Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[CemalPasha]

What do you mean: if this image is allowed? Sweden is not a police state, they can't just round up all PKK sympathisers to prevent them from propping up some flag. A flag, mind you. The Turkish nationalists are acting as though Sweden's armed PKK operatives and smuggled them into Turkey to assassinate Erdogan himself. This is getting absurd.

Its not about some flag. Swedish government host DHKP-C militants more dangerous than Kurdish Communists. Also it's not logical if you don't recognize your ally's enemy as enemy to make alliance

 

[CemalPasha]

What do you mean: if this image is allowed? Sweden is not a police state, they can't just round up all PKK sympathisers to prevent them from propping up some flag. A flag, mind you. The Turkish nationalists are acting as though Sweden's armed PKK operatives and smuggled them into Turkey to assassinate Erdogan himself. This is getting absurd.

Not at all. I'm half Turkish from Belgium i can't even hang my football teams flag on my window yet swedish let that flag hanged.. They can ask help from PKK we will never let them in.

 

[Junglejim]

EDIT: Just as a by, I am not sure I've seen anyone on the site take seriously the Ghost of Kyiv.

You shut your whore mouth!!! Blasphemy!

 

[av405]

'ES&T' reports that the Czech T-72 M1's donated to Ukraine will be substituted with Leopard 2's at Germany's expense. A bilateral agreement to that effect, also including ammunition and training services, was struck between Prague and Berlin today. A first delivery of 15 refurbished Leopard 2 A4's for training purposes will be made shortly, the German MoD saying that further substitutions are already in the works. (Source)

@av405

Interesting how it went from 20 used and 40 new tanks to 15 used and at least 50 new tanks. Either way a win-win.

 

[Soldier35]

Video of the heroic battle of the Russian T-80BVM tank in Ukraine in the Kharkov region. On the video, you can see that the Russian T-80 tank was damaged, but it continues to fight, the Russian tank is attacked from all sides by Ukrainian soldiers with grenade launchers, but it does not leave the battlefield.

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American M777 howitzers recently received by Ukraine from the United States have already come under attack by Russian troops. Russian kamikaze drones "KUB-UAV" were used for the strike. After the drone strike, the artillery battery of Ukraine went into the forest, after which they were hit by Russian artillery. The video is cropped due to poor quality

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The work of Russian combat crews of 152-mm self-propelled howitzers "Msta-S" and "Acacia-M" in Ukraine, the fire of Russian artillery is corrected by the drone "Orlan-10".

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[muck]

@CemalPasha

Well, the rest of NATO wants Sweden and Finland in. I fail to see why we should allow the Turkish government to take dozens of other nations hostage over its internal conflicts. Perhaps Turkey should take the appropriate action and leave the alliance then.

 

[Chazman]

Which Parts they gonna make tzaiki MRE?

You mean tzatziki?

I don't believe making a yogurt cucumber sauce is a requirement of purchasing F-35s. Actually, the only requirement is NOT purchasing Russian surface to air missiles which would be integrated into a combined arms system with the F-35, thus neutering them for the rest of the plane's users. Nope, I don't think the Greeks are stupid enough to do that. I mean, I can't imagine anyone who would screw up like that....can you?

 

[Telmar]

Tough days for the Ukrainians around Popasna and Severodonetsk. Attacks on going, slow progress of Russian forces but they are moving.

Ukraine is on the right side of the river to threaten Vovchansk (one of the rail hubs through which supplies go down to Donbass/Kupiansk being the other one) but it does not seem heavy weapons have been put in place to do such an operation.

 

[Junglejim]

Glad the Euros are figuring out the alliances and its quirks now than when the Soviets actually had its act together. like one partner blocking the rest you know stuff.

 

[Sinex]

Alliance, not allegiance. And NATO brings into play transatlantic solidarity, while the EU does not.

de facto. EU has a defence clause, so if Sweden is attacked, and with all the EU countries in NATO, NATO is onboard as well, transatlantic. So it's a formal act, but has little practical implication.

