civil aerospace Civilian aviation/aerospace thread

[colin traveller]

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[Telmar]

A Boeing employee called Lion Air, the airline in the first 737 Max crash, 'idiots' for asking to have its pilots trained in flying the plane

The messages were part of documents released by Boeing that showed employees talking about concerns with the 737 Max but still pushing its production.

www.yahoo.com

I had a rather poor image of Lion Air as a safety corner cutting airline, growing too fast for its own good...but with this info, where they in fact thought it would be a good idea to retrain their pilots, I stand corrected.

 

[colin traveller]

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[colin traveller]

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[colin traveller]

Flybe ceases operations, enters administration | Flightradar24 Blog

Flybe ceased operations and entered adminsitration on 4 March. The carrier operated regional service throughout the UK and destinations in western Europe.

www.flightradar24.com

 

[Gaz]

Flybe ceases operations, enters administration | Flightradar24 Blog

Flybe ceased operations and entered adminsitration on 4 March. The carrier operated regional service throughout the UK and destinations in western Europe.

www.flightradar24.com

I don't work in Commercial aviation so don't know a whole lot about it but this morning asked a friend who's a lot more well versed than me - the knock on effects are going to be really crappy.
There's the initial 2000 odd people who work for FlyBe who are going to lose their jobs, then there are three airports (Exeter, Belfast and Southampton) where FlyBe account for the majority of their flights. Three airports where over half of their business has suddenly dried up and not only will affect the airport staff but it'll affect the local businesses like caterers, refuelers, airport bars, cafes, & shops, car rental places....

 

[colin traveller]

Rebranding ain't gonna happen . Why did they pull the plug ?? As one of my friends who is a Pilot for Virgin Atlantic .. made the rash claim that Corona virus played a role in the Airlines demise ...

Dumbest Excuse i've ever heard in my lifetime

 

[Gaz]

Rebranding ain't gonna happen . Why did they pull the plug ?? As one of my friends who is a Pilot for Virgin Atlantic .. made the rash claim that Corona virus played a role in the Airlines demise ...

Dumbest Excuse i've ever heard in my lifetime

I guess the plug is being pulled because debts outstripped money coming in.

Coronavirus isn't the reason FlyBe went under, but yeah - I guess it was almost certainly a contributing factor. The airline was already under financial pressure and then the virus hit and passenger numbers have dropped - that revenue stopped coming in and that could have been the difference between make or break for them.

As an example, this is from an article published today about US airlines https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/cor...nes-to-race-to-cut-costs-as-demand-slips.html

WASHINGTON — Airline executives are racing to cut costs as coronavirus spreads, raising concern about lower demand for travel that is sending shares to lows not seen in years.

Airlines are waiving change fees for new bookings and in some cases cutting fares in an effort to entice travelers on board. The measures have accelerated the drop in airline stocks, which have fallen more than the broader market.

American Airlines plunged more than 13% on Thursday to $16.04, a new low since its 2013 merger with US Airways. American’s shares are down more than 22% over the past week. Delta Air Lines lost more than 7% to end at $45.01, United Airlines dropped more than 13%, and Southwest Airlines lost 3.6%.

Smaller airlines that are more focused on the domestic market also fell sharply, as worries grow over a broad drop in travel demand. JetBlue Airways closed down nearly 11%, Alaska Airlines shares slid more than 12% and Spirit Airlines fell 18% to the lowest level since 2013.

If people are scared to travel then the money isn't coming in and for an airline that was already in financial trouble - yeah, I imagine it could have been the final straw.

 

[colin traveller]

I guess the plug is being pulled because debts outstripped money coming in.

Coronavirus isn't the reason FlyBe went under, but yeah - I guess it was almost certainly a contributing factor. The airline was already under financial pressure and then the virus hit and passenger numbers have dropped - that revenue stopped coming in and that could have been the difference between make or break for them.

