Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[morris]

 

[thelistener]

Yes.

OMG, yes.

I'll take that one further, I'd bet any Euro leader wishes Trump was in the WH now. Even the Ukrainian elites who aided in an attempted coup against Trump.

Okay i agree, but im sure that many members here think that being harsh towards putin is what got us to this point in the first place.

 

[Chazman]

Okay i agree, but im sure that many members here think that being harsh towards putin is what got us to this point in the first place.

He made Putin angry? I wonder where we would be if blocking Nord Stream instead of encouraging it would have left Putin, Germany, et al? Also encouraging the Mediterranean pipeline vs blocking it.

It would be a whole different world.

 

[Telmar]

Eh ... shame on me.I'm in bad in sarcasm things... Or you)

Why does this make you think about Hitler specifically? Why not, say, about the Cyprus scenario?

It made me think of the Sudetencrisis.

Minorities used as motives to make other moves.

The situation in Ukraine is murky. The country, with the ethnic Russians and Ukrainians, seem both pretty fcuked up communities. But both these communities don´t wish the other well and are deeply corrupt. So i´m kind of on the fence about what Russia is doing since I understand that the Russian community is threatened.

The West would not care IMHO if it would only be Russia reacting to what is happening in Ukraine or Georgia shelling Russian people. The issue is that threats are made to Baltic countries. These countries are functional democracies, like Czechoslovakia was in the thirties.

Much stuff was said back then about how the Sudeten suffered, and it even caught the attention of some western leaders. But the reality was more that it was the Sudeten who rejected any belonging in the new republic.

This speech about minorities needs always to be put in context and not every minority claim is legitimate.

 

[thelistener]

He made Putin angry?

Not him precisely but western/nato handling of Russia/Putin in general.
But one could argue that for example Trump withdrawing from certain treaties (open skies) was an unnecessary escalation. But this is offtopic so let's stop here since i agree with you.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

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They should dig up Colin's corpse, he would find the needed yellow cakes in no time.

Well... don't know if he would actually find them, but he would surely be able to convince half of the world they are "there somewhere".

 

[morris]

He made Putin angry? I wonder where we would be if blocking Nord Stream instead of encouraging it would have left Putin, Germany, et al? Also encouraging the Mediterranean pipeline vs blocking it.

It would be a whole different world.

Same place where you are now, selling American gas at high price, the GP is happy about it too.

 

[Fluff]

They should dig up Colin's corpse, he would find the needed yellow cakes in no time.

Well... don't know if he would actually find them, but he would surely be able to convince half of the world they are "there somewhere".

Sell the sizzle, not the sausage......

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Okay i agree, but im sure that many members here think that being harsh towards putin is what got us to this point in the first place.

You could say Maidan was the tipping point. To some extent?

But I, personally, don't think the harshness towards Putin is what lead us there. And by "harshness" I am referring to actual official sanctions.
What might/may have pissed Putin, and possibly Russia/Russians, is the unfathomable amount of BS that got spewed by the media and politicians for political gains. From 2016 and Hillary's defeat, everything Trump related, Brexit, everything bad under the sun.

Does this justify where we are today? No.
But now that most, if not all, of these claims have been proven to be false and fabricated BS for cheap political brownie points, I wouldn't be surprised Putin was in a position to say "yeah, that's what I told you for years, but you persisted antagonizing me and my country; so I'll kindly ask you to go f-yourself."

 

[morris]

It made me think of the Sudetencrisis.

Minorities used as motives to make other moves.

The situation in Ukraine is murky. The country, with the ethnic Russians and Ukrainians, seem both pretty fcuked up communities. But both these communities don´t wish the other well and are deeply corrupt. So i´m kind of on the fence about what Russia is doing since I understand that the Russian community is threatened.

The West would not care IMHO if it would only be Russia reacting to what is happening in Ukraine or Georgia shelling Russian people. The issue is that threats are made to Baltic countries. These countries are functional democracies, like Czechoslovakia was in the thirties.

Much stuff was said back then about how the Sudeten suffered, and it even caught the attention of some western leaders. But the reality was more that it was the Sudeten who rejected any belonging in the new republic.

This speech about minorities needs always to be put in context and not every minority claim is legitimate.

Czechoslovakia Sudeten, Nazis and Baltic's SS marches, seems to be so natural.

 

[thelistener]

On a side note, just to make things clear for some, the US raised the alert state of 8500 troops that mainly support the NATO Response Force. Any decision to deploy/move the NRF is made by NATO.

France takes the lead of NATO’s highest readiness force

France takes the lead of NATO’s highest-readiness military force on Saturday (1 January 2022), for a period of one year. The formation, formally known as NATO’s Very High Readiness Joint Task Force (VJTF), was created in 2014 in response to crises in the Middle East and Russia’s aggression...

www.nato.int

Any idea if those 8500 troops would move their equipment from the states to Europe or do they have vehicles + other heavy equipment waiting them in Europe.

 

[morris]

The circus is in town.

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Kirby: The 8,500 US troops deployed to Europe will have reconnaissance, transport, and so on. Their task is to show determination...

 

[Chazman]

The lost opportunity here is that the US, EU and Russia should have had an understanding regarding the real global threat, the CCP.

But, that's not how it played out.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Sell the sizzle, not the sausage......

The sausage was free to refuse being sizzled.

When you are being asked to sell a lie, and you are aware of both (being asked to sell a lie, and the lie being a lie), if you persist in willingly selling it, you are as guilty as the one who asked you to sell it.

If you can't dismiss moral and ethical principles, and/or think what you are being asked to do is immoral, unlawful and wrong: resign.

That's what Mattis did.

But that's veering away from the topic at hand.

 

[thelistener]

The circus is in town.

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Kirby: The 8,500 US troops deployed to Europe will have reconnaissance, transport, and so on. Their task is to show determination...

What useless posturing. Ivan le Fou just pointed correctly that they are in state of readiness until VJTF asks for them, or has VJTF asked them to be deployed just now? (sorry sir, too lazy watch the whole thing)

 

[thelistener]

Russia is refusing incoming VDOC inspections due to Covid. Apperently. Very sad

 

[morris]

Kirby could not answer the question of who will be the commander of the new "rapid reaction" group in Europe.

 

[BCNTM]

I hate to say it, but Putin is holding most of the cards. He literally needs to do nothing now. He holds Germany by the short hairs, especially with Biden's support of the Nord Stream. This will create friction within NATO. Biden and team are incompetent, illegitimate fools. It's a complete Charlie Foxtrot of poor leadership and mistakes.

Remember how WW1 started.

Jerman's need to get those coal fired power stations back online PDQ

 

[morris]

Russia is refusing incoming VDOC inspections due to Covid. Apperently. Very sad

After battling an uphill battle against COVID-19, the Virginia Department of Corrections (VDOC) has decided to extend its in-person visitation suspension until Feb. 13.

According to the State of Virginia, there are 1,900 reported COVID cases among inmates and another 600 confirmed cases among employees working inside the system.

 

[BCNTM]

This is the very first time I've been compared to Hitler.
I have no words ... Apparently, this is how the deprivation of my hitlerite virginity feells like
I do not even know how to express my feellings

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