- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 4,423
- Points
- 384
No worries, I’m not asking you to leave or threatening you in any way, just please don’t use words like that. All good. Thanks.
Warfare HAMAS attack on Israel, Oct 2023 & Iran’s Proxies.
- Thread starter Musashi
- Start date
No worries, I’m not asking you to leave or threatening you in any way, just please don’t use words like that. All good. Thanks.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 6,883
- Points
- 293
I don't see the point in leaving, but if that's the case, thank you for the stories you've posted.
Israel should consider adopting the approach we Lebanese are contemplating for Syrians and Palestinians: relocating them to Europe.
If they want to showcase compassion and forgiveness, they could embrace the method of "Uncle Abbott." If others disapprove of how terrorists are being handled, no problem—let them take responsibility, with a cherry on top.
Ben should gather the Palestinians, put them on a ship, and send them to Europe. Let’s see how content they are with dealing with radicalism there.
Don’t take it too personally, man. I’m an Arab and a Muslim, and I call everyone names outside this forum, knowing they call me the same—it’s all in good humor even though sometimes its not. People need to develop thicker skin these days.
That said, I get where Jake is coming from. This is a professional, mature forum with participants from all over the world. Most importantly, if things get out of hand, M.I could face legal risks and damage its reputation.
On a lighter note, I really enjoy reading your posts, along with 95% of the posters here. So again, don’t take it too seriously. Christmas is around the corner—enjoy the snow and a warm cup of cocoa! Cheers!!!
H
His name is Hussein, meaning he’s likely Muslim. I’m 2000% certain he coordinated with Hezbollah to distract the IDF. It’s highly probable he was instructed to intervene to help them evade or retreat from Israeli forces.
His name is Hussein, meaning he’s likely Muslim. I’m 2000% certain he coordinated with Hezbollah to distract the IDF. It’s highly probable he was instructed to intervene to help them evade or retreat from Israeli forces.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 6,883
- Points
- 293
I'm fairly certain international law and treaties like the NATO charter have some things to say on fair elections too, like not weaponizing the courts against your political opponents, journalists and authors
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
- Messages
- 3,115
- Points
- 238
''sell them''
Actually, if you think about it, Turkey could have provided them excellent support if they wanted. You must have heard about the recent attack on the Turkish aviation company. The parent company of that firm, ASELSAN, was established in 1975 right after the Cyprus War, specifically to produce the country's own communication devices. In the following years, they started manufacturing everything.
Currently, Turkey provides telecommunications systems to many NATO countries. In short, what I mean is that if they wanted, they could fully support Hamas.
The Turkish state is playing a solid political game here. In 2019, when Turkey launched an operation to secure its border with Syria, the U.S. immediately called for a halt because they do not view the YPG as they do the PKK. Knowing that Trump is likely to be re-elected, Turkey is using the Hamas card: "You recognize the YPG, and I'll deal with Hamas." It’s that simple. Otherwise, why would we Turks support a pro-Iranian and violent organization? Erdoğan may be old and an Islamist, but he’s not stupid.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
- Messages
- 3,115
- Points
- 238
ISIS lovers ? Turkey is not a country you can threaten with something like "surrender in 48 hours (2003)", or make a choice Yankee. Get that through your tax-paying, overweight obese brain first. Turkey has lost dozens of soldiers and police officers fighting against ISIS, endured a dozen attacks, and is still actively combating them. Do you know why, Yankee? Because they were born in Iraq, where you entered for oil and to supposedly eliminate Al-Qaeda you creat this guys. So it's clear who LOVER here really is. The Turkish nation supports whoever it wants. Hamas or Pastafarianists.
