Warfare Russia/Ukraine War
- Thread starter morris
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Well, to reply in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way, it wasn't hard for you to comment that all which Tucker Carlson does is arguing against purported attempts of the hawks to drag America into a war with Russia. I'd suggest it's more than that.
You've reiterated this opinion a couple of times, and I attempted as many times to entice you into sharing your view on the ideological underpinnings of this war (which Putin and his state-run news agency did deliver to us in quite explicite a manner). Allow me to press you for your opinion once more, because I genuinely cannot see how you'd arrive at such a conclusion. No offence, but what you're saying strikes me as reminiscent of when most people believed that Hitler hadn't meant anything specific by the ideas he laid out in 'Mein Kampf'.
By the way, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist – I'm not comparing Putin to Hitler. (Quite yet.)
How do you think Putin could've publicly expressed such views and politicaly survive not acting upon them?
You may very well accuse me of ignorance on American matters, but I'd have to return the favour with regard to your view on Europe. It's a bit of a different system over here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those idiots who think that our crap smacks of roses. It doesn't. However, continental societies are more pluralistic than yours, and the power of corporations or interest groups is evidently limited (at least in direct comparison). There's no Hollywood promoting its ideology, bids for presidency don't depend on big donors, and you don't have to be a millionaire to become a measly parliamentarian. At any rate, I wasn't trying to instigate a systemic debate.
Maybe you feel this war isn't as relevant to America, which would be somewhat understandable given the geographic distance and the growing popularity of quasi-isolationism in America ever since the 2010s'. But having experienced the last decade of the Cold War, and being eternally grateful for the role which America played in ending it, I find it incredible to see that American news shows from both sides mainly revolve around dissecting the past rather than asking questions about the future. Like what this war means for America, or how it could be ended. In fact, I feel like even now, many Americans dwell more on threats posed by nobodies like Iran.
May I ask where you're from? I mean, if you mean to hate Germany for evils which someone who wasn't me inflicted on someone that wasn't you, I at the very least would like to know which place it is that Germany is allegedly now ruling through the force of money. I sure hope it's not a NATO country, that would make that clause about mutual defence awkward.
The bad Chechens are the ones who've somehow managed to forget all that shyte about blood feuds, honour and faith and now fight to support a people's right to secede (which they themselves were denied) under the banner of a president whose forces killed at least 65,000 of their countrymen (according to Russian claims).
Poor leadership and unilateral disarmament made it easier for Putin, that's very true. Was it a sine qua non to enable him, though? As mentioned before, I see no evidence for that. Nor do I see how you would've had Western leaders stop Putin without risking the very escalation to which you're opposed.
I think you're overestimating the role of the Afghanistan withdrawal. The Soviets actually fared far worse than NATO at every step of the turn, which is (presumably) why even Russian state television didn't devote nearly as much attention to the debacle at Kabul as it could've. With 14,500 deaths one does not easily gloat over NATO's 3,500 deaths.
But, more importantly, the West's unwillingness to waste another twenty years in that hell-hole didn't tell Putin anything he'd not already known.
True. Although there's headlines like this:
Just because we're not buying, doesn't mean nobody else is. There's actually a chance that the next time Russia butts heads with the West, they're in a far better position to do so. Imagine a Russia that doesn't rely on trade with the West in order to run its economy. You'd have to sanction all their allies as well, and that's just not possible. On that I wholly agree with an earlier assessment of yours, that China is the main benefactor of this war.
India looks to bail out Russia with discount crude oil purchase
India, which imports 80 per cent of its oil needs, usually buys only about 1 per cent from Russia. But following price increases, New Delhi is looking at how it can reduce its energy bill.www.dailymail.co.uk
I wonder if Putin even realises this.
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Roman Abramovich: New evidence highlights corrupt deals
Good enough to own a premier league team. Until things got ugly.
Good enough to own a premier league team. Until things got ugly.
Few murmurs that they should move into the west Ukraine while uncontested and invited.
When will it happen or as usual... gee which we could have done that after we get 20 mill refugees, the rest artillery targets.
When will it happen or as usual... gee which we could have done that after we get 20 mill refugees, the rest artillery targets.
