Warfare HAMAS attack on Israel, October 2023

It's one of these rare moments where I appreciate our hate speech laws.

Displaying Hamas' flag and symbols (except in non-political contexts like news reporting or education) violates § 86 a of the German penal code (use of symbols of unconstitutional organisations), which is punishable with up to three years of imprisonment or a fine.

Yelling "yallah yallah intifada" – as a call for terrorist attacks on Israel – may constitute a violation of § 111 (public incitement to commit crimes), carrying a sentence of up to five years in prison or a fine.

"From the river to the sea" – as an undeniable call to destroy the Israeli state – may constitute a violation of § 130 (hate speech) and can be punished with imprisonment not exceeding five years.

And expressing approval of October 7 either explicitely or impliticely (e.g. through that infamous paraglider image) may violate § 140 (public endorsement of crimes) and either win you a fine or up to three years behind bars.

For clarification, the asterisk here ("may") hinges on the aspects of publicity and the violation of public peace. You won't open yourself up to prosecution merely by way of expressing your hatred in your private chat group. But if you do it publicly (e.g. on Twitter or at a protest) and in a way that objectively signals your intention to rile up hatred against Jews, you will find yourself before a judge soon enough. I for one like the idea of all those leftist twats at our universities meeting the fate which they've wished on conservatives often enough.
"may" being the keyword here.
Umm, she is 21.
She only looks like an underage dimwit due to her undiagnosed dwarfism.
 
An example of someone going to a lot of effort just to be wrong,
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All the rest, I have seen before, same tactics, etc.. except this one thing. Tents/ camps in university. Seen that in Occupy Wall Street. Wearing masks to conceal identity, seen that. Blocking of roads, clashes with police, graffiti, boycotts etc… seen all that before except the “Do not speak to rule”…”we are not allowed to talk”,…”no comment”…”if you got something to ask, speak to the media liasion officer” (I dont think its solely about press,… the protesters are discouraged from speaking not only to the press, but other people (outsiders) like non-protesters or from other other side etc…).

That is new. I dont remember any protest movenent which forbade its supporters from speaking freely. When the Pro-Palestinian movement started back in October, protesters were freely talking about it, explaining to strangers/ passerby their cause, etc… but not these days and not these student protesters, they arent that interested in talking. So much so, other protesters might make some comment to remind themselves, dont speak to others etc… if they see you engaging with an “outsider”

This is the irony. They profess freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to protest….AND YET by their very action they are NO LONGER interested in speaking (at least not individually, there is no room for respect of differences of opinion). It probably started wanting to engage in a dialogue, communicating, talking with others, with the university respectives etc… but not anymore, they are more interested in just telling you want they want you to do, they are not interested to listen to you or hear your excuses/ explaination, and if you dont give in to their demand, they will act out.

  1. This is a big problem on many levels, seemingly intelligent or educated young people voluntarily surrendering their freedom of speech to a designated official of the protest movement to speak for them. Why ? Because they were told not to speak to others…how obedient ? They were probably told for your own protection,…trying to conceal your identify,..or you are not well verse with the issue, let someone else better, knows what they are doing (clearly you dont know enough) and in position of authority speak for you. You just keep quiet, repeat the chants, do what you have been told. Its quite easy for more radical or more vocal groups to use them and push the movement to a more violent path.
  2. Because they are not talking to outside their circle,… they dont know much about the subject matter. They only know whats being told to them. They are not questioning, critically analyzing, debating the information / stories provided to them, starting to sounds a lot like cult, not an expert on this subject, perhaps the could unknowingly fall victim to group think.
  3. I predict they wont go away anytime soon, they have proclaimed they will continue protesting. They will always have more demands and try to push for more and more…the protest movement started on the streets, then some blockade on roads leading to airports / ports, now on college campus, they will continue to make target big companies on the BDS lists, storming congress #2, riots on streets etc… i am not saying student protesters are violent or seeking violence by nature, but their compliance and their silence make them complicit to any illegal acts or violence carried out in the name of Pro-Palestinian movement.
  4. If student protesters fail at negotiation with their university. Ask yourself what hope is there for a peace negotiation between Israel and Hamas ? None. You are not too different. You make demands. You dont want to talk. You want the otherside to agree to your demands…if you are not able to get through to your university, just think …who can help ? Mediator. There are mediators negotiating between Israel and Hamas…who are your mediators? I think your alumni will be an ideal mediator, they understand students, they also have good relations with the university admin. They might also give the students a reality check. They might tell the students if their companies are looking to hire any students arrested or suspended.
  5. On the bright side, students ranked the middle east conflict the 9th concern, after heathcare (1st), education (2nd), Climate change (5th) etc..only 8% students participated in either side of protest. 90% says blocking pro-Israel students on campus are unacceptable. 81% support holding protesters accountable for destroying school property.
  6. NYC says half of those arrested at two pro-Palestinian campus protests were not students https://www.npr.org/2024/05/04/1249188864/nyc-columbia-city-college-gaza-protests-palestinian-campus 😱 50% are not event students,
Let me add some links

Poll https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/poll-students-israel-hamas-protests

via reddit
 
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Turkey should have been expelled from NATO 33 years ago. When it refused to allow American Aircraft to operate while engaged with Iraq after they overran Kuwait, 16 January 1991. You could also say that when Reagan sent in F-111s to takeout Gaddafi.

 
Turkey should have been expelled from NATO 33 years ago. When it refused to allow American Aircraft to operate while engaged with Iraq after they overran Kuwait, 16 January 1991. You could also say that when Reagan sent in F-111s to takeout Gaddafi.

Ummm, Desert Storm wasn't a NATO Op, and Turkey allowed the US to operate out of Incirlik during the entirity of Desert Storm, some 5000 sorties were launched from there.

