Warfare HAMAS attack on Israel, Oct 2023 & Iran’s Proxies.

[Ivan le Fou]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-informed-turkey-advance-its-operation-against-israel-turkish-source-2024-04-14/

And the damages at Nevatim:

 

[Fluff]

That would depend on what constitutes "self defense", and/or if that was indeed a case of "self defense".

Military personnel meeting at an embassy, or on consular ground, don't necessarily equate "hostile act". Iran and Syria have, obviously, diplomatic ties and the Iranian military is involved in Syria.
Now what was the meeting about? Only Israel knows, and also Syria and Iran.
Could it have been related to Israel? Sure.
Could it have been related to things other than Israel? That's also possible.
Was it a great opportunity for Israel? Well yeah.
Is Israel known for having a reputation of being a bit sketchy when it comes to doing barely-legal stuff abroad? Yeah, quite a bit. But so does Iran and Syria (though perhaps not as well known for their efficiency).

As I said, we don't know, though the parties involved do. So we are left with plausible scenarios.

I meant from a point of Israel defending itself, in court. Of course it depends which court, and who is the jury/judge.

As nothing is going to happen, then its up to Iran and Israel to sort it out.

Regarding 'revenge' for Iran's attack, Israel has always hated the Iranians working on nukes, as does most of the west. so there's my bingo marker. And a few cluster bombs on the parked up fast attack boats wouldn't be a waste, either.

 

[Fluff]

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[OldGuy]

Copium alert! - many more with the same exact brief, it was a victory for Iran to find out how good Israeli air defence is.....

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Baghdad Bob at 7:14/ One of his reports was saying it wasn't true that the American armor was in the city, on camera an M1A1 rolled past him. It was at that time they named him Baghdad Bob This leftist tripe we see today reminded me of the people that are severely ill and refusing to tell the truth. Iran is good at tossing gays off a roof and hanging them from cranes with a slow lift. Shooting captured military personnel from the Shah's Military in the back while they sat in a chair with their hands tied behind their backs. Yes sir those Iranians are some kind of super soldiers.

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[Musashi]

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[Chazman]

Even some Arabs are laughing at Iran.

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[Chazman]

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[Chazman]

What are the Mullahs thinking now? Do they feel castrated after last night's pathetic show?

 

[Fluff]

What are the Mullahs thinking now? Do they feel castrated after last night's pathetic show?

Think of their planning meeting.

Looks like one target, the main airbase.

330 weapons used, for a time on target attack, aiming to saturate the defenses.

They must have hoped for 25%, that would be reasonable, surely?

somewhere around 5% maybe less, got through, to strike the base.

Note for Europeans - middle east air bases are 50 times the size of european ones, you can just about see the next aircraft shelter, on the horizon, if you stand on your shelter.

 

[Hiryu2.0]

Nem tud az iráni nagykövetségről Damasban, mi?

Nem tudod, mi a különbség a nagykövetség és a konzulátus között, mi?

Vagy általában hogyan működik együtt a kettő?

Vagy hogyan építhet egy nagykövetség konzulátusi melléképületeket a szomszédba?

Tudja, a konzulátus munkájának részeként?

Ön is ismeri a konzulátus épületeit, akárcsak a nagykövetségeket, legyen az maga a konzulátus vagy melléképület, ugyanazokat a kiváltságokat élvezik, mint a nagykövetségek? Jobb? Tudod ezt?

Tudod... A diplomáciai kapcsolatokról szóló bécsi egyezmény és mindezen egyéb tények ?

 

[Hiryu2.0]

What are the Mullahs thinking now? Do they feel castrated after last night's pathetic show?

Well when the talk of a consulate in Damascus started, I checked the official website of Iran's foreign ministry - according to them.
1. There is no consulate in Damascus
2 The building hit by the missile is not a diplomatic building

 

[Hiryu2.0]

What are the Mullahs thinking now? Do they feel castrated after last night's pathetic show?

Don't think with the white man's head, that's the fabulous East.
. They chose to win because:
- it took a string of countries to unite against their missiles and hit the airbase. They only had to use a fraction of their supplies.
. 24 hours have passed and Israel has not retaliated, plus Washington is doing everything it can to make sure it doesn't.
See also Red Sea, arms shipments to Russia, proxy wars - they can do what they want, no one will stand up to them. So they win.

 

[Nansouty]

Even some Arabs are laughing at Iran.

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First, congratulations to the IDF for their successful defense : a single person wounded, and but minor damage in the face of a massive Iranian aggression (300+ drones, 100+ ballistic missiles) is a huge message to some of Israel's neighbours. More importantly, Iran has squandered the perception it had patiently built over the years of its military might. The message I quoted is, IMO, but a harbinger of more things to come. Expect to see in the near future a restart of the cooperation between moderate Arab regimes, Israel & the West. Iran has just proved how much of a nuisance they are in the neighbourhood, and also that this menace is far from being difficult to address. My 2 cts

 

[Hiryu2.0]

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[Connaught Ranger]

That would depend on what constitutes "self defense", and/or if that was indeed a case of "self defense".

Military personnel meeting at an embassy, or on consular ground, don't necessarily equate "hostile act". Iran and Syria have, obviously, diplomatic ties and the Iranian military is involved in Syria.
Now what was the meeting about? Only Israel knows, and also Syria and Iran.
Could it have been related to Israel? Sure.
Could it have been related to things other than Israel? That's also possible.
Was it a great opportunity for Israel? Well yeah.
Is Israel known for having a reputation of being a bit sketchy when it comes to doing barely-legal stuff abroad? Yeah, quite a bit. But so does Iran and Syria (though perhaps not as well known for their efficiency).

