Politics British Politics

[Fluff]

bit of practice for 1 F35

to be honest the WW2 flight would see them off

I think the lanc on its own, or convert the Dak to gunship, unless the irish dig up their hurricanes of course. Home in time for Tea.

 

[BCNTM]

You're a good bloke, but I marvel at your tendency to cover your ears sometimes.

I still have not seen an itemized bill
In fact have the EU's books ever nee signed off

1. You do realize how long it's been since the first (May's) deal was on the table? The delays to Brexit are of Westminster's doing, not of Brussel's.

agreed May did not move things along as quickly as she should - closet remainer
it shows what can be agreed if there is a will and both sides have given a bit
Imagine the deal if we had started this 3 years ago and actually got down to it

2. With the UK leaving and the population ratio shifting, the Southrons will come by a majority and France is already at the starting blocks to give the EU the powers of taxation. You make it sound like Brussels desparately needs that money, but nothing could be further from the truth. Actually (and ironically), all signs point towards a considerable growth in power and revenue of the organization. Regrettably.

Sadly for you it will be you and your country who will be funding it - however strong your economy is I am not sure you can shoulder the whole of the rest of the EU - good luck with that one

3. You always make it sound like the EU came up with an arbitrary fine to punish the UK for leaving. Well, the fact is, it was Her Majesty's Government that came up with that "fine", which is actually a bill for running costs established according to Article 50, which was authored and introduced to the treaty by Gordon Brown's administration in 2009.

As I have said I have not seen a fully itemized bill of any sort - showing the itemized assets and liabilities of the EU
as the only net contributors to the EU have been Germany/France /UK I would expect any infrastructure to be 'owned' by the countries that have paid for it
any pensions for MEP's should be the responsibility of the nation who has sent them there
I find this funny that they can pluck a figure out of the sky and not have the paperwork to back it up
If you have a full breakdown of how they arrived at that figure I would be interested to see it as the rest of the EU budget seems to me to be run on the back of a fag packet and not open to scrutiny

The money that Britain owes, yes owes the Union is mostly due to finish paying for ongoing projects of the EU structural funds inside Britain, for research projects that Britain co-initiated to the benefit of its industry or armed forces, and to cover the pensions of British MEPs and British nationals that have worked in EU agencies. Why on earth should foreign tax payers e.g. pay Nigel Farage's pension once the UK's left, or fund the renovation of some run-down Welsh mining town?

possibly agreed but I would like to see how it has been calculated in black and white in an open and honest way
I still cannot see how we end up with £33bn - basically 3 times our annual contribution
If Germany left would it end up having to find nearly £60bn?
If Poland left would you give them £15m? (that might be a good deal)

 

[BCNTM]

I'm in Spain now. So, the vast majority of those "unemployed" are actually employed unofficially. They have jobs, but their employers don't pay any tax or NI.

sleep all day and work all night

 

[Telmar]

UK is(was) a net contributor - I think 12% of the budget? As a net contributor, that means there is no upside in losing the UK as a recipient, but there is a downside due to losing 12% of their revenue -12% is a lot. So there is no automatic reduction in costs, other than a few admin staff in Brussels.
So the remaining 26 have to find around 9BN. Expect 2-3BN from Germany. I'm sure Germany has this, but how to explain yet more BN going to Poland? Spain and Italy, another 1Bn each maybe? Where will this come from, Spain has 14% unemployment, 32% youth unemployment. 32%!!!

....

The UK represents 10% of the budget gross, 6% after taking in account what it receives back. So the gap is 9 billion indeed. Almost 95% of the budget is spent back on policies...as impressive and expensive as it is, the institutions cost 6% of the budget.

So there is a necessary cutback of course on the operational programs...But most of the structural and social funds were ending anyways. To put thing in perspective, the EU budget represents around 2% of the budget of member states.

 

[Fluff]

If Poland left would you give them £15m? (that might be a good deal)

I think you mean 15BN...…..

-That's got to sting -

but for 10BN every year we will stay.......

 

[BCNTM]

The UK represents 10% of the budget gross, 6% after taking in account what it receives back. So the gap is 9 billion indeed. Almost 95% of the budget is spent back on policies...as impressive and expensive as it is, the institutions cost 6% of the budget.