Every country prioritizes its own interests. Besides, NATO is not Israel’s bootlicker or some organization for freedom and democracy. It was created to protect Europe and the Pacific from the Soviets & Commies. And right now, the only ones truly capable of providing that protection are the UK, Poland, and Canada. Other than that, what even is NATO After removing Turkey?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
- Messages
- 4,004
- Points
- 234
Regarding the ICC case against Netanyahu, allow me to chime in with an unsolicited opinion (so I get something out of my degree before they'll replace me with an AI 
):
Jurisdiction
Israel's repudiation of ICC authority is immaterial. It's been a well-established principle since Tokyo (IMTFE) that customary international law binds all nations regardless of whether or not they're signatories to the applicable treaties. The law of armed conflict has no opt-out clause.
(In this context, I'd like to point out it was American legal scholars who came up with the idea, and that Truman coaxed the world into acquiescence. I would also suggest no one in Tel Aviv or Washington (or this forum for that matter) would protest or threaten sanctions if the ICC ever succeeded in getting Putin and Shoigu arrested, although Russia does not recognise the ICC either.)
H o w e v e r.
Admissability
The ICC is bound by the Principle of Complementarity. Art. 17 (1) and (2) of the Rome Statute clearly state national jurisdiction is only superseded if and when a national judiciary is either practically unable to investigate/prosecute allegations of war crimes; refuses to investigate/prosecute allegations of war crimes; or fails to investigate/prosecute allegations of war crimes for no good reason.
I'm gonna ask my old professor about this tonight, but I would contend that none of the three conditions are met.
As a constitutional democracy, Israel does have an independent and functioning judiciary. It's fair to say that Netanyahu's government tried to undermine it, but they're not there just yet.
I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever suggesting that Israel's judiciary would never investigate Israel's political leaders. In fact, given the number of times the incumbent administration has been challenged by the Attorney General and by the Supreme Court of Israel, I would suggest they're perfectly willing and capable of doing just that.
Last but not least, I would point to Art. 17 (2) (b), which defines failure or unwillingness to investigate/prosecute as (amongst other things) "unjustified delay". Israel is a country at war, though. Legal proceedings on all levels of the judiciary have been interrupted by attacks from Hamas, Hisbullah and Iran. The courts and prosecutors' offices have remained closed for weeks at a time. I'd view that as "justified delay".
It is important to remember that the Office of the Prosecutor had requested these warrants in May, just weeks into the events which Karim Khan said were in violation of international law. It's just unreasonable to expect the law enforcement agencies and the judiciary of a country at war to be that fast. Which begs the question, what's motivated this decision?
Politicised justice
The Israeli government has denounced The Hague's decision as anti-Semitic, even branding it as "our century's Dreyfus affair" (which is silly, of course; Dreyfus was framed for something he hadn't done, in contrast to which the ICC merely disputes the legality of what Netanyahu did do). Now, are these proceedings influenced by anti-Semitism? Maybe, but I think the truth is much more mundane.
Karim Khan is a left-winger with a record of proceedings marking him as someone who buys into post-colonial theory. He is not neutral. Neither is the ICC here, because it's using this trial for its own ends.
Since the 2000's, international law has often been left reeling – not least due to the actions of some Western countries (*cough* Iraq *cough*). And the dictators and authoritarian regimes of the world love to criticise us for it. Just listen to the average speech given at any BRICS summit, where the likes of Ramaphosa will reliably denounce the Western world order as hypocritical.
"Rules for thee but not for me", that's how Brazil's Lula described it. It seems to me that the concurrence of the ICC's pressing charges against Netanyahu and Hamas' leadership is simply supposed to convince the "Global South" that we do hold our own accountable.
):Jurisdiction
Israel's repudiation of ICC authority is immaterial. It's been a well-established principle since Tokyo (IMTFE) that customary international law binds all nations regardless of whether or not they're signatories to the applicable treaties. The law of armed conflict has no opt-out clause.
(In this context, I'd like to point out it was American legal scholars who came up with the idea, and that Truman coaxed the world into acquiescence. I would also suggest no one in Tel Aviv or Washington (or this forum for that matter) would protest or threaten sanctions if the ICC ever succeeded in getting Putin and Shoigu arrested, although Russia does not recognise the ICC either.)