Did you mean 2003???
 
Does anyone else think that it's hilarious watching folks destroy their lives and reputations, about protesting something that's somewhere else in the world over something that they have zero chance of changing anyone's minds over there? Here, let me get a criminal record in another country for being a douche to people who have no power over what Israel is or isn't doing. The lack of critical thinking is what amuses me. Some have tried calling it a higher emotional intelligence to which I replied, that's a cute straw man. Wanting to have an excuse to be an ass over anti semitism is far different than having empathy for those being affected, so again a straw man.
 
Does anyone else think that it's hilarious watching folks destroy their lives and reputations, about protesting something that's somewhere else in the world over something that they have zero chance of changing anyone's minds over there? Here, let me get a criminal record in another country for being a douche to people who have no power over what Israel is or isn't doing. The lack of critical thinking is what amuses me. Some have tried calling it a higher emotional intelligence to which I replied, that's a cute straw man. Wanting to have an excuse to be an ass over anti semitism is far different than having empathy for those being affected, so again a straw man.
It is indeed crazy. I’d suggest it’s boredom. For sure there are lots of rights and wrongs through the history of the Palestine area, and of the Jews. But decisions were made 70 years ago, and in a similar way to those made for India/Pakistan.

To decide now, that some university in USA/U.K. or europe will influence Israel, or hamas or uncle joe is a failure of logic, or as they now say, critical thinking. To risk your personal ‘brand’ or future, with such certainty, that hamas/gazans are the right side, irrespective of what they did/do, is a crazy calculation to make.

The only positive I can see is that at least they will protest over something, but this does not feel like the issue to do so. If I look at USA, I’d suggest politics/guns/abortion/immigration are far more worthy of consideration.

If I was a 18 yo student, I’d be protesting that the Choice is an 80+ guy who most likely has entered his decline, versus a 75+ guy, who probably will enter his decline in the next 4 years. Not that choices in U.K. are much better.
 
It is indeed crazy. I’d suggest it’s boredom. For sure there are lots of rights and wrongs through the history of the Palestine area, and of the Jews. But decisions were made 70 years ago, and in a similar way to those made for India/Pakistan.

To decide now, that some university in USA/U.K. or europe will influence Israel, or hamas or uncle joe is a failure of logic, or as they now say, critical thinking. To risk your personal ‘brand’ or future, with such certainty, that hamas/gazans are the right side, irrespective of what they did/do, is a crazy calculation to make.

The only positive I can see is that at least they will protest over something, but this does not feel like the issue to do so. If I look at USA, I’d suggest politics/guns/abortion/immigration are far more worthy of consideration.

If I was a 18 yo student, I’d be protesting that the Choice is an 80+ guy who most likely has entered his decline, versus a 75+ guy, who probably will enter his decline in the next 4 years. Not that choices in U.K. are much better.
I think you nailed it, because they are bored and already frustrated about the usual topics you mentioned. However it's still not going to change things over there. And agreed, there are more important hills to die on over here. However choosing stubborn confrontations with people who have no control other is not the answer. It's impotent rage.

I am fine with civil discourse and am a believer in differences can cause growth. Not direct change but a mutual understanding where both sides are coming from. However showing no respect for us and the rule of law, and use fallacies as an excuse to act a certain way because doing BOTH is a sign of no actual position to debate from and I'm going to take a person to task for it.

They can change minds with proper factual based discussions if they really do have one that isn't a logical fallacy in any regard. I know I have.

I won a pacifist over to realize that despite violence not being the answer, not defending either is a sign of weakness for the attacker to exploit.

I've won anti gunners over on why I take training seriously because each bullet used in self defense has a lawyer attached and I also have a moral responsibility to the public to be safe and trusted to do so with.

I've won people over who think buying medical stuff is prepping for Armageddon. No, I am trained and have had to use it more than once. If I can save another life and being a position to stop the bleed and wait for the responders, then I am good with things. To not want to save a life or even help those in need like helping an elderly struggling in this AZ heat with a flat is cowardly and I don't want that on my conscience. If I am seeing a better way to problem solve a pressure bandage that bonafide 18D's are recommending, then I will be buying.

Back before the off tangent, it's just sad how they go about things here on the things that they have no control over. Like watching an overgrown adult child having a temper tantrum because they are not getting their way. In the end it's still going to be a no from a stern "parent" just like when they were a child, and then put in the corner when FAFO afterwards and pout even more with no desert.
 
Ummm, Desert Storm wasn't a NATO Op, and Turkey allowed the US to operate out of Incirlik during the entirity of Desert Storm, some 5000 sorties were launched from there.

Did you mean 2003???
The US had to pay Turkey to use their airfield , every NATO member provided support in one way or another. Japan constitutionally could not commit to combat but they did supply millions in vehicles. We were not real happy with Turkey and we should not have been forced to pay for the use of their field. Allies don't do that to one another. A very good reason to say our strongest ally in the mid east is Israel but they were left out to prevent them from becoming a target. When you have France Britain Germany Australia and more involved in a war footing it most certainly was a NATO affair. Who do you think was behind all the logistics involved ? ;0)
 
The US had to pay Turkey to use their airfield , every NATO member provided support in one way or another. Japan constitutionally could not commit to combat but they did supply millions in vehicles. We were not real happy with Turkey and we should not have been forced to pay for the use of their field. Allies don't do that to one another. A very good reason to say our strongest ally in the mid east is Israel but they were left out to prevent them from becoming a target. When you have France Britain Germany Australia and more involved in a war footing it most certainly was a NATO affair. Who do you think was behind all the logistics involved ? ;0)
With friends like Turkey....
 
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