So there is a necessary cutback of course on the operational programs...But most of the structural and social funds were ending anyways. To put thing in perspective, the EU budget represents around 2% of the budget of member states.

thoughts on how they got to £33bn? as an exit bill

 

[Telmar]

thoughts on how they got to £33bn? as an exit bill

The cost is for several years.

 

[BCNTM]

If Poland left would you give them £15m? (that might be a good deal)

I think you mean 15BN...…..

-That's got to sting -

but for 10BN every year we will stay.......

sorry I had trouble with giving Poland £15bn (3 * 5bn)
I paid a polish plumber once and he had trouble on his bill between M and BN

 

[Fluff]

The UK represents 10% of the budget gross, 6% after taking in account what it receives back. So the gap is 9 billion indeed. Almost 95% of the budget is spent back on policies...as impressive and expensive as it is, the institutions cost 6% of the budget.

So there is a necessary cutback of course on the operational programs...But most of the structural and social funds were ending anyways. To put thing in perspective, the EU budget represents around 2% of the budget of member states.

To fund new and pressing priorities, current levels of funding will need to be increased. Investing now in areas such as research and innovation, young people, the digital economy, border management, security and defence will contribute to prosperity, sustainability and security in the future. For instance, the budget of Erasmus+ and the European Solidarity Corps will be doubled.

The EU's own Bold.

I dont think the political class are planning a diet - sorry.

 

[BCNTM]

The cost is for several years.

I have seen various costings and most people who had any idea could only come up with a maximum of £6-8 bn on a really bad day
It just does not add up - much like the EU

 

[Fluff]

The cost is for several years.

Logically, as we extended, we should have paid more in, but the final bill should then come down, as most of it was related to already made commitments, in the 2014 to 2020 plan, as we are nearer the end, the bill should reduce.

Garcon - the bill!

 

[Telmar]

I have seen various costings and most people who had any idea could only come up with a maximum of £6-8 bn on a really bad day
It just does not add up - much like the EU

It might not have been what you have been told. But Nigel Farage did admit after the election to have completely lied about the money to send back to the NHS. The figures are The budget of the EU is 148 billion. The UK was a net contributor for 8,9.

The UK's contribution to the EU budget - House of Commons Library

This note considers how much the UK contributes to the EU budget and how much it receives back. Potential payments to the EU on or after Brexit - such as the exit bill - are also discussed.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

 

[Fluff]

It might not have been what you have been told. But Nigel Farage did admit after the election to have completely lied about the money to send back to the NHS. The figures are The budget of the EU is 148 billion. The UK was a net contributor for 8,9.

The UK's contribution to the EU budget - House of Commons Library

This note considers how much the UK contributes to the EU budget and how much it receives back. Potential payments to the EU on or after Brexit - such as the exit bill - are also discussed.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk

I would call it a manipulation, they said £350M a week contribution, I'm assuming before the rebate, 350M a week is 18BN ish, actual contribution about 9bn. So if we spent it all on NHS about 175M a week.

As per previous 6BN a year to NHS sounds affordable, and is about 4% increase. And still 3 Bn for other projects, and this still leaves funds for farming etc, as this is the net contribution.

So yes its not massive, and there will be other losses(and benefits) but how much benefit were we getting by tarmacking roads in Romania?

In reverse, the 6% spent on running EU will increase in % terms, and as per previous they plan to spend more on research - maybe some 50K toilet seats, or 9K wrenches......

 

[colin traveller]

Leaving Facebook

l.facebook.com

 

[TIZER]

At least the Irish threat is over....

irish air space

you have guaranteed the end of the UK by throwing the DUP/N Ireland under the bus ... The DUP now realises the unionist part of the tories is a sham and it will guarantee a rise in support for our Independence the Tories and Labour have always been about putting England first now the DUP and the people of N Ireland see this ... but most importantly it will not get passed through the HoC and then the ben act will kick in ... Blo Jo's deal is even worse than Teresa May's no workers rights and pensions protected ... remember Tories talk about pension age rising to 75 ffs ... Blo Jo tries to block our section 30 and we go to court where our top law lord will decree it legal remember the VOW that won the Indyref for the NO side one of the promises made was for Holyrood was to sanction future referendums

 

[Fluff]

To that end, the Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment

15
standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters. The Parties should in particular maintain a robust and comprehensive framework for competition and state aid control that prevents undue distortion of trade and competition; commit to the principles of good governance in the area of taxation and to the curbing of harmful tax practices; and maintain environmental, social and employment standards at the current high levels provided by the existing common standards.

