Politics Syrian Civil War

For years I have been of the opinion that Erdogan has caused more internal damage to Turkey than he has externally. I find a lot of what he is blamed for externally to be untrue and the actual damage he has caused to be ignored by the vast majority in the West. Case in point like you said, the coup, the educations system, the financial corruptions..

But blaming him for NATO's lost support, blaming him for the Syrian war. These are not things I would blame him for.

He is accused of ethnic cleansing and doing unspeakable things to Kurds;

1. Under his watch the leader of PKK was given a voice for the first time since capture.
2. First attempt at peace with PKK was under his watch, in fact the Kurds could have chief's of Police and military officers fired for doing their job between 2012-2015, because of Erdogan's peace process.
3. He supported YPG in Syria between 2014-2015.
4. He has given more recognition to KRG than any other Turkish politician, while taking some of it away also.
5. Kurdish became common under his leadership. Kurdish education, Kurdish TV became available. This might be seen as a small deal, but he was the first.
6. He has support from the majority of Kurdish clans.
7. He let YPG grow under his watch, no administration before him would have.

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1. He was championed as a bringer of democracy for a decade in the West.
2. When the military tried to pipe down Erdogan in the mid 2000's, this faced near condemnation in the West. EU Parliament told the mil to not intervene, the US "agreed with the EU statement". A coup could have very well happened in 2003-2004, but I believe it would have been met with sanctions, embargo's etc.
3. Erdogan was the biggest vocal supporter for Turkey to join the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
4. When thousands were purged as "ultra secularists" (including myself for a short time) the EU did not say a word, but they said everything they could in 2016. When Erdogan purged us in 2007-2011, there was no legal, vocal, verbal or any help from the West, but they did a complete 180 in 2016.

EU accepted political asylum of people who are known to participate in the Turkish purges of 2007-2011, simply because of their recent stance on being anti Erdo post 2016. Former Turkish NCO's who interrogated a female Turkish Air Force LT, falsely accusing her of group sex with officers, leading her to commit suicide have Belgian political asylum at the moment. Because Erdogan. Erdogan is but an excuse to show what everybody really thinks about Turks.

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At this point, even if Erdogan goes, the situation will continue to deteriorate. The Kemalists want to pound the Kurds harder, the traditional military officers like Ismail Metin Temel, who wanted to get rid of Assad in 2018 had to be sent to Ankara because Erdogan did not want to upset anybody. Nobody wants NATO long term, don't want to waste resources on its operations, exercises. No politician, no officer wants anymore Turkish money landing in NATO in the next few years, They would rather help Ukraine finance joint projects and use the engines, munitions etc on whatever targets they want, than to keep thinking about EU/NATO arms embargos, limits etc.

US/NATO chose to support Kurds over Turkish military intervention in Syria.

Turkey was accused of letting refugees flow to Europe for years, and vice versa for letting militants into Syria for years. Even though it was revealed Turkey arrested and deported everyone that EU/US asked Turkey to detain. But all of it was ignored, because "Kurds".

Turkey was accused of supporting ISIS, despite leading the single largest NATO country operation against ISIS. Have you seen anything documented on the field in relation to Turkey and ISIS? Because I can show you documented footage of US officers posing with legitimate PKK members that have been on Turkey's wanted list since before the Syrian civil war.

NATO supported the YPG/SDF despite such a heavy PKK influence, they gave high ranking positions to known PKK members who are even known to the US and EU as big time drug smugglers that financed PKK activities in Iraq, Syria and Turkey. Mazloum Kobane or whats his face, Sahin Cilo is a well known big time drug financier of PKK, now he is a "General" with no military education, and a blue tick on twitter.

Now show me, who Turkey has equipped, armed, trained and used which led to the harm of NATO personnel? Because I can show you US/NATO equipment given to YPG, along with uniforms and personnel caught in the act of attacking Turkish assets.

I am not saying Turkey is not at fault. There were times where Turkey was passive and had incorrect, but this harmed Turkey more than it harmed everybody else. Turkish activities in Syria since 2016 is a reaction to the mistakes prior to 2016.



