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Warfare Russia/Ukraine War
- Thread starter morris
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You clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Do you know the Bunderswehr used to be the strongest European army in the 80s apart from the Soviet Army?
The Germans had 500k+ well-trained soldiers, well over 4000 tanks, including 2000+ Leopard 2A4s, a fvckton of artillery, small anti-tank choppers and good aviation.
When the RuZZians invaded Ukraine, the Germans were producing 2 tanks a month and planned to increase it to 4 a month.
They still produce Pz2000s at a slow rate plus the newest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCH_155
Ukraine ordered 18 of them in 2022 and they are planned to be delivered in 2025. Can you imagine that? Producing 18 SPHs in 3 years?
Nobody can stop the Germans from producing a fvckton of military vehicles, as they used to do it 35-50 years ago.
I would if I were you, as they don't produce much at the moment and they have totally different priorities.
The average German is almost 45 years old, is not into doing a "dirty" job, and works 35 hours a week.
Earning like €35,000 a year for producing Teslas in the gigafactory in Berlin is not appealing enough to a local German, so the factory has massive recruitment problems:
Tesla’s Berlin Hub Can’t Hire Enough People, or Keep Them
The company’s staffing problems have been magnified in Germany, where it is unable to meet targets as more workers head for the exit.
Define "a lot". "Probably" is the critical word. I was born 1km from the German border and had been living less than 20km from the Polish-German border for 31 years. Not probably but really.
So, the Germans are not what they used to be. 20% of them are ashamed of being German. They don't care very much about what happened during the WW2 and there's a fvckton of monuments commemorating the Soviet Army in Germany. We got rid of them a long time ago in Poland, but the Germans have not.
No, the number of Germans who would dream of fighting the RuZZians cannot be described as "a lot".
The percentage of German forum members who would like to do it may be far above the national average, but they are not representative of the entire population. Most of our German forum members served in the military or are historians.
The Germans were not much better at that time either.
You don't understand it. The Ukrainian losses are far less sustainable and Ukraine is purely dependent on foreign aid.
The current German business model is dead, so far-right has risen.
Batsh1t crazy EU regulations regarding our green energy goals have made most EU countries uncompetitive, as energy prices have risen a lot.
However, the Germans brought their problems to the next level by closing all nuclear power plants, against the will of the majority, and decided to increase imports of RuZZian gas and oil instead. They must have really believed that their country might got hit by a tsunami or an earthquake.
Then, we all sh1tlisted RuZZian energy resources.
How is it going to work in the future unless the Germans reopen their nuclear power plants?
Of course, they used to be like that in the 80s, exactly as I've mentioned above. Currently, they have less than 300 tanks.
You need to check these numbers again unless you are not referring to the Jews, the Poles and all the people in Central/Central-Eastern Europe as "human beings".
Come on, don't be shy. You love supplying different countries to fight wars, as it decreases your own losses.
The Germans lost over 5 million soldiers during the WW2 and over 4 million of them were killed fighting the Soviets.
Not supplying the Soviets, no matter how much I hate them, would mean something like 5-6 million more Americans, Brits, French, and Poles would have been killed fighting the Germans to win the war.
Not to mention even more Jews would have been killed in concentration camps in Eastern Europe, as the war would have lasted longer.
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I suppose this is why the Rheinmetall plant in Ukraine was built. It is going to be less costly and more efficeint to have them working as it has been the very model for most German manufacturers to manufacture overseas.
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German defense industry is a joke. They have the knowledge, the power & tech if they wanted, the people to do it, but war is still a topic completely unpopular and one of the reasons why they only provide very limited support to Ukraine.
Footage of attacks by Russian kamikaze drones "Lancet-51" on two Ukrainian tanks Leopard 2A4, made in Germany, has been published. The tanks were used by the 33rd separate mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian army, technical information is on the channel. The tanks were attacked in the Kurakhovsky direction, near the settlement "Dachny", possibly the settlement "Dalniy". As a result of the attacks by the "Lancet" drones, both tanks were damaged, the extent of the damage is unclear, it is also unknown what happened to the crews.
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German defence industry produces amazing vehicles.
