Crime Russian opposition figure hospitalized

NATOs headquarter is in Brussels why should it be moved to Moscow if it's not in Washington right now? Maybe this idea of dominance (by Russia) is what keeps NATO alive.

I worked with various NATO soldiers on exercises I had never the impression of being a vasal or something lesser. To the contrary there was much mutual respect.

I also never said that countries don`t have self interests. It is just not the case that in Western alliances someone rules over all the others like the SU did in the Warsaw pact.

France could even leave NATO.

And as much complicated it is how politics work, the parliamentary democracy exists. A simple proof is that no one gets his way all the time. It may have weak points but in general it's mostly a source of power and a big motor for development.

Well this is a complicated and huge topic.
 
Well, at least China is much more idependent then any EU country (all of them are US puppets).

Anyway, in my opinion this case is only Russia's business and any foreign interference is unacceptable and must be prosecuted and prevented.
Only problem is that Ruskia seems to go for the 3 P's - when the first two fail you move to poison

Nice and civilized like :rolleyes:
 
So in the end it comes down to:
- Putin does stupid stuff because he's stupid.
- It's to drive a message across that he's evil and everyone should fear him.
- Soviet Union was pretty stupid anyway.
- By the way, did we close Nord Stream 2 yet? Let's not get distracted here from the main goal.
Poisoning your opponents and seeing them die over a period of time sends out a message - Putin wants to send out a message - if not why does he do it
Ruskis have allowed him to change the law to stay in power - and keep his mates in power - swapping over with his PM mate a couple of times

To be honest you are back to the worst kind of communism - Putin and his cronies get super rich - and rest of Ruskia gets poorer or poisoned - its like North Korea but on a bigger scale

Putin has not done much for Mr Joe average and never will - so yes Soviet Union is stupid to let him take total control and line his own pockets at your expense
 
To be honest you are back to the worst kind of communism - Putin and his cronies get super rich - and rest of Ruskia gets poorer or poisoned - its like North Korea but on a bigger scale

Putin has not done much for Mr Joe average and never will - so yes Soviet Union is stupid to let him take total control and line his own pockets at your expense

I read some diferent sources so when I see bs I recognise it and that is fake news bs. We have some Russians contributing to this site may be better to ask them.
 
Nice and civilized like

n2.webp

n4.webp

n1.webp

NINTCHDBPICT000407223991.webp
 
I worked with various NATO soldiers on exercises I had never the impression of being a vasal or something lesser. To the contrary there was much mutual respect.

I suppose in your strange world during CSTO exercises Russian officers walk around the perimeter telling all foreign officers "Don't forget, you are our slaves."
And those officers respond: "Damn, I wish I was a parliamentary democracy."

NATOs headquarter is in Brussels why should it be moved to Moscow if it's not in Washington right now? Maybe this idea of dominance (by Russia) is what keeps NATO alive.

Dominance is not an idea. It's a consequence of power accumulated by any particular country, which stems from its capacity and resources in any particular field. The exact same logic applies to companies and corporations. To relationships between colleagues. And elsewhere. Whomever holds the cards, holds the power to secure his interests. There's nothing surprising nor complicated in it. Has been this way for thousands of years. And no ideology or political structure could or will ever change basic human nature.
Similarly to how the council of EU likes to exercise tactics of ostracization to reduce dissenting opinions, and feign unity.

I once had the rare opportunity to talk to an ambassador of one particular country, which incidentally is a NATO member. The response I got will forever stay in my memory: "It's not Putin, Stalin, or Peter the Great that's the problem. Russia is the main problem."
And that's perfectly expected, because down-to-earth politics don't care if Russia is a monarchy, a communist state, a democracy, a presidential, parliamentary, or anarcho-capitalist state. What everyone is concerned about is its power index and its size.
 
"It's not Putin, Stalin, or Peter the Great that's the problem. Russia is the main problem."

