Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[Musashi]

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[Fluff]

Patriot was pretty rubbish when first deployed but if enough money is thrown at something it can work out brilliantly eventually. The US is good at fielding "barely good enough" and ending up with "bloody good"

Having been defended by patriot, only fair if I defend it, in GW1 patriot was brand new, when they realised Iraq would use Scuds, they cobbled together the code to intercept the scuds, but using Anti-Aircraft missiles, meant the whole lot then landed on some unlucky sods, and this is what killed people. Today they have different warheads, and a lot more systems to tackle ballistic missiles.

 

[Fluff]

And the Japanese were considered an inferior race too, even after they steamrolled the russians.

Then everyone got steamrolled.

Oh yeah but they got defeated eventually. A great consolation to the scores who died at the hands of the Japanese, if they were lucky enough to die quickly that is.

Don't apply the russian template to China or anyone else. Also don't assume russia will never stumble into improvement, even if it comes from Iranian or North Korean factories or strategists.

Russia has never designed it's air force to achieve air superiority, they always had the plan of keeping NATO air forces under threat over Soviet air space to degrade NATO air power, protecting their own critical sites by at minimum breaking up attacks and using their own air force in ground attack supporting their primary arm, the ground forces. And they fully expected to send scores of air craft on one way trips in that role knowing the enemy air forces and air defence network would chew them up. Acceptable because the aim was to punch through with ground forces and get inside the enemy's rear and exploit the breakthrough. Whatever it took to achieve that breakthrough. The Soviet air force wouldn't be providing cover for those spearheads, the Shilkas, Iglas, Buks etc would. Russia still uses that same doctrine.

In Ukraine they invaded a country that was equipped and trained in their own doctrine. The initial air raids were light, what idiot would bomb stuff they'd be taking control over in 10 days max anyway?, only means they'd have to do a lot more reconstructions afterwards. When the surprise had past they couldn't get past Ukraine's AD network just like the Soviets intended. So both sides have been stuck doing air support for their ground forces again like the Soviets intended, incurring severe losses as expected.

Betting on China both following the same doctrine and having equally poor equipment and being equally inept at is a really dangerous gamble. Complacency is what got an "invisible" F-117 shot down and that pales in comparison to the complacency shown by NATO leadership towards the threat of russia over the last 15+ years. There's been countless assumptions by NATO regarding russia and Ukraine is now paying the price for it in the many tens of thousands of casualties a year.

No-one is suggesting that Russian or Chinese kit is worthless. For a tier 2 country such kit can be a good option. But Tier 1 the overall strategy of air defense mostly using ground based missiles, V NATO using cruise missiles, stealth, etc its hard to see how the Russian system is in any way 'good'. Of course China is different, hence the B21, NGAD, Tempest, loyal wingman etc. Its why Japan wants 2000 cruise missiles.

The russian system is a variation on 'Castle' defense, strong bastions, all recent wars show this to be simply a big target for more nimble air based forces.

 

[Fluff]

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[Picanha]

Catalysts on the right point can lead to disintegration especially when applied to a static system.

I'm quite intrigued at awaiting Russians response. As this will reveal their true strength.

I said it earlier you can only go so far with what you have.

Doesn't matter that Russia has 3x the population.

They need to train equip and move forces as much as everyone else. And coordinate all that.

There is no magic doing this for you just because you used to talk about how powerful you are all the time.

Seeing their pontoon bridges getting slammed at home doesn't bode well either.

Add that Ukraine has its hand tied because of respecting worthless red lines enabled through propaganda and disinformation as well as using the fifth column intensively.

More than 2 years of very intensive warfare takes its toll on various operational levels.

Russia needs to be massively hit in their coordination and logistics capacities.

I heard that they already have quite big problems doing that. Their kit also seems to be breaking down adding to their problems.

On the other hand I would not advise Ukraine forces to confront IFVs with MRAPs.

You can do that but you need to ambush the IFV and fight it with AT dismounts using hit and run and meticulously plan the "run" ahead.