As an example, this is from an article published today about US airlines https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/05/cor...nes-to-race-to-cut-costs-as-demand-slips.html



If people are scared to travel then the money isn't coming in and for an airline that was already in financial trouble - yeah, I imagine it could have been the final straw.

Flybe was in financial despair long before Corona .. even made the news and also when the first cases of corona in china made the news .. No Goverment and not even the EU made a rulling that all Flights to the far east were to be postponed untill further notice ..

Profits before people's safety .. Goverments Ignorance as well Airlines owners have contributed to the spread of the corona .. AND even if Corona had never existed Flybe would still have went bankrupt ..

 

[snowmanca]

Rebranding ain't gonna happen . Why did they pull the plug ?? As one of my friends who is a Pilot for Virgin Atlantic .. made the rash claim that Corona virus played a role in the Airlines demise ...

Dumbest Excuse i've ever heard in my lifetime

CV19 might have speed up how quickly they became insolvent by reducing new revenue coming in, but their stock performance over the last five years seems among the worst in the airline industry, indicating problems in there business model.

People have been saying they were frequently flying routes between a quarter to half full for years. Which if true is kind of surprising they held on as long as they did, and that they did not make more changes long ago.

 

[Gaz]

Flybe was in financial despair long before Corona .. even made the news and also when the first cases of corona in china made the news .. No Goverment and not even the EU made a rulling that all Flights to the far east were to be postponed untill further notice ..

Profits before people's safety .. Goverments Ignorance as well Airlines owners have contributed to the spread of the corona .. AND even if Corona had never existed Flybe would still have went bankrupt ..

I know they were in financial trouble before the virus happened - I mentioned in my post.... Twice.
I'm not talking about governments banning flights - I'm talking about passengers not wanting to travel because they're scared, as this article states "British Airways and budget rival Ryanair have cancelled hundreds of flights as demand for travel drops amid fears about the spread of coronavirus. " https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51713192

I don't really understand what you're getting at with your second paragraph but as for the last part - yes, there's a really good chance that FlyBe would have gone under anyway. But to say that coronavirus wasn't a contributing factor when I've already pointed out how much it's affected other airlines is just odd.

 

[muck]

made the rash claim that Corona virus played a role in the Airlines demise ... Dumbest Excuse i've ever heard in my lifetime

Oh, it did play a role. Against the backdrop of the media outdoing each other with alarmist headlines, a general phobia against travelling (and trading with China) has arisen that'll probably hurt the entire sector quite badly. Israel's El-Al has announced it will lay off thousands. Lufthansa is going to reduce its cargo fleet by half. A dozen airlines have given their employees leave without pay.

And this is only the beginning. 2020 is likely going to be the first year since 2001 with a shrinking volume of traffic. You've been known to wear a tinfoil hat every now and again, right? Well, Greta Thunberg and the other environmentalists are going to be delighted about this crisis. What do we make of that?

 

[BravoZulu]

Abakan Avia Mi-26 heavy helicopter made hard landing at Yamal peninsula in North Russia

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[colin traveller]

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

 

[colin traveller]

The (unofficial) Jacob Rees-Mogg Appreciation Society | Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[Junglejim]

What might have been... one understand now why some of the old pilots in this Airline has a god complex.

One of the oldest existing Airlines in Asia
First Airline in Asia to cross the Pacific etc...
And now this... didnt even know about it but would have been epic.

PAL had plans to purchase 4 supersonic Concordes in 1973

Stories and everything in between about airlines and aviation in the Philippines.

www.airtravellerph.com

 

[muck]

I don't mean to belittle the fears people in the aviation industry have for their jobs these days, but it needs to be said the loss of type diversity in our skies as a result of the pandemic is frustrating to watch, too.

I'd always wanted to fly on a 717 and (as these things tend to go) had always told myself: maybe next year… That option went up in a puff of smoke. But all "Mad Dogs" in passenger service, most A340s and 757s, the majority of the A380s and the older 747s are also going to fall victim to the pandemic. Soon, most of the world's flights are going to be served with only a handful of types from the duopoly.

