whole "right to be forgotten" thing is the attempt to impose it worldwide. It sets very nasty precidents.

That's not quite what's happened, though. What has happened is no one's devised a legal superstructure yet to match the internet's actual infrastructure.

Every country has the right to enforce its laws on its own territory. That right is jeopardized by the ambiguous nature of virtual contents which have no clear-cut whereabouts. As a consequence, every court and none could be competent to claim jurisdiction. Human laws just never imagined a thing could exist in many places at the same time.

That's why we've all agreed to settle for the next best solution and abide by the fiction virtual contents exist in physical form (as transmittable code of which someone can claim ownership). The moment said code reaches users falling under a different jurisdiction, it becomes justiciable.

For the time being, no one's laws distinguish between that code and, say, a physical object that's sold from one country to another. The moment the object crosses the border, it doesn't fall under the seller's national jurisdiction anymore. Obviously, the recipient's jurisdiction doesn't have the authority to prevent the seller from selling objects, but it can stop the object sold from crossing its border.

That's evidently impossible in the virtual sphere. All the foreign jurisdiction is physically able to do is cut all user-side access to information sent from that source. In order to avoid this, the sender is asked (and usually agrees) not to make the questionable content available to users who fall under the complaining jurisdiction.

There's no imposing in the sense of the word, though; it's de facto a voluntary interaction. For instance, foreign news outlets which do not want to comply with the European Union's strict privacy laws have stopped serving the continent as is their right. But they do not enjoy the inalienable right to make their content accessible on the territory of a foreign jurisdiction.

Precedents have not been created here, by the way. American authorities have been pursuing violations of US copyright law for years guided by the same principle: If you make unlawful data accessible to a country's citizens, you'll have to answer to that country's courts.

 

[TheKiwi]

There have been a number of instances of courts trying to impose on google (and others) not just a "don't show that on google.de searches, don't show it anywhere in the world". Not just in the EU either, I am aware of at least one Canadian attempt as well.

 

[muck]

Wasn't that because Google had argued they're using the same algorithms everywhere and can't build a search engine that takes into account the peculiarities of the world's 200+ jurisdictions, though?

 

[TheKiwi]

Nope, it was because google was supressing the name of someone under the "right to be forgotten" on google.de, but if someone in Germany used google.com instead they got the true result.

 

[muck]

Well, that's what I meant. The company has made its product accessible in Germany, hence its product is justiciable under German law. Google is perfectly capable of blocking access from any range of IPs; it's merely easier for them to simply cut out the questionable search results. That wasn't a legal requirement though.

 

[berkut76]

Apparently, there is a Marxist - Leninist Party in Canada.

MacDonald ran as a candidate in the 2019 federal election for the Marxist-Leninist Party. The university lists him as an assistant lecturer in the Faculty of Education, specifically, in elementary education.

On Nov. 20, Dougal MacDonald posted a message claiming the Holodomor genocide is a “myth,” a “lie” and a “man-made Ukrainian Famine.”

The Ukrainian Canadian Students’ Union is calling on the University of Alberta to “immediately terminate and censure Assistant Lecturer Dougal MacDonald for anti-Ukrainian hate speech, Holodomor denial as well as libel and defamation of a community and a former chancellor.

The Holodomor is a recognized genocide by the Parliament of Canada and most legislatures in Canada, including Alberta, as well as countless other countries and international government organizations around the world.
The imposed famine in Soviet Ukraine was orchestrated by the Joseph Stalin regime in 1932 and 1933. Ten-million Ukranians died.
The post on MacDonald’s Facebook page — photos of which have been shared online by several sources, including the Ukrainian Canadian Students’ Union and the U of A campus newspaper The Gateway — reads, in part: “It was the Hitlerite Nazis who created the famine myth of 1933 to discredit the Soviet Union, the enemy they most feared…
“The [William Randolph] Hearst ‘yellow press’ sensationalized, exaggerated and even fabricated news stories, to try to push its reactionary agenda and to sell more newspapers. Egged on by the Hitlerites, Hearst’s papers became the biggest propagandists for the Ukrainian famine myth, using fake photographs and printing lies that have been refuted by solid evidence over and over again.”
The post on MacDonald’s Facebook page — photos of which have been shared online by several sources, including the Ukrainian Canadian Students’ Union and the U of A campus newspaper The Gateway — reads, in part: “It was the Hitlerite Nazis who created the famine myth of 1933 to discredit the Soviet Union, the enemy they most feared…
The Trudeau government’s promotion of the Holodomor myth is more of its self-serving agenda to attempt to rewrite history, while falsely claiming to support freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law.”

Ukrainian students want U of A lecturer fired after calling Holodomor a ‘lie’ on Facebook

 

[BCNTM]

Constraints on governments I totally approve of. Constraints on individuals I don't.