 

[Sinex]

Well OK
I'd make it clear a last time because a lot of you are so "unbiased" that you have lost all critical mind and play the RussiaPropaganda card a bit too easily
So some points :
Russia is lying on its losses : fair, granted, we all agree on this
Ukraine is lying on its losses : ho no, damn, i am now a putinbot
Russia is plastering the SM with BS : well, yes, it's russia
Ukraine is plastering the SM with BS (Ghost of Kiev, Snake Island, Admiral Essen sunk, Admiral Makarov sunk, Support ship sunk and i can go on and on) : well it's legit

What we have on this thread is a bunch of poles who have a axe to grind against Russia, a couple of Hungarians and Bulgarians that hate anything russian related, a few brits that plaster the discussion with usual jingoit wording and .... that's all. Do you read some cold minded analyses ? No
Well, yes, one is trying and ironicaly it is Ivan
And me, on the military aspect of the war


And when all intel reports begin to point that losses ratio may be something around 2 to 1 rather than 5 or 10 to 1 like it was boasted here by all Westernstronk crew members, that means that this war is not going as easy as it sounds in there for the Ukrainians
Which doesnt means that it goes well for the Russians
But it seems that nuances/shades of the events are escaping you


It is much more easy to dismiss any comprehensive attempt of reading the events at military level with the info we have at hand by throwing a "but you are talking out of your ass", yes ?


Well, you know what. I'd leave it there.the Hooligan gathering boasting for its prefered football team. Once dust settle, i will however come back and take a malignant pleasure to pull a few snouts in their own dung

Cheers in the meantime

You might be right on some Poles and others having the time of their life seeing Russian turrets fly and the tractor meme might get boring by now as well.

But when it comes to facts on the ground, most Ukrainian claims turn out to be and come true, even if not each and every number might be correct. Ukraine admitted, whenever a town was lost (Popasna as the last example)
Russia even published bullshit, which is to be disproven in 5 minutes. The non existing storm sinking the Moskva is just one of many examples. Btw., Russia is still claiming the the special military whatever is entirely going according to plan. So the plan is a tactical retreat and to kill your youth?

Russia is lying to an extent that I'd start to doubt the sun is rising in the morning, if I didn't see it myself...

 

[Sinex]

Not at all. I'm half Turkish from Belgium i can't even hang my football teams flag on my window yet swedish let that flag hanged.. They can ask help from PKK we will never let them in.

you will. Trust my words.

I start to like the clairvoyance business. I'll get back to you on that

 

[Mordoror]

I was beginning to think I wouldn’t get a mention…..

If we compare shades of deceit, and I try to be as fair as possible, but ukr has been more truthful, especially on the Moskva. Of course there are lies, manipulations, such is war.

Again casualties, it’s not a game, ukr could lose 200k, as long as it survives as a nation, it wins. Russia set out to remove ukr as a nation.

I read the military, and Russia rows back on what it wanted, now it just annoys ukr with random strikes.

Donbas, crimea, as to ukr recapturing them, who knows, but the current situation, and the flow off the war, points to ukr achieving more than Russia, no matter what putin wants, or wishes.

And of course the poles hate the Russians, poles see what they could have always been, had Russia not held them back. And just as U.K. goes big, because of Salisbury, so Poland senses a weakness in Russia, and goes big. Such is international politics.

Meanwhile all sides wait for putin to die……then we see some real fireworks….

That's where it is getting annoying
Ukraine gets a free pass on everything (while the examples of BS they spouted are numerous, even more numerous than russian ones that it fact don't reach us so much)
They shot down hundred of planes and helo, sunk a war ship with MLRS, a couple of others (that are still floating), never surrendered at Snake Island, suffer only low casualties and so on and so on. They are BShitting. As much as the russians. But the point is not if they are BShitting, the point is that people with some experience in the military is buying their BS because it fits their preconceived bias. Look very much like football supporters

The other part is how to change your mind when something doesnt fit the narrative. Now, casualties are not important. While for months you and a bunch of others boasted about the X thousands of other side grunts killed.

Well casualties are indeed not important while they still are
Body count is a BS metrics but it still has its importance to figure out the capabilities of a friendly or OpFor Force
40 000 casualties for the ukrainians versus a supposed 60 to 70 000 for the russians show that the conflict is more disputed than initialy tought
It also gives an hint that both sides are going toward a moment they will lose major offensive capabilities. Which is obviously less problematic for the ukrainians that are mainly on defensive stance except if they want to expel the russians by force

The ukrainians have mobilized, they can pour more men than the russians that are still reluctant to go full warmode.
But, even if some light WIA go back on the front, this is the experienced elements that suffer the most. Combat capabilities get eroded with time because you replace experienced troops with rookies. That goes for both sides of course. The question, in a attrition war, is how much soldiers each side could offer to pour in the blaze and lose.