One of them is the Puma, probably the best infantry fighting vehicle in the world.
The thing is, who mentally stable can afford to buy a large number of vehicles that cost €30 million a piece?
If buying 50 costs €1.5bn, buying 500 would cost about €15bn.
German vehicles are overengineered, as I said, and too expensive.
The Panther tank comes to my mind. It had a very good frontal armour and an amazing gun, but it was still the most unreliable German tank that spent most of its time at repair workshops. The Germans could have produced at least 5 times as many Pz. Kpfw. IVs as the number of Panthers they produced.
Likewise, the PzH2000 is an amazing SPH. It has a very good "hedgehog" armour that helps it resist attack by RuZZian drones.
The thing is, its autoloader is prone to breaking down when an SPH fires a certain number of shells a day. It's an amazing weapon if you fight someone in a #shitholeCountry like Iraq or Afghanistan and you don't need to fire hundreds of shells a day.
The Americans smartened the fvck-up and concluded some of their equipment is too expensive and too complicated to be produced in necessary numbers. They proposed the loyal wingman to help F35s and they are going to produce a cheaper counterpart of the F35 on top of that.
Whatever works fighting a #sh1tholeCountry would not work fighting RuZZia or #ChinaVirusDevelopers when "quantity has a quality all its own".
The Orcs have learned how to jam the GPS signal, so they rendered Western smart shells and missiles useless in many scenarios.
If an Excalibur shell is supposed to have a CEP of "less than 10m", but it has 50m due to the RuZZian jamming, it's in fact less effective than a dumb 155mm shell. The former has a smaller payload due to dedicating some space for the guidance kit, while the latter can still hit a target, having a CEP of 50m.
Likewise, if a JDAM has a CEP of 5m, but the Orcs can jam its GPS signal, decreasing its accuracy to 50m, they can themselves use a 1500kg dumb bomb with a much smaller accuracy, but the latter can cause exactly the same effect like an unjammed JDAM due to its huge payload.
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If you buy more the cost would go down due to economies of scale. Still very expensive though. But what is the alternative? Modern vehicles are computers on wheels. Downgrading the sensors and other electronics means less effective weapons, less (effective) survivability, worse mobility etc.
And that western vehicles are being lost in Ukraine isn't a surprise given that Ukraine is fighting russia with scrap bits and bobs from the NATO arsenal and not the complete package of air power combined with naval dominance applying a stranglehold to several important trade routes, economic embargo, electronic warfare and sufficient numbers driven by real-time intelligence with an industrial base outside of the reach of most russian weapons.
No weapon is invincible, but if the US army was fighting the war and not the Ukrainian one it would have been over a long time ago, and with far fewer losses in men and material. The US obliterated the Iraqis and the gap in technology wasn't all that different then as it is now between the newer NATO equipment being sent and russia's upgraded WP equipment. Ukraine is fighting NATO's war with a random screwdriver and a hammer, not the full toolkit. They've been equipped to stay in the fight, not to win it. If they had been trained properly in the years following 2014 (NATO not being chickensh*ts), supplied better with the basics and given everything they needed once russia invaded they imo would have driven russia out of the whole of Ukraine except perhaps Crimea by late 2022. The russian army was that ill prepared. NATO fears a Ukrainian victory more than they do a russian one for what the Ukrainian victory would mean for the integrity of the russian state and their nuclear stockpile being scattered to the four winds.
The Ukrainian army hasn't been supplied properly since the end of the Cold War and it's training has been haphazard, especially post 2014, while also trying to implement a new doctrine in the middle of an insurgency. Any weapon you give them is going to be limited by many factors outside of the scope or control of the designers of the system.
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GPS is accurate to within 5m and INS 30m, but as with all American specifications these are severe adverse conditions specs, not russian ones that overstate abilities based on perfect conditions and/or wishful thinking/exports/the Führer's desire for Wünderwaffe. 1-2m and >10m should be achievable on most days.
Like GMLRS specs saying it's operational range is 80km, and russia moving their main supply hubs accordingly.
And then getting Himars'ed at a distance of 93km because it was a clear sky and the wind was favorable.
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Putin will suffer the same no doubt.
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I hope so...
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