You talk a lot for a guy who hails from the country who sent troops to defend the official government in Mali, while supporting the guy who is trying to bring down the official government in Libya. Quite far away from home too, one must say. But that's France though, isn't it? Messing up wherever they go.
I read a long Polish article a few years ago that was written before the Turkish offensive in Afrin. Basically, its author made the same points like you regarding Erdogan's stance towards the Kurds. The guy said Erdo was initially very pro-Kurdish and offered them an autonomy during his early rule. The author also pointed out that noone in Turkey has ever gone so far with offering the Kurds so much. Erdo changed his mind later due to having been disappointed and his initial pro-Kurdish stance made him many internal enemies in Turkey,
 
I read a long Polish article a few years ago that was written before the Turkish offensive in Afrin. Basically, its author made the same points like you regarding Erdogan's stance towards the Kurds. The guy said Erdo was initially very pro-Kurdish and offered them an autonomy during his early rule. The author also pointed out that noone in Turkey has ever gone so far with offering the Kurds so much. Erdo changed his mind later due to having been disappointed and his initial pro-Kurdish stance made him many internal enemies in Turkey,

Turgut Özal and Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Two names I hate to guts but must point out when it comes to Kurds.

Erdoğan offered them everything. PKK rode into Turkey like celebrities, people put Kurdish flags on Turkish APC's.

Erdoğan offered them an olive branch (as reported as far back as 2010), and they used that chance to regroup and stockpile munitions in urban places like Diyarbakır, Mardin, Şırnak and Hakkari to continue the fight later. The Afrin op, Olive Branch is a nod to that period. The olives for the locals, the branches for YPG to stick somewhere.
 
Turgut Özal and Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Two names I hate to guts but must point out when it comes to Kurds.

Erdoğan offered them everything. PKK rode into Turkey like celebrities, people put Kurdish flags on Turkish APC's.

Erdoğan offered them an olive branch (as reported as far back as 2010), and they used that chance to regroup and stockpile munitions in urban places like Diyarbakır, Mardin, Şırnak and Hakkari to continue the fight later. The Afrin op, Olive Branch is a nod to that period. The olives for the locals, the branches for YPG to stick somewhere.
I think most of people in the West are not able to see how complicated the situation in Turkey is and how many opinions Erdo has to take into the account without risking his head being chopped off by the military. Sometimes, he simply acts against his will, as he is aware of a couple of sultans having been murdered by jenissaries who were trained to protect them.

The same author described the Turkish operation in Afrin as a great success and pointed out that the Turkish military implemented the hard-learned lessons from al-Bab.

The offensive in Afrin did not focus on any direction, so YPG could not offer an effective resistance due to its forces having been thinly spread all over the region. The Turks pressed from the east, north and west, so the defenders had to withdraw in order not to be encircled. Both military and civilian casualties were low and the Kurds did not decide to turn any big city into Stalingrad.
 
Support from Austria has arrived in Greece. Border guards from Cyprus arrived earlier this week and help from Poland and the Czech Republic are enroute.

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Nice try Tolga, might as well scream into the wind... As long as your country doesnt take a knee to the West, nobody will listen. It's the same as how they see the Philippines when it decided to be non aligned. Only made the EU shut up when the Armed Forces sent them clear evidence that the EU was supporting the communist terrorists in the country. Again their leader is enjoying his decades asylum in the Netherlands while his org is recruiting child soldiers.

My suggestion is just breath
 
For dual optic. Next time you should thoroughly read.

I couldn't read Al Monitor ones ;



You seriously posted what is literally an Armenian accusation AS proof :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D What kind of loser S**t is this?

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King Abdullah? Ah right, him.


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Ah.

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You're telling me, at the peak of ISIS, with hundreds of journalists on the Turkish border, nobody documented these very open attacks?
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Oh and a source in the article, Polat Can. Aka the high ranking PKK member who transferred to YPG who have no ties with PKK. :D

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So the article says this guy was FSA (which is Turkish supported), he received medical attention in Turkey, and he joined ISIS
but did not say which order? Oh also, does French intelligence contacting him make France and ISIS allies?

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Its undeniable, its documented... but for some reason "REPORTEDLY REVEALED" :D

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This is a goodie. Read the headline vs the content.
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Turkish authorities, stamping passports at a border crossing, what a scandal. :D
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Dude..
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Regarding any other subject, you would say HuffPost is a feminist fake news producing site and ridicule it.