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I read a few of the posts on Tucker Carlson (and other apparently sensitive topics). It reminded me, there’s a scene in Band of Brothers when they’re on a troop ship. A spat breaks out, and some non-pulsed GI makes a quip, “They’re fighting over Sobel? That’s smart.”
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muck, my man, I may have to break this down into a couple different posts. I'll start with this portion of your post.
Putin is a bully. And he has been clearly telling us what he wants to do for over 20 years. He feels the break up of the USSR was the biggest travesty to ever befall mankind. And he's been telling us continuously that his life's purpose is to reassemble the Soviet Union. Over and over - literally telling us.
He took a few nibbles. Georgia. No one did very much. Crimea. No one cared. The west simply ignored it after the prerequisite 72 hours of firmly worded protests. He figured that was easy, those were just freebies. No real pushback signals sent by the west. NATO continued to disarm or at least not take it's defense very seriously. Spend 2%???? For what? Who's going to attack us? The EU, most notably Germany kept buying all the energy Putin could sell. Russia, or should I say Russian oligarchs were becoming rich beyond comprehension. It is said Putin takes his percentage off the top. He may be worth $200-$300 billion, some say. So Putins takes his nibbles, NATO doesn't take it's defensive posture seriously and the EU becomes more and more dependent on Putin and his gas/oil. Trump complained about all of this, especially to Merkel, and the western media called him a boorish ignoramus over it. How unsophisticated. He is soooo embarrassing.
Anyway, Ukraine was always the prize, though. That would be more than a nibble. This would be more than sending "Little Green Men" to Crimea and calling it done after 24 hours. I can't get into Putin head, but I'm sure he felt this one would cost. There would be ramifications. Perhaps he looked over the fence every day for years and said "nope, not today". But I believe several months ago he looked over the fence and said yes, today. Events and conditions had lined up perfectly. A weak, feckless and unfocused US administration. A disarming and uninterested EU. Nord Stream. Nord Stream 2. Team Biden shuts down US pipelines and supports Russian pipelines, while doing everything possible to suppress alternate sources like the Mediterranean gas fields around Cyprus.
He kept telling us what he wanted to do and we kept telling him, hey Vlad, that's cool with us..
Putin probably said to himself, could these piss poor fools be any weaker? I don't think so.
Sh!t, today is the day!
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Well, in that case then, his plan is working out.
Russia is isolated. The economy is in ruins. The currency is worthless. Opposition opinion is being crushed.
He still may get whacked by his closest people at any moment. Or he may whack them. Or, best case scenario, both.
The list of Russian allies is . . . interesting. Nobody trusts Russia now. Especially the Chinese.
Ukraine is in ruins and he does not plan to help rebuild it.
Come to think of it, Putin really has practically recreated the Soviet Union.
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Okay, muck. I'll take this piece next.
First let me preface this by saying that America and Europe will always be linked. No matter what, the destinies of the two will always be intertwined and consequential. Although the US is a melting pot for people from everywhere, 2/3rds can still trace their lineage back to somewhere in Europe.
But I'll tell you a difference and you may disagree - which is okay.
Europe was a feudal society for many centuries. There were the rich Lords or land owners and those who worked his land to make their existence. The peasants had no freedoms. Through centuries of struggle Europeans fought their masters and then governments to gain freedoms, until we are where we are today.
Americans however are born of liberty. Freedom is a God given right. It's not the government which allows freedoms to the people, because these freedoms are innate and God given. It is the free people who tell the government how much power they are ALLOWED to have. And this is the essence of the domestic struggle in the United States today. The People are taking their power back. But those who now have it don't want to let it go, so anyone who resists is attacked, called names, discredited, etc. Pretty ugly stuff.
But....I have a feeling that the patriot spirit of liberty loving Americans has now been activated. It's the realization that no one is coming to save us and we have to save ourselves. And patriots are taking over local government, school boards and running for elected office. Keep your eye on the midterm elections Nov. 8.
If I have time I'll do more tomorrow.....
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The Kremlin's main propagandist, whose multiple villas in Italy were recently sanctioned, says that the invasion of Ukraine is only an intermediate stage for Russia, and they will return NATO to 1997 borders (perhaps implying Russian invasion of the Baltic states, Poland, Bulgaria, Moldova and Romania) .
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