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Politics Roe Vrs Wade Overturned

surfpunk said:
I gave up on the political class in this country solving any problems over 20 years ago. These days we no longer even agree on whether or not something is a problem...
I had a big long answer to give to you and in the end I just said f*k it. lol.
both sides always plays the other as the bogeyman...
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Hey, no worries, this was a good answer IMHO. You'd have had every right to just say "f*k you" ;).
 
AtlanticFriend said:
Hey, no worries, this was a good answer IMHO. You'd have had every right to just say "f*k you" ;).
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no no, I was trying to answer your question, I hope I didnt sound antagonistic or confrontational... the political and social problems in my country, just get really frustrating to think about after a while....
especially because the people we elect and pay to try to solve those problems, end up not even being clever enough to pour piss out of a boot with instructions written on the heel.
Neither of the mainstream dem/repub political parties stand for what I believe in, but generally the republicans are much closer. I think there are a few like me, hopefully more than a few.
 
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bobthe3rd said:
This. It is an interesting debate and I don't think that it can be framed in terms of Christians vs Infidels. OR conservatives vs democrats. Personally I have some personal moral objections about abortion but OTOH I can see why it is necessary.

I can also see the necessity for universal health care. If you want to let corporations control your access to health care then good for you. I am glad I don't live in America.
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I am not one of those "just pick yourself up by yer bootstraps" conservative Americans. People need help sometimes, and there are long standing social/economic issues in this country. The thing that gets me, is that they are solvable problems, probably in about a generation. some of them, much less time.
Too many politicians are just jerk knee reactionaries, and completely ill-suited for the job...
You solve problems using critical thinking, logic, deductive reasoning, technology and controlled experimentation..... you quantitavely identify what the problems are and work from there.
politicians in this country dont really seem interested in making anything better for anybody. any solutions they put forward only seem to tangle things more, debate only muddies the water.
This is a huge country, and extremely non-homogenous. we need a guiding principle, some idea, to bring disparate people together, give everyone something to identify with....
most likely though, its too late for that.
sorry for the rambling/incoherent mess of a paragraph, this is all off the top of my head, I consider myself a not only a patriotic American, but also a human with very few prejudices, and I am starting to feel like we are all being pushed apart, and soon its gonna be time where we are forced to pick a side.
cant we all just get along?
 
As I have stated in the past, I am not for abortion but against its banning because it just adds to the suffering.

American backers of that right should have tried to see it with less ideological blindness:: At one point, it' s a human being's life we are terminating. A limit date should have been set. perhaps it would not have helped but I cannot accept late term abortions in the absence of life threatening injury for the mother or the child.

Glass half full: maybe people will put everything back on the table and agree state by state. There will always be people hard bent on one of the options, but the "Roe vs Wade" stancewas very unilateral.
 
Telmar said:
As I have stated in the past, I am not for abortion but against its banning because it just adds to the suffering.

American backers of that right should have tried to see it with less ideological blindness:: At one point, it' s a human being's life we are terminating. A limit date should have been set. perhaps it would not have helped but I cannot accept late term abortions in the absence of life threatening injury for the mother or the child.

Glass half full: maybe people will put everything back on the table and agree state by state. There will always be people hard bent on one of the options, but the "Roe vs Wade" stancewas very unilateral.
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once the USSC overturns RvW, it WILL be in the hands of the states to set whatever limits they want. It will not be banned federally...
I dont think ANY states will completely ban it, there will probably be significant loopholes in every state, the issue will be what the cutoff point is. snipping a third trimester baby's spinal cord will probably be allowed in "progressive" states like California.
....or the whole thing will just be a rally point for both sides to start direct kinetic action against the other...
 
surfpunk said:
once the USSC overturns RvW, it WILL be in the hands of the states to set whatever limits they want. It will not be banned federally...
I dont think ANY states will completely ban it, there will probably be significant loopholes in every state, the issue will be what the cutoff point is. snipping a third trimester baby's spinal cord will probably be allowed in "progressive" states like California.
....or the whole thing will just be a rally point for both sides to start direct kinetic action against the other...
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UK law:

Most abortions in England, Wales and Scotland are carried out before 24 weeks of pregnancy.

They can be carried out after 24 weeks in very limited circumstances – for example, if the mother's life is at risk or the child would be born with a severe disability.

For USA, even if this is passed, there will still be planes, and cars, so women will still be able to get an abortion, just a bit harder.

A partial solution, which cannot be that far away, is artificial wombs, or indeed 'transplants' from the unwilling mother to what I assume would be a huge number of women(and men???) that are currently fighting against abortions.....But this would then give rise to people being 'parents' that didnt want to be, got to be some legal ramification there, although men are to some degree familiar with this risk.

Just as the trans issue/women/sport thing, this one is not really solvable, to the point of everyone being happy.

Which given the USA has had this law for nearly 50 years, asks the question of why now, its only going to rock the boat.
 
