Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[Mike1976]

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"The empty vessel makes the greatest sound"

 

[Soldier35]

Footage of the interception of a Ukrainian UAV by the Russian Yolka interceptor drone. The drone has been in use for a year now, the video was recorded in September 2024, but there is no technical information on the drone. The Yolka interceptor drone has homing and carries out kinetic interception of the Ukrainian UAV. The drone can also be equipped with a warhead. The interceptor operates on the principle of "fire and forget". This method allows you to quickly and safely respond to threats from drones

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[Hiryu2.0]

Hungary Reaches for Greater Power Across Europe

Hungary’s secretive operations in Ukraine, growing ties with China, and nationalist ambitions signal Viktor Orbán’s bid for regional influence—despite weakening domestic support and the risk of international isolation.

nationalinterest.org

 

[Hiryu2.0]

 

[Fluff]

Ukrainian casualties are "bad, really bad" because we have made a conscious choice not to give them the tools they need.
Even though we do know we know they'll fight regardless.

And again I ask: So?

Do you reckon a man who owns more palaces than you do trousers is a man who seeks to die?

I put it to you you're grossly underestimating the fact that Russia won't be defeated by a strangled economy. You're wholly engrossed in a Western-centric view point. If the Russians have proved one thing through their history, it's they're capable of enduring immense hardship, and that their governments are more than happy to imprison or outright kill the few who do speak up.

Has a situation been created where it is assured the Houthis won't renew their offensive against Israel and international shipping? No. And what did Trump himself say the day before yesterday? That America's strikes against the Houthis will have to resume in case they keep attacking Israel. Now, replace "Houthis" with 'Russians' and "Israel" with 'Ukraine' to spot the missing ingredient in our case.

You do my head in.

First of all, they'd be getting back way more than merely rubble. Economically, the occupation of the Donbas is akin to some foreign power taking Scotland (and its oil) from the United Kingdom. How bearable would such a loss be to the British?

But never mind that—you're ignoring the fact that Ukraine has long since offered territorial concessions if they get security guarantees in return. Their war effort has only one goal now: Assuring themselves there won't be round number three in a few years time.

You seem willing to roll the dice of hoping the Russians will content themselves with the concessions Trump tries to extract from Ukraine. Well, it seems the Ukrainians don't, and I can't blame them. They've been burned twice, why would they ask for a third time?

If you force Ukraine to become history's next divided Germany or divided Korea, you're going to have to adopt the very measures which ensured the survival of West Germany or South Korea.

He's testing the water? By doing the same thing over, over and over again, always getting the same defiant response from Russia?

And how did Roosevelt react to Britain's worsening military situation in 1940?
You've just argued my point.

No. That is most definitely not the argument.

The argument is that if you truly care about Ukrainian lives, then it's patently illogical to promote a solution which all but guarantees an imminent renewal of hostilities at a potentially even greater cost of life.
Why then did Trump undermine the Europeans by reneging on a previously agreed course of action and delegitimising the ultimatum the Europeans had issued?

No, I beg to differ. Trump has made it abundantly clear he considers European unity harmful to American interests, going so far as to claim the European Union was created to "screw the US over".

More importantly, the Europeans prefer a solution which Trump deems confrontational. They won't force Ukraine to sue for peace at all costs. Trump has often accused Kyiv (and by implication, its European backers) of risking plunging the entire continent into a great war. He thinks that's what the Europeans will be doing, risking war with Russia, and the last thing Trump wants is a European war disrupting America's economy or for the Europeans to invoke Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty.

He doesn't want Europe to take the lead. He just wants this war to go away. And he's decided forcing Kyiv to concede defeat is the fasted way to achieve that aim.

I would not take any security guarantees from anyone. The only security for Ukraine is a large well equipped army, bunkers and mines on Russian and Belarus borders, and don’t rebuild any of the bridges. Russia will try to make this part of the deal, I.e. small army.

Putin is blustering, mostly to his own people. Take another 4 regions, fight for 21 years. Putin will have to show some ‘win’ probably crimea being ceded by Ukraine, in return for some other land.

On dividing countries, it was divide them or nuclear war. Taking the long view, and I appreciate you will have another view, no nuke war happened, ‘everyone survived’

Ukr cannot win this. Even drunken untrained Russians would get lucky enough times to make ukr casualties unacceptable. And it would take years of prep and years of fighting. Maybe if that had been Biden and europes plan from day 1, with a plan to grow their Air Force to 100f16 and 50 a10. Start refurbing abrams by the hundred. But it wasn’t.

All your plans leave Ukrainians and Russians dying, by 100k at a time. I care zero about the Russians, but with no win in site it’s pointless.

Under Biden, US and europe agreed, to keep bleeding Russia, minimise pain for ukr. Now trump is in, he is trying peace, europe does seem to prefer bidens plan. Logically for europe, is logical. Morally it’s not so great.

But if europe really wanted ukr to push Russia back, Germany would be handing over all old leo2 and buying new ones for itself. Instead they sent what 30?

U.K. the same, we sent 30 tanks, we are upgrading the rest, we could have sent them all and built new.

So part of this, is that europe and U.K. have not adjusted from the Biden plan.

 

[PegAsus]

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[thelistener]

What dirty work, exactly?

In this case it would advancing us foreign policy interests whilst ingoringing europe's own.

If for example, France/Germany/UK/etc., said they are deploying 150,000 troops to Ukraine indefinitely and sending an additional $50 billion per year in Ukrainian aid, who exactly would stop them?

US would stop Europe if Europe deviated from the US foreign policy choices on Ukraine.
@muck responded to this nicely. US doesn't want a strong Europe, Trump has called already called: EU a system built to F*** with the US. And here you are, pretending that the US would be fine and dandy with a more unified and strong Europe doing their own thing.