Turks have made you desperate enough eh? :D Btw.

Accusation;
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Reality;
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This one. So, you went ahead and posted a court case that happened in Turkey, wherein Turkish intelligence tries to retrieve a
kidnapped Turkish soldier from ISIS?

Oh, and "okay big brother"... "tamam abi". While abi can mean big brother, abi can mean any male of older age.

Here is a kid with autism who describes being beaten by bullies but saying "abi (big brother) don't hit me". Does this make them friends?

The only Russians that know Turkish are the ones being banged in Antalya, so its natural RT doesn't know.


No reference to ISIS.


See video I posted. One side accuses, the other proves.
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@thanamestolga

Turkey faces two unstable countries at its direct borders, and a flux of migrants who hate Europe, who think Europe is morally corrupt, but who prefer to go there than any other place in the world. It is not a simple situation, complicated even more with the Kurds, who are not always angels, but who benefit from the aura of having defeated ISIS.

But you cannot dismiss that Erdogan´s policies favored the rise of the islamic state. You may dismiss some links that may be excessive, I will just post one.


Cheers
 
@thanamestolga

Turkey faces two unstable countries at its direct borders, and a flux of migrants who hate Europe, who think Europe is morally corrupt, but who prefer to go there than any other place in the world. It is not a simple situation, complicated even more with the Kurds, who are not always angels, but who benefit from the aura of having defeated ISIS.

But you cannot dismiss that Erdogan´s policies favored the rise of the islamic state. You may dismiss some links that may be excessive, I will just post one.


Cheers

Personally, I would say the early F*** ups in Syria were both Erdoğan and Davutoğlu's doing. More Davutoğlu than Erdoğan even.

If we were to get into the nitty gritty, only one countries policy favored both the creation and growth of IS. US of A.

Another incident. Either Turkish troops are undisciplined or they have been ordered to be provocative.


Or its BS?
 
Fvck yeah! Give them even more money, so more of them will come.

Of course. Was anyone actually suspecting anything else? I saw some people here saying how they were being tough on migrants, forming a single front. That's not how the EU has ever faced any crisis. The way the EU tries to solve every single problem is by throwing other people's money at it and trying to force every member state to take in every "refugee" that comes along through punitive measures.
 
A #Turkish soldier killed and 10 other injured including civilians in #YPG/#PKK car bomb attack targeting checkpoint near marketplace in border town of Ras al-Ain in northern #Syria.
 
There is a Polish article about Pantsir S1s’ losses in Syria.
The Turkish military and Erdo claim the Turkish military destroyed 8 Pantsirs, while the Russians say the SAA lost 2.
All the videos posted by the Turkish side show a total of three Pantsirs under attack. However, one of them was deployed on a MAN SX45 truck, rather than the standard Kamaz used by the Syrians, so the journalist assumed that particular one was a UAE-owned Pantsir destroyed in Libya. After ruling out that particular one, there is no evidence for more than 2 Syrian Pantsirs having been destroyed by the Turkish drones.
 
There is a Polish article about Pantsir S1s’ losses in Syria.
The Turkish military and Erdo claim the Turkish military destroyed 8 Pantsirs, while the Russians say the SAA lost 2.
All the videos posted by the Turkish side show a total of three Pantsirs under attack. However, one of them was deployed on a MAN SX45 truck, rather than the standard Kamaz used by the Syrians, so the journalist assumed that particular one was a UAE-owned Pantsir destroyed in Libya. After ruling out that particular one, there is no evidence for more than 2 Syrian Pantsirs having been destroyed by the Turkish drones.

It is more than likely that the numbers of destroyed Syrian hardware and killed Syrian soldiers by Turkey have been largely exaggerated.

As you said: truck chassis no fitting, footage taken from other conflicts, old footage being re-used, etc...
 
Captured turkish Kipri MRAP in Moscow.

ES-06bGXsAEAhUP
 
Captured turkish Kipri MRAP in Moscow.

ES-06bGXsAEAhUP

Well that's an interesting pic!

Maybe Erdo gave it to Putin. I mean they're such good friends and all. In fact, there is a video of Putin buying Erdo an ice cream cone when he was in Moscow, and maybe this is Erdo's way of thanking him.
 
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