And this must be trained extensively.

Otherwise and this is true for both sides conscripts are not useful for complicated maneuvres. Quick conscripts barely trained are not much more than annoying objects.

 

[Mike1976]

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[Fluff]

Catalysts on the right point can lead to disintegration especially when applied to a static system.

I'm quite intrigued at awaiting Russians response. As this will reveal their true strength.

I said it earlier you can only go so far with what you have.

Doesn't matter that Russia has 3x the population.

They need to train equip and move forces as much as everyone else. And coordinate all that.

There is no magic doing this for you just because you used to talk about how powerful you are all the time.

Seeing their pontoon bridges getting slammed at home doesn't bode well either.

Add that Ukraine has its hand tied because of respecting worthless red lines enabled through propaganda and disinformation as well as using the fifth column intensively.

More than 2 years of very intensive warfare takes its toll on various operational levels.

Russia needs to be massively hit in their coordination and logistics capacities.

I heard that they already have quite big problems doing that. Their kit also seems to be breaking down adding to their problems.

On the other hand I would not advise Ukraine forces to confront IFVs with MRAPs.

You can do that but you need to ambush the IFV and fight it with AT dismounts using hit and run and meticulously plan the "run" ahead.

And this must be trained extensively.

Otherwise and this is true for both sides conscripts are not useful for complicated maneuvres. Quick conscripts barely trained are not much more than annoying objects.

Ukr is deploying the units trained in the west, and with a lot of the best western equipment, marder etc.

Unless Russia has some units left from before this all started, and brings them in - but this risks the far eastern borders, and local populations deciding to secede - or from Moscow - same risks - at this point Russia doesn't even seem to be responding. It doesn't take 2-3 weeks to start forming a defensive line, in your own country.

I think Russia's cupboard is bare, and was setup to deliver 20K new corpses each month. Changing that will take them months, and will mean good white russian boys being rounded up, in Moscow......

I think its interesting that Ukr didn't tell the west what they were doing. Makes you look at all the 'don't escalate' coming from Washington/Berlin especially.

 

[Picanha]

Exactly just imagine the US sitting back for weeks until responding to an invasion.

Those red lines and escalation rethiric. It's only loud noise by someone knowing his limitations.

Amplified by multiple sources out of different motives. Not all pro Russia but it doesn't matter.



They burned their best troops long ago.

And everyone with any rest of sense left.

Shortages are beginning to take it's toll.

Russia faces manpower woes after failing to stop Ukraine’s Kursk incursion

Ukraine has seized more Russian territory in two weeks than Russia has seized in Ukraine all year.

www.aljazeera.com

Russia's economy: A balance between labour shortage and military might

Russia's leadership finds itself in a peculiar dilemma – it lacks manpower to protect its borders and continue the fight in the Donbas, but it also needs to plug labour gaps if it is to sustain its war economy.

www.euronews.com

https://jamestown.org/program/workforce-shortages-plague-russian-arms-manufacturing/

Putin's invasion has cost him 1.7 million workers: report

Russia faces a growing labor shortage, according to analysis by independent Russian outlet "Novaya Gazyeta."

www.newsweek.com

 

[Picanha]

Donaustahl manufactures cheap loitering drones already in use by Ukraine Armed Forces.


A special production process enabling to replace carbon fiber with wood makes it 4 x times cheaper and only adds 10% weight.

The Maus can carry one combined mine and shaped charge (trench cleaner) or a bomb release mechanism able to carry different types of grenades.

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It is currently tested with an AI recognition system.

Maus – Donaustahl GmbH

donaustahl.com

 

[Connaught Ranger]

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[Connaught Ranger]

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[Picanha]

Just wanted to add that weakness invites to escalate not the opposite. Especially in Russians case.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

Start at the top purge putler.

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[Connaught Ranger]

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[Chomiq]

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Interesting, so it's the same incident that was claimed before as UKR vic getting wiped by the Russians.

 

[Connaught Ranger]

same old cannon fodder different names!

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[Connaught Ranger]

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