Looks to me that we are pretty locked in on social and employment, it does go on to say changes can be agreed, logical as EU will want to change things as well as time goes on. I cannot see any government trying to massively change workers rights, as this is likely to be punished at the ballot box - assuming a half assed competent opposition of course. I think someone on Question time last night said USA has only 10 days holidays. - what this has to do with Brexit or anything else I have no idea.

 

[BCNTM]

you have guaranteed the end of the UK by throwing the DUP/N Ireland under the bus ... The DUP now realises the unionist part of the tories is a sham and it will guarantee a rise in support for our Independence the Tories and Labour have always been about putting England first now the DUP and the people of N Ireland see this ... but most importantly it will not get passed through the HoC and then the ben act will kick in ... Blo Jo's deal is even worse than Teresa May's no workers rights and pensions protected ... remember Tories talk about pension age rising to 75 ffs ... Blo Jo tries to block our section 30 and we go to court where our top law lord will decree it legal remember the VOW that won the Indyref for the NO side one of the promises made was for Holyrood was to sanction future referendums

just remember that the DUM(P) had a £4bn bribe to vote with the government - okay lets have that money back

If I was Boris and they vote against a deal it would be cut cut cut both NI and Scotland - squeeze them till their pips squeak and some

 

[BCNTM]

To that end, the Parties should uphold the common high standards applicable in the Union and the United Kingdom at the end of the transition period in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment

15
standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters. The Parties should in particular maintain a robust and comprehensive framework for competition and state aid control that prevents undue distortion of trade and competition; commit to the principles of good governance in the area of taxation and to the curbing of harmful tax practices; and maintain environmental, social and employment standards at the current high levels provided by the existing common standards.

Looks to me that we are pretty locked in on social and employment, it does go on to say changes can be agreed, logical as EU will want to change things as well as time goes on. I cannot see any government trying to massively change workers rights, as this is likely to be punished at the ballot box - assuming a half assed competent opposition of course. I think someone on Question time last night said USA has only 10 days holidays. - what this has to do with Brexit or anything else I have no idea.

if you get a Liebour government you won't need workers rights as everybody will be paid £100,00 a year to do nothing and be given a kitten. Everyone becomes an MP

 

[BCNTM]

EU blocks Albania and North Macedonia membership bids

France led a handful of states to block Albania and North Macedonia moving closer to membership.

www.bbc.co.uk

and still countries want to join

 

[muck]

Ok sorry Muck I wasn't really focused on Farage who will always be the all the way brand that he is. His liberalist ex pat pals on Fox do make interesting listening but I'm not a liberal. They have that British tea party thing going for them that is interesting.

That comment answers a lot of questions I never asked.

Well, to be fair to you, you could make a point Johnson bettered his own position by creating a situation where he's able to pass the buck back to parliament. But all he's propped up is his career. He didn't improve his position as PM, nor his country's

Farage is right – and that's not something I'm going to say often in my life – that this deal is bad for the UK. As a matter of fact, one could argue May's deal was better, since it didn't include having British authorities enforce two legal systems at the same time. Also, the infamous Backstop is still there all but in name.

If anyones been following Deutche bank. Eventual bail out. That bad debt is never going to go away and shrinking is not a plan to pay it off..

What's that got to do with Brexit? They're a "victim" of their own greed and incompetence. That bank has spent more money on fines over the past twenty years than they did on dividends. Or maybe they're actually misunderstood geniuses, 'cause they managed to delay the inevitable for such a long period of time. That bank should've went bankrupt ten years ago, during the height of the financial crisis.

And no, there ain't going to be a bail-out. I wouldn't know what gave you that idea since there's no political will for it even amongst the most economy-friendly of politicians around here. They'll be forced to merge with Commerzbank come the end, and all but their most profitable divisions face dissolution.