As I said, we don't know, though the parties involved do. So we are left with plausible scenarios.

Well color me skeptical but, for decades we know what Iran and Syria's intention is towards Israel and for sure that falls clearly into the barely legal category. I respect Israels attitude towards taking no shite from these players, Israel has the balls to do what pussy whipped Western Democracy's routinely fail to do in protecting their citizens, I consider Israel to be the only democracy in the Middle East.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Damages at Nevatim.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Well color me skeptical but, for decades we know what Iran and Syria's intention is towards Israel and for sure that falls clearly into the barely legal category. I respect Israels attitude towards taking no shite from these players, Israel has the balls to do what pussy whipped Western Democracy's routinely fail to do in protecting their citizens, I consider Israel to be the only democracy in the Middle East.

True.

But legally "knowing the intentions" does not fit the prerequisites for "self defense". Defending yourself against a mere "intention" is rather meager.
You may have the intention to rob a bank for instance.
Ok, at what stage are you?
Thinking about it?
Planing?
Getting equipped?
In your car and on your way there?
All of these actions are carried out with "intent", but the level of "intention" shifts form very low to very high.

In this case, we don't know what Israel knew about the meeting. At best it would could be treated as a preemptive strike.

Had Israel retaliated while Iran was carrying its massive strike last night, that would have been self defense, because Israel was under clear and present imminent danger. The missiles were in the air and heading towards Israel, it was clear Iran's actions were motivated by "intentions" and the content of these "intentions" were very clear as well.

I am all in favor of Israel's actions, though sometimes they can appear a bit reckless, and its inherent and absolute right to defend itself. But words have meanings and so far I don't know what, in that strike against the Iranian consulate annexes, constitutes "self defense".
Have the targets been involved been involved in some way, shape or form in the events of October 7, then ok, go for unaliving them. But that would be a "retaliation", not "self defense".

Semantic is boring, but it is crucial.

 

[Ivan le Fou]

First, congratulations to the IDF for their successful defense : a single person wounded, and but minor damage in the face of a massive Iranian aggression (300+ drones, 100+ ballistic missiles) is a huge message to some of Israel's neighbours. More importantly, Iran has squandered the perception it had patiently built over the years of its military might. The message I quoted is, IMO, but a harbinger of more things to come. Expect to see in the near future a restart of the cooperation between moderate Arab regimes, Israel & the West. Iran has just proved how much of a nuisance they are in the neighbourhood, and also that this menace is far from being difficult to address. My 2 cts

Most of the damages appear to have been caused by the debris of intercepted missiles and drones.

In fact these debris might have cause more damage than the very few missiles that managed to "hit their target".

 

[Connaught Ranger]

True.

But legally "knowing the intentions" does not fit the prerequisites for "self defense". Defending yourself against a mere "intention" is rather meager.
You may have the intention to rob a bank for instance.
Ok, at what stage are you?
Thinking about it?
Planing?
Getting equipped?
In your car and on your way there?
All of these actions are carried out with "intent", but the level of "intention" shifts form very low to very high.

In this case, we don't know what Israel knew about the meeting. At best it would could be treated as a preemptive strike.

Had Israel retaliated while Iran was carrying its massive strike last night, that would have been self defense, because Israel was under clear and present imminent danger. The missiles were in the air and heading towards Israel, it was clear Iran's actions were motivated by "intentions" and the content of these "intentions" were very clear as well.

I am all in favor of Israel's actions, though sometimes they can appear a bit reckless, and its inherent and absolute right to defend itself. But words have meanings and so far I don't know what, in that strike against the Iranian consulate annexes, constitutes "self defense".
Have the targets been involved been involved in some way, shape or form in the events of October 7, then ok, go for unaliving them. But that would be a "retaliation", not "self defense".

Semantic is boring, but it is crucial.

I might be wrong, but, I believe there exists what can be described as a state of war between Israel and Syria (on a pause) for the moment
so any strike on any installation in enemy territory, where the enemy with its allies is known to be located (a enemy, and its like minded allies are in the process of planning immediate or future acts of aggression against Israel and its citizens) is fair game to be targeted.
I stated before but here will repeat Iran is one of the biggest sponsors of terrorism and aggression in the Middle East, their well publicized statement that its ultimate aim is to see the ultimate destruction/ eradication of Israel and its people.

 

[Fluff]

I might be wrong, but, I believe there exists what can be described as a state of war between Israel and Syria (on a pause) for the moment
so any strike on any installation in enemy territory, where the enemy with its allies is known to be located (a enemy, and its like minded allies are in the process of planning immediate or future acts of aggression against Israel and its citizens) is fair game to be targeted.
I stated before but here will repeat Iran is one of the biggest sponsors of terrorism and aggression in the Middle East, their well publicized statement that its ultimate aim is to see the ultimate destruction/ eradication of Israel and its people.

Agree, still technically at war.

Plus all this talking about law, internationally you can pretty much do whatever you can get away with.

Russia and Iran have pushed this to the extreme, but this attack, from home soil, cannot be blamed on local militia, or little green men.

That said, I sincerely hope some nice little green men will fly some missions alongside the IAF.