Warfare Russia/Ukraine War

[Chazman]

So the peace plan is organizing the surrender of Ukraine. OK. It might happen because there has been too much reliance from Europe on the USA. Excessive reliance that was built on trust...

I don´t think people will call it a peace plan. I don´t think there is peace in Afghanistan. An agreement negotiated by Donald Trump too. The only thing worse than the plan was the execution.

Pure speculation on your part. Your hatred of Trump is clouding your judgement. Not just you, but most in this thread.

EU is barely even a player here. That's pretty sad, actually. They are "talking" about things they MIGHT do in the next decade, though. I'm sure Putin is $hitting in his pants over it right now.

Let's hope Zelensky doesn't screw up Tuesday. If all goes as planned, I wouldn't be surprised to see the heat aimed at Russia afterwards.

 

[Chazman]

Why are you so obsessed with peace in Ukraine all of a sudden? I mean you've never expressed it before until Trump brought it up a few months ago.

Are Republicans even capable of independent thought at this point?

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I expressed it from the beginning. Go back and see my early posts in this monster thread. Jesus Christ dude, now wanting peace is endemic of Republicans inability to think. You need to seek help.

 

[Telmar]

Pure speculation on your part. Your hatred of Trump is clouding your judgement. Not just you, but most in this thread.
....

You know the story of the guy driving on the wrong side of the highway pesting at all the other drivers who he thinks are driving on the wrong side...

 

[thelistener]

So far from the EU, I've seen tender tweets to Zelensky. Mostly from Germany. Did I mention that the EU sent $250 billion to Putin for energy during the war. I will give Stubb credit though, he's actually talking about peace and a ceasefire, which is great progress. And also, the EU has NO plan for it. He seems to speak the truth.

There's an American expression. "Everyone is a ganster, until it's time to do gangster sh!t".

The video was before Zelenski's visit to Washington. After that there were meetings in london etc. Like i said, french/UK are supposed to bring a plan to trump behind closed doors.
just wanted to point out how much the trump's plan sucks (if it hasn't changed behind closed doors, or they actually formulated one) and when you criticize it, the valid is response isn't "well you do it"

 

[thelistener]

Let's hope Zelensky doesn't screw up Tuesday. If all goes as planned, I wouldn't be surprised to see the heat aimed at Russia afterwards.

Lets just hope there's a need to bring the heat on Russia to get them to negotiation table.
If there isn't such a need, well, that tells us whole lot how many demands they got through.

 

[Chazman]

The video was before Zelenski's visit to Washington. After that there were meetings in london etc. Like i said, french/UK are supposed to bring a plan to trump behind closed doors.
just wanted to point out how much the trump's plan sucks and when you criticize it, the valid is response isn't "well you do it"

Why not?

What would you like to see as a peace plan?

The only thing I've heard from you guys is: " I hate Trump so much, I hate him, I hate him, I hate him".

Maybe some original thinking would be helpful and even interesting. I guess we won't find it here.

 

[PEMM]

So far from the EU, I've seen tender tweets to Zelensky. Mostly from Germany

There was also the decision to speed up aid from the current 50 billion € fund.

 

[thelistener]

What would you like to see as a peace plan?

Well i quite like my presidents proposal he gave in a bloomberg interview 6 days ago,
1. peace through strength (arms to Ukraine) more sanctions to Russia. And its formulated with Ukraine and not above their heads. The reason why i like it, is that it doesn't jump the gun on "boots on the ground" etc, since first Russia has to come to table and compromise their demands and actually agree to ceasefire asswell. A ceasefire doesn't do any good even in the short term if Russia isn't willing to compromise.
2. ceasefire
3. peace negotiations

Now my idea what peace negotiations would look like is:
Ukraine will have to give up Russian controlled territory but not more, no limit on Ukraines armed forces, no ban on joining EU, I don't know how nato can forbid in advance Ukraine from applying since that's not how that treaty org works, but no nato is ok in my mind since nato looks like a useless org at the moment anyway under Trump. European forces in Ukraine (air, boots on the ground whatever) and possibly US as well. Security guarantees from europe with a backstop from the US to deter further aggression.

Now obviously even this is now "outdated" if i have my dates in order, since US has halted arms and intelligence to Ukraine. Making Ukraine negotiate from a position of weakness while Russia has not received anything harmful yet so they will enter the negotiations from a position of strength.

 

[Telmar]

Our socialist Prime Minister, greeted personally by Donald Trump at CPAC, said it all saturday.

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[Kassner]

So the peace plan is organizing the surrender of Ukraine. OK. It might happen because there has been too much reliance from Europe on the USA. Excessive reliance that was built on trust...

I don´t think people will call it a peace plan. I don´t think there is peace in Afghanistan. An agreement negotiated by Donald Trump too. The only thing worse than the plan was the execution.

Europe's excessive reliance on the US wasn't built on trust. It was built on short sighted self-interest.

 

[Chazman]

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