It's kinda funny how psychology works. It's named Deutsche Bank, that's why everyone's paying attention, but the fact is that other banks have become way more important for Deutschland's economy.

agreed May did not move things along as quickly as she should - closet remainer
it shows what can be agreed if there is a will and both sides have given a bit
Imagine the deal if we had started this 3 years ago and actually got down to it

Either a closet remainer, or just a politician in the true sense of the word: seeing to it there's a chair on both sides when the music stops playing.

The irony being that May's deal would've been better for the UK than Johnson's.

Sadly for you it will be you and your country who will be funding it - however strong your economy is I am not sure you can shoulder the whole of the rest of the EU - good luck with that one

Hence the 'regrettably'. France is going to be the biggest beneficiary of Brexit.

As I have said I have not seen a fully itemized bill of any sort - showing the itemized assets and liabilities of the EU

The annual budget is released in full on the interwebs, if that's what you mean.

as the only net contributors to the EU have been Germany/France /UK I would expect any infrastructure to be 'owned' by the countries that have paid for it

You might as well ask why taxes from London are used to fund roads in Belfast. The theory is that raising the living standards of regions less well-off creates additional marketing opportunities for those that pay the bills. Much like social welfare is partially driven by the knowledge that impoverished people don't buy stuff to keep the economy going.

For example, Finland received 39 million GBP from the UK through the structural funds in 1995. That's 39 million GBP less which they had to pay for maintaining their roads and whatnot, and could spend on other purposes. That same year, they paid the UK 119 million GBP for seven Hawk jets (the number comes with an asterisk as I didn't find conversion figures for that year, but for the sake of this example it's immaterial whether they ended up paying 118 or 120 million).

Include BAE's taxes and the jobs preserved through this deal, and the British economy and treasury came out with a slight plus. Do the same an untold number of times, and you'll rake in big-time.

As a matter of fact, the net beneficiaries (like Greece and Portugal) used this simple economic truth to accuse the net contributors (like Germany and the UK) of exploitation when we refused to bail them out. They argued they'd deserved to be bailed out since our economies had benefited from their overspending.

Which is actually true, by the way, although nigh-irrelevant when considering other factors.

At any rate, if applied carefully, the concept has shown to be working.

any pensions for MEP's should be the responsibility of the nation who has sent them there
I find this funny that they can pluck a figure out of the sky and not have the paperwork to back it up
If you have a full breakdown of how they arrived at that figure I would be interested to see it as the rest of the EU budget seems to me to be run on the back of a fag packet and not open to scrutiny

possibly agreed but I would like to see how it has been calculated in black and white in an open and honest way
I still cannot see how we end up with £33bn - basically 3 times our annual contribution
If Germany left would it end up having to find nearly £60bn?
If Poland left would you give them £15m? (that might be a good deal)

You might argue a lack of transparency, and I'd agree, although fractions (albeit not the whole thing) have been circulating through EP debates since 2018.

For example, this week they discussed temporary allowances for British MEPs (a salary of sorts which they'll receive for a time after their term is ended), which has led to some hilarious exchanges between that weirdo Guy Verhoffstadt and Brexit party people who bemoan the 33 bn but don't want to part with their allowances either, even though in doing so they'd lower the total sum at the bottom of the "leave bill". Which only goes to show that money comes before convictions.

I'll take a dip into their archives. Remind me later about that.

But you might also ask yourself this: If the bill is arbitrary, why didn't the British side reveal it to be just that and improve its bargaining hand? It didn't. Which suggests to me those sherpas didn't just stare at blank papers for the thousands of hours they've been negotiating since 2016, but actually went through that itemised bill you'd like to see.

EU blocks Albania and North Macedonia membership bids

France led a handful of states to block Albania and North Macedonia moving closer to membership.

www.bbc.co.uk

and still countries want to join

And pray, why wouldn't they want to join? Just compare how well those ex-Eastern bloc countries do that did join the EU compared to those that didn't. Please don't start arguing there are no economic benefits to be had by joining the EU; that would be patently ridiculous.

Whether or not their accession would be good for the existing EU members is a different story. France did the right thing.