Mil News First 10 Women Graduate From Infantry Officer Course

[Jake84]

I think it indeed just go beyond the “lowering standards for womyn” issue, and what we have discussed previously in different threads: younger generations, Americans or otherwise aren’t quite accustomed to long and difficult march in the woods, being yelled at and not having internet or phone for weeks on end.

I’m fine with discussing all this stuff, anyhow.

 

[haze99]

You're being weird about this. Female conscription is supported by Scandinavian societies as a whole. And much like in the case of Israel, it makes a lot of sense for them to broaden their recruitment pool considering their small populations. The left did ask for this, and just this once I say: Good for them.

Nothing weird about my post.
I know most can grasp the fact that war is brutal and since a number of Western societies have jettisoned moral standards, a mindset believes service in frontline militaries is some sort of noble step. All the while at loss as to why their population is decreasing....

 

[muck]

Nothing weird about my post.

I beg to differ. You have a decisively American-centred view on this subject: American feminists may not want to reap what they sow, but the Scandinavians have a different mentality. Besides, your whole attitude is weird, beginning only with your inflationary use of the word "beta male". You clearly have an axe to grind.

I know most can grasp the fact that war is brutal and since a number of Western societies have jettisoned moral standards, a mindset believes service in frontline militaries is some sort of noble step. All the while at loss as to why their population is decreasing....

Are you trying to tell me Western populations are decreasing because we let women do a "man's job"? Societies decrease in fertility the richer they become, regardless of what roles they allow women to fill. That's the inevitable result of children being no longer required for manual labour in support of their family's sustenance, as well as the costs and rigours of parenting conflicting with the materialistic wishes of potential parents. That's true for egalitarian Denmark as much as it is for ultra-Catholic Poland or Wahhabist Saudi Arabia.

 

[haze99]

I beg to differ. You have a decisively American-centred view on this subject: American feminists may not want to reap what they sow, but the Scandinavians have a different mentality. Besides, your whole attitude is weird, beginning only with your inflationary use of the word "beta male". You clearly have an axe to grind.
Are you trying to tell me Western populations are decreasing because we let women do a "man's job"? Societies decrease in fertility the richer they become, regardless of what roles they allow women to fill. That's the inevitable result of children being no longer required for manual labour in support of their family's sustenance, as well as the costs and rigours of parenting conflicting with the materialistic wishes of potential parents. That's true for egalitarian Denmark as much as it is for ultra-Catholic Poland or Wahhabist Saudi Arabia.

Beg all you want, no 'axe to grind' just speaking the truth, which is typically ignored with dire consequences. I am aware of the cultural view of other nations and the history that brought these developments about. And why those nations have conscription due to limited population size after World War II and a location to hostile nations.

Yes, this is one aspect to population decrease, since women are not seeking to marry and bare children. There is clearly a mindset that thinks men and women are identical, just with different external parts. Believing they are Lego blocks you can swap out at a whim. If true, there would be no separate categories for men and women in the Olympics. Clearly FIFA does not mix men and women noting this biological reality, nor the NFL, MLB or NBA in America. There is a WNBA for a reason.

Since the inception of the US military, this nation has not had to have women in strenuous and demanding positions of frontline units and specialties. (Still does not, nor did the Pentagon ask for this) The factors for why this is not a beneficial step have been listed in the past. The forces now have 'reinvent the wheel' in order to accommodate these false notions. Be that as it may , Western societies have jettisoned the values for which provided their wellbeing for these fallacies.

It is enough that men have to fight wars, to send women in when not for your survival...
https://www.army.mil/article/263809/43_year_old_mother_teacher_fulfills_army_dream

 

[Fluff]

I served with women, and I'd say in specialist trades, they were normally better than the average male.

If your just talking about infantry and real front line situation, yes war can be brutal. outside of that, who cares what gender the button pusher is? Your still going to die when the guided missile hits your tank.

And if you utterly exclude women, then you end up with how Russia is, where women are happy for men and sons to go die, if it gets them a pension or a Lada. Given 'equality' it seems better to me, that everyone is in the same boat.

Demographics plays a part in this, as @muck said, raising kids costs a fortune, less in total, less men for the army, so open up to women, and you have 10% more bodies than before.

Thousands of women will have served in Iraq, and afghanistan, from many nations, so this horse, has well and truly bolted.

 

[haze99]

I served with women, and I'd say in specialist trades, they were normally better than the average male.

Nice to know, I am not saying a woman has a lesser IQ or capacity in this support role.

If your just talking about infantry and real front line situation, yes war can be brutal. outside of that, who cares what gender the button pusher is? Your still going to die when the guided missile hits your tank.

Easy to say in theory, another issue within the unit, since there are many dynamics that must dealt with as a section leader. A number of these issues bog down unit readiness and morale. Staying fit and healthy is another, frontline service is very physically grueling and injuries will compound. Especially for women, since they have a different physiology, they will end up going to sick call more often and placed on medical profile, which limits their training availability. To have effectiveness requires a unity and strong bond, these interpersonal dynamics do not enhance this. Thinking men and women are just going 'jell' together lacks the reality of interpersonal dynamics. Its one thing to work in a corporate office, another to be slinging shells on artillery tube over an 8 hour gun run.