My biggest objection to the whole "right to be forgotten" thing is the attempt to impose it worldwide. It sets very nasty precidents.

and protects very nasty *iss artists

 

[BCNTM]

Nope, it was because google was supressing the name of someone under the "right to be forgotten" on google.de, but if someone in Germany used google.com instead they got the true result.

you would have got the correct result if you had used bing as well - or some of the lesser known search engines

 

[Fluff]

I would suggest the deceased have a right that its known they were murdered, and who was convicted of it. Have at it....

 

[NZM305]

Stuff

www.newshub.co.nz

So you go in to the mens changing room because your too impatient to wait..... and then freak out cause a man got naked in the mens changing room??!!!
Hope he sues for emotional trauma from you being in there....... stupid cow.

 

[muck]

Malmö cathedral unveils altar mural that replaces Adam and Eve with gay couples ()

A pastor of the church praised the painting, “we are so happy and proud!”

What… the… actual… so now the Bible needs rewriting to please the activist types, yes?

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Well, it's Sweden...

 

[Mordoror]

Malmö cathedral unveils altar mural that replaces Adam and Eve with gay couples ()


What… the… actual… so now the Bible needs rewriting to please the activist types, yes?

To be honest all books of the 3 monotheist religions deserve an overhaul of their most medieval mentality part.
That said, Adam and Eve is probably not the part i would considere to tone down. Aside the fact that this episode served as a basis for a patriarchal society puting the suffering burden as a woman's fault (loss of Eden Garden et all). But it is not written as such in the bible and was a later interpretation of the church.
There are so much more things in it that are disputable (human sacrifice, incest, racism, warmongering, murder, theft, slavery) that this part of the Ancien Testament is probably the mist innocent. Funny that it is this part that is targeted by progressists

 

[muck]

No, they don't need an overhaul – and this I maintain as an agnostic and a harsh critic of political Islam –, much less so in order to appease people who've not been forced to practice a religion that disagrees with their lifestyle.

I'm not a practicing Christian as I don't wish to subject myself to Catholicism's tenets. That's the only alternative I'm entitled to. I'm not entitled to telling the church to agree with my moral conduct, of which that asinine mural is a result.

Besides, it's downright bizarre to expect religious communities to just alter their holy texts. A religion whose followers may alter what they ought to regard as the word of god is reduced to an absurdity. There's no point in believing in a god, a creator of all things, if everyone's free to rewrite what that god has said.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Can we, or should we, expect Islam to show such "progressiveness"? Or even ask, demand, pressure, them to do so?

Or would that be "bigoted"?

 

[BCNTM]

Malmö cathedral unveils altar mural that replaces Adam and Eve with gay couples ()

What… the… actual… so now the Bible needs rewriting to please the activist types, yes?

Too many snakes in that story for my liking

 

[BCNTM]

To be honest all books of the 3 monotheist religions deserve an overhaul of their most medieval mentality part.
That said, Adam and Eve is probably not the part i would considere to tone down. Aside the fact that this episode served as a basis for a patriarchal society puting the suffering burden as a woman's fault (loss of Eden Garden et all). But it is not written as such in the bible and was a later interpretation of the church.
There are so much more things in it that are disputable (human sacrifice, incest, racism, warmongering, murder, theft, slavery) that this part of the Ancien Testament is probably the mist innocent. Funny that it is this part that is targeted by progressists

oh come on - Santa Claus is more likely to be real

 

[BCNTM]

Can we, or should we, expect Islam to show such "progressiveness"? Or even ask, demand, pressure, them to do so?

Or would that be "bigoted"?

Another story full of fairies

 

[Mordoror]

No, they don't need an overhaul – and this I maintain as an agnostic and a harsh critic of political Islam –, much less so in order to appease people who've not been forced to practice a religion that disagrees with their lifestyle.

I'm not a practicing Christian as I don't wish to subject myself to Catholicism's tenets. That's the only alternative I'm entitled to. I'm not entitled to telling the church to agree with my moral conduct, of which that asinine mural is a result.

Besides, it's downright bizarre to expect religious communities to just alter their holy texts. A religion whose followers may alter what they ought to regard as the word of god is reduced to an absurdity. There's no point in believing in a god, a creator of all things, if everyone's free to rewrite what that god has said.

To a point i would agree with you.......but i always remember that all of the 3 books are artificial constructs of sections compiled with a political and social agenda behind back in their days (probably less true for the original one; the Talmud. Not really disputable for the Bible and the Quran)
That's where we have to disagree. The Holy books are not litteraly God words but churches (in the wide meaning of the word) cannons.
A cannon can evolve and should evolve. But that's just my 2 cents.
PS : on the appeasement part i am with you. However it can be and is used as a reverse arguments for those that are the most toxic todays : fundamentalist islamists clamped on the litteral reading of Quran and Haddiths and refusing any evolution of the texts