I'm not an ambassador or anyone of even low importance, but I said the same thing multiple times. This goes for every country, the citizens are responsible for their leaders. If the citizens of Russia are happy with Putin or Stalin and their ilk who promote an unabated aggression against the neighbors, then Russia IS a problem.
 
My assumption for how things really went would be as follows:
Scenario #1: He was indeed poisoned in Russia, but by someone other than the state, and the reason Russian medics failed to find traces of Novichok in his body, was because Russian medics kind of suck and are incompetent at their job. And the Russian state knowing something's fishy with Navalny's health condition, still didn't push for any deeper research into his condition, because they're just lazy and don't care all that much about potential findings or outcries on an international scale, so they just dumped the work of healing Navalny on Germany. (I find this scenario least likely, but at least it feels more logical than the official story. It's pure human negligence and incompetence on medical and state level.)
Scenario #2: He wasn't poisoned by Novichok in Russia and the reason for his condition was something else. That's why when they did tests in Russia they didn't find traces of anything potentially incriminating, and both the medics and the state were confident enough that they can safely send him for treatment abroad with little worries, as since they didn't find anything it's unlikely that someone else would. But during his transportation to Germany or during his hospitalization, someone got involved and planted the evidence. Because it's very politically convenient for quite a few players to cause another international scandal and cause further division between Russian and German interests. (I find this scenario more plausible, as it then fully explains Russia's conviction that Navalny's body was clean, and Germany's confidence that it in fact wasn't. And the likely reason why the sharing of samples between Russia and Germany is being blocked, is because there's a possibility that the samples Russian medics possess would conflict with the samples German medics got after the transfer.)
2 lovely stories.

All the nations round the world, hold each other to account, for the holding, and production of WMD - i.e. Novichok made by SU(Russia). Used on enemies of Russia, or at least of the current Russian government.

So how exactly are you explaining how a russian weapon, which should be kept under secure control, is now available to some random Russian organisation, that appears to hate people that wronged the current Russian government?

If your dog kills a kid, you are responsible for the dog, you go to Jail. It doesnt matter if really Putin signed an order, or he winked at his barrista, same thing.

Alternatively, there is some random Russian organisation, why is it only using Novichok on people Putin doesnt like? Surely using it on cash security guards, bank tellers, or their kids, would be effective? But no, just people Putin doesnt like.
 
I suppose in your strange world during CSTO exercises Russian officers walk around the perimeter telling all foreign officers "Don't forget, you are our slaves."
And those officers respond: "Damn, I wish I was a parliamentary democracy."



Dominance is not an idea. It's a consequence of power accumulated by any particular country, which stems from its capacity and resources in any particular field. The exact same logic applies to companies and corporations. To relationships between colleagues. And elsewhere. Whomever holds the cards, holds the power to secure his interests. There's nothing surprising nor complicated in it. Has been this way for thousands of years. And no ideology or political structure could or will ever change basic human nature.
Similarly to how the council of EU likes to exercise tactics of ostracization to reduce dissenting opinions, and feign unity.

I disagree. The world currently runs mostly to a Judeo-Christian Capitalist-democratic system. Several countries have tried different ones, notably Russia, and China. China has dismantled most of theirs, certainly adopting the Capitalist part, to a large degree.

The USA does not have dominance over Europe. It suits both parties to have for example the US military in Europe. For Europe its a help if anything happens, and for USA its another war fought 'not on their soil'. You mention companies, I believe the system works well, I work for a company, they pay me. If they treat me badly, I leave. Where is the dominance?

Russia went from Strongman(King etc) to strongman(lenin/Stalin) to strongman (Putin). Where are your past presidents? UK has 5 former prime-ministers alive, US has 4? Former presidents alive. Just because your country runs with a Dominance system, doesnt mean its the best system for anyone else, nor is it 'normal'.

For sure there are ruling 'cliques' in the west, and there are the super rich, but they tend to be super spenders, and you cant take it with you....
And the democratic system gives us the individual voters, the ability, if we wish, and where we are aggrieved about something, to get together, and vote these idiots out, and vote some new idiots in.
 