 

[Fluff]

In this case it would advancing us foreign policy interests whilst ingoringing europe's own.



US would stop Europe if Europe deviated from the US foreign policy choices on Ukraine.
@muck responded to this nicely. US doesn't want a strong Europe, Trump has called already called: EU a system built to F*** with the US. And here you are, pretending that the US would be fine and dandy with a more unified and strong Europe doing their own thing.

I do think we are mixing up 2 things. Ukraine/Defense spending.

Trump wants Europe to spend more, so USA spends less in Europe, so can spend more in Pacific - I find it hard to argue with this. He is only asking us to spend what the USA spends.

And really is there anyone here that doesnt understand the ukraine deal is already done, agreed by Xi, and Trump. Now all parties have to get Ukr and Russia to do it. Trump already whipped Ukraine into line, now he and at some point Xi will cajole Putin to agree. the rest of this is theatre for the masses everywhere, but mostly in Ukr and Russia.

 

[thelistener]

I do think we are mixing up 2 things. Ukraine/Defense spending.

Trump wants Europe to spend more, so USA spends less in Europe, so can spend more in Pacific - I find it hard to argue with this. He is only asking us to spend what the USA spends.

Im not mixing it up, im trying to say that; of course US would absolutely adore Europe if it spent its share and could take care of "itself".
But in reality it wouldn't work that way, the United States would force Europe by various means to follow their foreign policy without the current "benefits" that this brings; i.e. US troops in Europe, etc.

Maybe I have TDS, maybe not, but I see with my own eyes how the United States would blackmail Europe economically, militarily concretely (Greenland) as well as by blocking arms purchases, removing Russian sanctions, and working with Russia; If Europe were to act, for example, in Ukraine against the foreign policy interests of the United States.

And the proof of this, as some have written here, is, among other things, how the United States sees the EU, especially Trump.

 

[Chazman]

@Chazman You talk as if there is good peace to be had, as long as we Europeans just stopped blocking it.

I assume you don't actually want peace at what Russians have been demanding, giving Russia way more land than it controls, neutering Ukrainian military and essentially trying to make Ukraine into its puppet state.

If not, then the war will obviously continue, until one side is in a better position.

Personally I've said many times that Europe should do more. Hopefully with European defense set to next gear, that will happen.

Edit: As for being worried about Russia, we don't have a country of 450 million. Instead the border is dotted with countries of 2-5 million people with the exception of Poland. I don't have the trust that all countries would support us by throwing in 100% of their might. Rather they might be more willing to negotiate to have a peace treaty...

No absolutely not. What the Russians are asking for is ridiculous. In fact, I'm sure they know it's ridiculous. But that's how they negotiate.

 

[Chazman]

In this case it would advancing us foreign policy interests whilst ingoringing europe's own.



US would stop Europe if Europe deviated from the US foreign policy choices on Ukraine.
@muck responded to this nicely. US doesn't want a strong Europe, Trump has called already called: EU a system built to F*** with the US. And here you are, pretending that the US would be fine and dandy with a more unified and strong Europe doing their own thing.

I think that's where things are different. The "deal" for the past 80 years has been, the US provide's Europe's security, the US secures global sea lanes, the US opens up it's home markets, in exchange for influence on Europe's foreign policy, which mostly meant being anti-USSR.

USSR is gone.

No one will stop Europe from securing itself except Europe. Poland seems pretty unhindered, Germany says it will have the most powerful military in Europe, (that might give me pause). A Europe which can secure itself and it's neighborhood is good for everyone, except Russia.

 

[Mike1976]

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[Fluff]

Im not mixing it up, im trying to say that; of course US would absolutely adore Europe if it spent its share and could take care of "itself".
But in reality it wouldn't work that way, the United States would force Europe by various means to follow their foreign policy without the current "benefits" that this brings; i.e. US troops in Europe, etc.

Maybe I have TDS, maybe not, but I see with my own eyes how the United States would blackmail Europe economically, militarily concretely (Greenland) as well as by blocking arms purchases, removing Russian sanctions, and working with Russia; If Europe were to act, for example, in Ukraine against the foreign policy interests of the United States.

And the proof of this, as some have written here, is, among other things, how the United States sees the EU, especially Trump.

I think that takes things to an extreme.

US can block arms sales from US to Europe, not sure why it would, but Europe can and has or is building: Tanks, aircraft carriers, stealth aircraft, nuke armed and powered submarines, and I'd imagine Trump would want to sell some of that stuff to Europe, especially the smaller nations.

Europe has so far followed US policy, i.e. biden. at the moment we have a split to some degree, maybe real, maybe manufactured, and to some extent that split will help to bring a balanced(or as balanced as can be found) so for example Russia asks for Ukr to be de-armed - this hurts Ukr and it hurts Europe, because russia's next trip should be back into Ukraine, so an unarmed Ukr is unlikely to be the outcome, even if Trump was trying to push this. Also hopefully we give trump some brains, that an unarmed Ukr will lead to another war, which could still suck in Europe, and then USA. So some sort of balance is needed.

 

[Fluff]

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[Soldier35]

Footage of training and combat work of Russian snipers of the "Center" group, in the Krasnoarmeysk direction, in the Dnipropetrovsk region of Ukraine. Snipers work at extremely long distances of up to 1.5 kilometers, not only against manpower but also against heavy drones. Russian sniper rifles Dragunov, Orsis, Lobaev, models "Urban" and "Vozmezdie" are used. The video is shortened, moments of defeat of Ukrainian soldiers are removed from the video

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[Connaught Ranger]

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[Connaught Ranger]

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[Connaught Ranger]

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[Connaught Ranger]

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[PegAsus]

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He used the wrong words in the end, it must have been, "a war that Vlad Putler from frum ruZZia should never have started"!