And if you utterly exclude women, then you end up with how Russia is, where women are happy for men and sons to go die, if it gets them a pension or a Lada. Given 'equality' it seems better to me, that everyone is in the same boat.

A grand notion for one not in the trenches, though if you want to shove your sister, daughter, niece or mother into this position...the militaries that your nation may fight in the future will not have the values of the Swiss, Swedes or Portuguese. Again I do not refer to no women in service, just frontline formations and specialties. Many women enjoy and do well in finance, medical/dental, cyber, and administration. As the DoD has discovered, most women are not interesting in serving in the frontline units.

Demographics plays a part in this, as @muck said, raising kids costs a fortune, less in total, less men for the army, so open up to women, and you have 10% more bodies than before.

If finances were an issue for our parents, most of us on this website would not have been born. Not the wisest decision to forego having children or equipping your military. Allowing more women will not make your units more lethal.

Thousands of women will have served in Iraq, and Afghanistan, from many nations, so this horse, has well and truly bolted.

Oh yeah that they have, those campaigns were not WW2-level warfare. What is never addressed, pregenacy. This was a readiness issue during Operation Desert Shield & Desert Storm, many women became pregnant before deployment and did not go. Others once in theater became pregnant and were returned to the US leaving some poor Joe to fill in her position. Same issue took place in both nations you mentioned, at least with US forces. So readiness was degraded and morale was affected. Yes, as stated in the fleet, that ship has sailed, in this case the S.S. Titanic.

 

[Fluff]

Nice to know, I am not saying a woman has a lesser IQ or capacity in this support role.

Easy to say in theory, another issue within the unit, since there are many dynamics that must dealt with as a section leader. A number of these issues bog down unit readiness and morale. Staying fit and healthy is another, frontline service is very physically grueling and injuries will compound. Especially for women, since they have a different physiology, they will end up going to sick call more often and placed on medical profile, which limits their training availability. To have effectiveness requires a unity and strong bond, these interpersonal dynamics do not enhance this. Thinking men and women are just going 'jell' together lacks the reality of interpersonal dynamics. Its one thing to work in a corporate office, another to be slinging shells on artillery tube over an 8 hour gun run.

A grand notion for one not in the trenches, though if you want to shove your sister, daughter, niece or mother into this position...the militaries that your nation may fight in the future will not have the values of the Swiss, Swedes or Portuguese. Again I do not refer to no women in service, just frontline formations and specialties. Many women enjoy and do well in finance, medical/dental, cyber, and administration. As the DoD has discovered, most women are not interesting in serving in the frontline units.

If finances were an issue for our parents, most of us on this website would not have been born. Not the wisest decision to forego having children or equipping your military. Allowing more women will not make your units more lethal.

Oh yeah that they have, those campaigns were not WW2-level warfare. And has had happened in Operation Desert Storm, many women became pregnant before deployment and did not go. Others once in theater were returned to the US leaving some poor Joe to fill in her position. Same issue took place in both nations you mentioned, at least with US forces. So readiness was degraded and morale was affected.
Yes, as stated in the fleet, that ship has sailed, in this case the S.S. Titanic.

I was in desert storm, I don’t recall anyone getting pregnant to avoid it. Most of us enjoyed the real thing. I do recall the locals having some issues with women, bare arms, no head coverings etc. the locals were withdrawn, for the duration.

It’s very unlikely we will see ww2 warfare, Ukraine shows the western way, of air power, guided munitions etc, is a good plan, against mass armour and human waves.

As you say, we don’t talk about 50% women, we probably see 5% or less on the frontline. I think we can survive this.

I think you also underestimate the benefits women bring. Men see force x weight. Women don’t have that capability, so they find alternative ways to the same result.

I personally don’t see it, as you clearly do.

 

[haze99]

Different experiences fluff, though the bottom-line biology is not a 'construct', as some believe. No doubt there is a benefit to women serving, just NOT in the capacity the few have been jammed into. In which case, all the Joe's have to make do to accommodate the forced 'inclusion'.
While the West continues to push fantasies (in a number of arena's) reality is a LOT different.

https://www.army.mil/article/265368/just_do_it

https://www.army.mil/article/265293/career_change_led_soldier_pioneer_to_critical_army_capability

 

[haze99]

Female Army Reserve Soldier Receives Ranger Tab

“Anyone can do it, if you set your mind to it.”Many children grow up hearing such platitudes, and most of us stop believing in them by the time we are young adults. This is not the case for 1st Lt.

www.usar.army.mil

Soldier, single mom of two, perseveres to find balance

FORT CAVAZOS, Texas — Her day begins at 3:30 a.m., when Sgt. Kathryn Daniels hydrates and prepares herself for work as a Stryker systems mechanic.

www.army.mil

 

[haze99]

You don't say,
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2023-06-15/army-soldiers-recruiting-women-10451347.html

 

[haze99]

Imagine that.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...lite-special-operations-roles-new-data-shows/