 

[TheKiwi]

The visually verified losses of the Russians alone are horrific. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

That's well over 100 verified losses of aircraft/copters/drones. Most times you see (destroyed) next to one of those700+ T-72 or T-80 variants, that's an orbital turret and a crew washed out with a hose.

And those are only the visually verified figures. Add at least 1/3rd for those unable to be verified due to changes in the front line.

I don't find either sides figures believable, but the Ukrainian ones err closer to reality than whatever alternative history is coming out of Russia.

 

[Sinex]

The visually verified losses of the Russians alone are horrific. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

That's well over 100 verified losses of aircraft/copters/drones. Most times you see (destroyed) next to one of those700+ T-72 or T-80 variants, that's an orbital turret and a crew washed out with a hose.

And those are only the visually verified figures. Add at least 1/3rd for those unable to be verified due to changes in the front line.

I don't find either sides figures believable, but the Ukrainian ones err closer to reality than whatever alternative history is coming out of Russia.

I actually even consider Ukrainian figures mostly believable, though you will inevitably find bits and pieces of propaganda and inflation. So far Ukraine has offered quite a reliable communication, though.

 

[Mordoror]

The visually verified losses of the Russians alone are horrific. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

That's well over 100 verified losses of aircraft/copters/drones. Most times you see (destroyed) next to one of those700+ T-72 or T-80 variants, that's an orbital turret and a crew washed out with a hose.

And those are only the visually verified figures. Add at least 1/3rd for those unable to be verified due to changes in the front line.

I don't find either sides figures believable, but the Ukrainian ones err closer to reality than whatever alternative history is coming out of Russia.

That's called High Intensity Warfare
And give a taste of what could have been conventional war in Central Europe in the 80s
Cross checking by various OPSINT indicate that Oryx is probably accurate at 80% for the russian equipment losses (meaning 20% are missing in his chart)
Not so much when it comes to ukrainian equipment losses (probably 50% only)
You can make yourself a quick (while imprecise) estimate (high ratio casualties) by adding all vehicles with their full theorical crews

 

[bald head & beard]

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It's a rather long read for a tweet. You can translate it well using the Yandex image translator if you are interested. The person writing is someone who is called Life in DPR and writes how the mobilization was done, how his/hers brother died and how they are used by the Russians as cannon fodder in other parts of Ukraine.

What is really interesting to me is how stupidly these people believe that they were ever anything other than a Russian cannon fodder and now are somehow shocked and surprised. Also how they believe that they are actually a country (calling Ukraine - another country) or that the DPR institutions have any say in the matter and now they are surprised to find that they don't provide any answers, take any responsibility or give a f for their people.

 

[TheKiwi]

...
You can make yourself a quick (while imprecise) estimate (high ratio casualties) by adding all vehicles with their full theorical crews

Of course now we are seeing reports of Russian tanks with only two crew, heavily under-crewed APC/IFVs etc. Indicative of heavy losses. I very much doubt the talked about restructure of the BTG's with more infantry has happened or will happen. Not only is the manpower not there, but disbanding one unit to help fill out another takes the disbanded unit off the payroll and out of the corruption loop.

 

[Mumstermann]

You mean tzatziki?

I don't believe making a yogurt cucumber sauce is a requirement of purchasing F-35s. Actually, the only requirement is NOT purchasing Russian surface to air missiles which would be integrated into a combined arms system with the F-35, thus neutering them for the rest of the plane's users. Nope, I don't think the Greeks are stupid enough to do that. I mean, I can't imagine anyone who would screw up like that....can you?

Imagine being on the dev team and blowing it all away because of the urge to appease moscow/ to teach someone in the west "a lesson". Suddenly, a new customer outside of the alliance appears out of the blue and gets the plane on a wholesale pricing. The amount of salt must be of legendary portions.

Yeah, the f-16 (insert your block specifics here) can be a fine ac, but one would expect those to be phased out from the NATO inventory and mostly being in the front line service at some banana republics´ or maybe even some of the north african air forces.

 

[Soldier35]

Today the first trial will be held in the city of Rostov-on-Don over the soldiers of the Aidar battalion who surrendered. Denis Maruga, who took part in the explosion of the bridge in 2019, as a result of which people were killed, will appear before the court. Muryga personally confessed to this during the interrogation. In total, 1,700 soldiers of the Ukrainian army have already surrendered from the Azovstal plant.

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