Fluff said:
UK law:

Most abortions in England, Wales and Scotland are carried out before 24 weeks of pregnancy.

They can be carried out after 24 weeks in very limited circumstances – for example, if the mother's life is at risk or the child would be born with a severe disability.

For USA, even if this is passed, there will still be planes, and cars, so women will still be able to get an abortion, just a bit harder.

A partial solution, which cannot be that far away, is artificial wombs, or indeed 'transplants' from the unwilling mother to what I assume would be a huge number of women(and men???) that are currently fighting against abortions.....But this would then give rise to people being 'parents' that didnt want to be, got to be some legal ramification there, although men are to some degree familiar with this risk.

Just as the trans issue/women/sport thing, this one is not really solvable, to the point of everyone being happy.

Which given the USA has had this law for nearly 50 years, asks the question of why now, its only going to rock the boat.
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I think it' s the same in France or Slovakia and a good compromise. there is also a mandatory week "reflexion period" that hardliners view as a way to guilt the woman before her abortion.

Sometimes the USA is really "all or nothing" and it was the case for abortions. I can't get behind that...at one point, the foetus might be in the woman's womb but it's a person not an organ. At the same time, up to a certain point the foetus might be alive but is not yet a human being.

An issue that pops up in France are the number of "repeat" abortions. Less "prevention", more "corrections" and that is not a good slope either.
 
Telmar said:
I think it' s the same in France or Slovakia and a good compromise. there is also a mandatory week "reflexion period" that hardliners view as a way to guilt the woman before her abortion.

Sometimes the USA is really "all or nothing" and it was the case for abortions. I can't get behind that...at one point, the foetus might be in the woman's womb but it's a person not an organ. At the same time, up to a certain point the foetus might be alive but is not yet a human being.

An issue that pops up in France are the number of "repeat" abortions. Less "prevention", more "corrections" and that is not a good slope either.
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All of this leads into 'problem' areas.

If you remove abortion, do you end up with more kids in care, which in the UK has lead to problems of abuse in general, and Asian men using underage white girls as toys. There are no simple answers. Abortion exists, as does sex changes, as do drugs, guns etc. Adult world is hard work sometimes.

I was going to suggest that women going for an abortion, should be offered i,e, meet with prospective adopters, that want but cant have a child, and do a deal. problem is you would end up with some women doing it as a business, and I'd kind of think only the ok babies would be wanted, not disabled etc.

Hence my point, for USA its been a stable but unliked issue for 50 years. Its clear to open the issue will create problems. What problem are they trying to solve, by opening it up. Its like Dracula's tomb......
 
Going to be honest - don't even understand why this is a subject of debate here. It's a military forum and this has nothing to do with it.

I mean, we talk about what you had for dinner and the last movie you watched and S**t and that's something we can all relate to - abortion isn't. I am sure there are many forums and interwebz places where it's an issue, but I'm not convinced it's here.
 
Ironically with contraception to prevent it freed up sex revolution inturn increased unwanted pregnancies.
Can't turn back the clock to stoning the village adulterers which was just as bad, so its now a necessary evil.

Young people have to be educated & trained just to get a basic job, job training is spun out time frame before good money, forever controlled by govt regulation consent and tax rackets, so can't afford a home & are perpetual renters.
And this is before covid lockdowns, increased debt and a recession with the banks have dished out all the money...sorry no more.

So is old Abbott in Texas going to increase solo mum benefit to re-balance all the above which is really govt inflicted poverty. So mums would want to have a family? $303 per month for two kids. He doesn't like solo mums much either.. Its like stoning them but metaphorically.
They talk about productivity. All they ever did was make it harder for the young and the rich got richer. Limited to the holier than thou oldies club assets.
 
Stand by what I said.
 
Gaz said:
Going to be honest - don't even understand why this is a subject of debate here. It's a military forum and this has nothing to do with it.

I mean, we talk about what you had for dinner and the last movie you watched and S**t and that's something we can all relate to - abortion isn't. I am sure there are many forums and interwebz places where it's an issue, but I'm not convinced it's here.
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I think maybe we are more interested that it will again polarise americans, leading to riots, patriots, Kyle, etc etc.

To me its like someone lighting a match, and I cant see any good coming from 'talking this through' again.

So its more of the politics, than the issue.
 
'cept that falling birthrates are a geopolitical topic. One of the reasons you hear that we need open borders here in the US and in Yurop....
 
Fluff said:
I think maybe we are more interested that it will again polarise americans, leading to riots, patriots, Kyle, etc etc.

To me its like someone lighting a match, and I cant see any good coming from 'talking this through' again.

So its more of the politics, than the issue.
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There are a million and twelve dedicated American politics forums on the internet.

I get that I might be wrong on this one, but there are places where posters can go to have an actual debate rather than shouting out stuff in an echo chamber.
 
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Now they can define what a woman is.

And, also, now it is a baby.
 
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