On a positive note, the pandemic has managed to achieve the unthinkable: Lufthansa Technik, an outfitter subsidiary of the eponymous airline, is going to build the first cargo-only A380 freighter. (Source, German.) Airbus themselves had toyed with the idea but deemed the retrofit to expensive to be competitive.

 

[Junglejim]

I don't mean to belittle the fears people in the aviation industry have for their jobs these days, but it needs to be said the loss of type diversity in our skies as a result of the pandemic is frustrating to watch, too.

I'd always wanted to fly on a 717 and (as these things tend to go) had always told myself: maybe next year… That option went up in a puff of smoke. But all "Mad Dogs" in passenger service, most A340s and 757s, the majority of the A380s and the older 747s are also going to fall victim to the pandemic. Soon, most of the world's flights are going to be served with only a handful of types from the duopoly.

On a positive note, the pandemic has managed to achieve the unthinkable: Lufthansa Technik, an outfitter subsidiary of the eponymous airline, is going to build the first cargo-only A380 freighter. (Source, German.) Airbus themselves had toyed with the idea but deemed the retrofit to expensive to be competitive.

Yeah I am already seeing airlines streamline their aircraft lineup. Philippine Airlines and Delta returning their 777, though PAL had it underway before COVID. With the narrow body aircraft now having the range to reach regional destinations, more will be phased out. An optimum one would be an A220 for feeders, A320/321 for domestic to regional and the A350 for international. All 3 can be rated by one pilot.

As for the A380, yeah it seems like it will go the Crgo route once a cheaper conversion can be had.

 

[colin traveller]

What might have been... one understand now why some of the old pilots in this Airline has a god complex.

One of the oldest existing Airlines in Asia
First Airline in Asia to cross the Pacific etc...
And now this... didnt even know about it but would have been epic.

View attachment 223826

PAL had plans to purchase 4 supersonic Concordes in 1973

Stories and everything in between about airlines and aviation in the Philippines.

www.airtravellerph.com

When the Internet was created that allowed people to send letters through the phone line it was term Email was established .. some would define normal post as Snail Mail because they deemed it too slow .
Where'as when we saw the creation of Supersonic passenger travel .. The Industry hasn't even progressed ...it's gone backwards .We have gone from Supersonic to Snail air Travel and some Airlines proudly boasting .. 19hr non stop flights from Perth to Heathrow ..

How on earth could they say it was never profitable price of a ticket was a 5 grand .. when today flying first class on a A380 costs as much as motorbike / small car Vancouver costs around 7 grand ' you just have to look on youtube at the number of Airtravel reviews .. Business/First Class ..
There is no justified reason for Airlines not to re invest in Supersonic Air travel .. whilst you can buy a Bugatti Chiron Sport that does a 300 plus and they all sell .

 

[Junglejim]

When the Internet was created that allowed people to send letters through the phone line it was term Email was established .. some would define normal post as Snail Mail because they deemed it too slow .
Where'as when we saw the creation of Supersonic passenger travel .. The Industry hasn't even progressed ...it's gone backwards .We have gone from Supersonic to Snail air Travel and some Airlines proudly boasting .. 19hr non stop flights from Perth to Heathrow ..

How on earth could they say it was never profitable price of a ticket was a 5 grand .. when today flying first class on a A380 costs as much as motorbike / small car Vancouver costs around 7 grand ' you just have to look on youtube at the number of Airtravel reviews .. Business/First Class ..
There is no justified reason for Airlines not to re invest in Supersonic Air travel .. whilst you can buy a Bugatti Chiron Sport that does a 300 plus and they all sell .

Airlines are not as profitable as most think. The business and first class as seldom full. There might be more travelers now but most of the passengers get their ticket on a budget, yet the costs of operating an aircraft are increasing or stayed the same.

Supersonic Air travel, due to its noise is why it never really became viable this is why we have noise abatement procedures and you just cant firewall an aircraft when taking it off all the way to the top.