I'm not an ambassador or anyone of even low importance, but I said the same thing multiple times. This goes for every country, the citizens are responsible for their leaders. If the citizens of Russia are happy with Putin or Stalin and their ilk who promote an unabated aggression against the neighbors, then Russia IS a problem.

But if you perpetuate the idea that Russians consistently are bad at choosing leaders and/or bad at making political choices in general, then it indirectly implies Russians are a "stupid species".
Surely Russians are different in some ways, just as any European nation is different, but they aren't alien-level different, and at the very least taking into consideration they managed to win some technological/scientific/military races over the lifespan of their nation, they're definitely enough on par with the rest of the world in terms of IQ.
So the inevitable (and for some inconvenient) conclusion, is that Russians are different due to their geographical and geopolitical circumstances, and not due to any other fantastical and fictive reasons. And that's what I'm arguing from the get go.

All the nations round the world, hold each other to account, for the holding, and production of WMD - i.e. Novichok made by SU(Russia). Used on enemies of Russia, or at least of the current Russian government.

So how exactly are you explaining how a russian weapon, which should be kept under secure control, is now available to some random Russian organisation, that appears to hate people that wronged the current Russian government?

First of all, Novichok is not "a weapon" but "a category" of poisons. Hence, it must have many derivatives, and by no means should be limited to Russian borders. Nobody cared about keeping anything within the boundaries of Russian borders when USSR fell apart.
Second of all, I never proposed the idea that Novichok is in the hands of some rogue Russian group. For as far as I'm concerned, it can be in the hands of anyone, whomever is interested in it and gained access to it, by means that are unknown neither to me nor you.

If your dog kills a kid, you are responsible for the dog, you go to Jail.

That's really stretching it.

Alternatively, there is some random Russian organisation, why is it only using Novichok on people Putin doesnt like? Surely using it on cash security guards, bank tellers, or their kids, would be effective? But no, just people Putin doesnt like.

The main person Putin actually truly didn't like is Khodorkovsky, who had amassed enough money and power in Russia, he might as well could have organized Putin's assassination. There was by far no other person in recent history in Russia who posed that kind of threat level to Putin, and if would have, he would definitely remain low and careful. The supposed "threats" like Navalny live rent-free in the heads of the western MSM, but pose no actual threat to the Russian state within the Russian borders, as they have very few if at all strings to pull. Gaining support of the street's youth isn't really enough to become scary.

Russia went from Strongman(King etc) to strongman(lenin/Stalin) to strongman (Putin). Where are your past presidents? UK has 5 former prime-ministers alive, US has 4? Former presidents alive. Just because your country runs with a Dominance system, doesnt mean its the best system for anyone else, nor is it 'normal'.

Systems aren't created out of anyone's moralistic musings. They're created always entirely out of utilitarian necessity.
And recent illustrations (even though extreme) to this fact can be observed in the outcome of the Arab Spring. You go in removing a "strict regime" you end up with a nation with knives at each others' throats for generations to come.
Systems arise as a remedy to a problem, and each nation faces a different problem relative to its circumstance. One of many Russia's problems, again, come out of its geography.

Also, back to Novichok.
If you want to know how a weapon works, and what it’s designed for, all you need to do is look at its effects and the damage it causes.
Novichok was used on 3 different occasions (in Bulgaria, in UK, in Russia). And in all 3 of those occasions:
- The effect was: The victim survived.
- The damage was: Russia got blamed/attacked for it.
Now that we know the effects and damage Novichok causes, we know the purpose of the "weapon". ;)
 
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Also, back to Novichok.
If you want to know how a weapon works, and what it’s designed for, all you need to do is look at its effects and the damage it causes.
Novichok was used on 3 different occasions (in Bulgaria, in UK, in Russia). And in all 3 of those occasions:
- The effect was: The victim survived.
- The damage was: Russia got blamed/attacked for it.
Now that we know the effects and damage Novichok causes, we know the purpose of the "weapon". ;)
Actually one of the bystanders died because your state agents failed to tidy up after them and just dumped the perfume bottle

So not all the victims survived and bringing your petty gangster war to our country killed one of our citizens

How would you like it if we turned up in Moscow and poisoned a few of your random citizens and one of them died

Not only that it cost an absolute fortune to tidy up after your agents - and your lot should be made to pay
 
Actually one of the bystanders died because your state agents failed to tidy up after them and just dumped the perfume bottle

So not all the victims survived and bringing your petty gangster war to our country killed one of our citizens

How would you like it if we turned up in Moscow and poisoned a few of your random citizens and one of them died

Not only that it cost an absolute fortune to tidy up after your agents - and your lot should be made to pay

Doesn't seem like there's any point continuing this conversation.
The responses are beyond zombified :confused:
I'm trying to ask questions about the logic of said crime, benefits, damages, interests, risks, the culmination of the bigger picture.
But the responses are a spinning broken record "Because Russia did it, because Russia is stupid, because Russia has to pay, because Russia was always stupid. (or evil)" and some sprinkles on top in the form of parliamentary democracies being fluffy bunnies, and west as humanity's true "Übermensch".
 
How would you like it if we turned up in Moscow and poisoned a few of your random citizens and one of them died

Funny you should mention that!
Here is the prime suspect
Maria Pevchih2.webp

Maria Pevchih of London spent the night before Navalny was poisoned with him, illegally removed the evidence of the crime from his room in hotel and illegally got out of Russia on the German plane, entered Germany without going through customs and almost immediately gone back to UK to hide.
The only thing is Navalny did not die because she used not novichok but insulin to get him into coma and into Germany while planting novichok on the way.
Will UK extradite her to Russia for the investigation?
 
Doesn't seem like there's any point continuing this conversation.
The responses are beyond zombified :confused:
I'm trying to ask questions about the logic of said crime, benefits, damages, interests, risks, the culmination of the bigger picture.
But the responses are a spinning broken record "Because Russia did it, because Russia is stupid, because Russia has to pay, because Russia was always stupid. (or evil)" and some sprinkles on top in the form of parliamentary democracies being fluffy bunnies, and west as humanity's true "Übermensch".
No your presenting every item as being explainable - USSR broke up, anyone could have novichok. Sorry no - it was in a secure lab, and Russia is still held responsible for it. You defend the Russian system, thats fine, we defend ours, what I pointed out, is that there doesnt seem to be too many countries heading for a Russian style elected dictator system, and with so much space, and resources, what are you doing with them?

top 20 countries by GDP
I agree its a pointless exercise, but I guess you keep it going, for the paycheck?
 
Doesn't seem like there's any point continuing this conversation.
The responses are beyond zombified :confused:
I'm trying to ask questions about the logic of said crime, benefits, damages, interests, risks, the culmination of the bigger picture.
But the responses are a spinning broken record "Because Russia did it, because Russia is stupid, because Russia has to pay, because Russia was always stupid. (or evil)" and some sprinkles on top in the form of parliamentary democracies being fluffy bunnies, and west as humanity's true "Übermensch".
Perhaps you don't like it pointing out when you are wrong :rolleyes:

Someone did die - and died a horrible death

So your response is to say that you are not prepared to continue a conversation - it wasn't a conversation it was propaganda and you were called out
 
Funny you should mention that!
Here is the prime suspect
View attachment 249813
Maria Pevchih of London spent the night before Navalny was poisoned with him, illegally removed the evidence of the crime from his room in hotel and illegally got out of Russia on the German plane, entered Germany without going through customs and almost immediately gone back to UK to hide.
The only thing is Navalny did not die because she used not novichok but insulin to get him into coma and into Germany while planting novichok on the way.
Will UK extradite her to Russia for the investigation?
When they hand over the two from Salisbury;)
 
Thats right, we developed a weapon, purely to discredit Russia, and then we tested it on our own people. so simple, when you think about it......
proof?
 

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