H o w e v e r.
Admissability
The ICC is bound by the Principle of Complementarity. Art. 17 (1) and (2) of the Rome Statute clearly state national jurisdiction is only superseded if and when a national judiciary is either practically unable to investigate/prosecute allegations of war crimes; refuses to investigate/prosecute allegations of war crimes; or fails to investigate/prosecute allegations of war crimes for no good reason.
I'm gonna ask my old professor about this tonight, but I would contend that none of the three conditions are met.
As a constitutional democracy, Israel does have an independent and functioning judiciary. It's fair to say that Netanyahu's government tried to undermine it, but they're not there just yet.
I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever suggesting that Israel's judiciary would never investigate Israel's political leaders. In fact, given the number of times the incumbent administration has been challenged by the Attorney General and by the Supreme Court of Israel, I would suggest they're perfectly willing and capable of doing just that.
Last but not least, I would point to Art. 17 (2) (b), which defines failure or unwillingness to investigate/prosecute as (amongst other things) "unjustified delay". Israel is a country at war, though. Legal proceedings on all levels of the judiciary have been interrupted by attacks from Hamas, Hisbullah and Iran. The courts and prosecutors' offices have remained closed for weeks at a time. I'd view that as "justified delay".
It is important to remember that the Office of the Prosecutor had requested these warrants in May, just weeks into the events which Karim Khan said were in violation of international law. It's just unreasonable to expect the law enforcement agencies and the judiciary of a country at war to be that fast. Which begs the question, what's motivated this decision?
Politicised justice
The Israeli government has denounced The Hague's decision as anti-Semitic, even branding it as "our century's Dreyfus affair" (which is silly, of course; Dreyfus was framed for something he hadn't done, in contrast to which the ICC merely disputes the legality of what Netanyahu did do). Now, are these proceedings influenced by anti-Semitism? Maybe, but I think the truth is much more mundane.
Karim Khan is a left-winger with a record of proceedings marking him as someone who buys into post-colonial theory. He is not neutral. Neither is the ICC here, because it's using this trial for its own ends.
Since the 2000's, international law has often been left reeling – not least due to the actions of some Western countries (*cough* Iraq *cough*). And the dictators and authoritarian regimes of the world love to criticise us for it. Just listen to the average speech given at any BRICS summit, where the likes of Ramaphosa will reliably denounce the Western world order as hypocritical.
"Rules for thee but not for me", that's how Brazil's Lula described it. It seems to me that the concurrence of the ICC's pressing charges against Netanyahu and Hamas' leadership is simply supposed to convince the "Global South" that we do hold our own accountable.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2019
- Messages
- 1,212
- Points
- 248
Not really. When it comes to international institutions like UNSC, ICC etc. the support for Israel is fairly consistent and bipartisan.
The reason being, that Israel is very often used as a convenient target in the US sphere of influence - attack it, either to create a precedent to go after other Western powers (US, UK being the primary candidates), or force US to protect Israel by excising its veto powers or sanctions, which in itself creates optics of hypocrisy and causes a degree of embarrassment to US on international stage. A win-win.
For US its a matter of preserving its sovereignty and ability to pursue its global interests without the threat of institutions like that, hence the Hague Invasion Act, for example. Protecting Israel thus is more or less direct extension of this policy. Not without exceptions though.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
- Messages
- 3,115
- Points
- 238
Also I got fcn angry how dare you to say Isis lovers aka Turkey while this rats burned 2 Turkish Soldiers alive
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2019
- Messages
- 1,212
- Points
- 248
Settle down. I'm lazy too dig it up right now, but I'm fairly sure close cooperation between Turkey and Isis in Syria against the Kurds is fairly well documented.
Not to mention, that Turkey has been openly hosting Hamas for more than a decade now. Hamas and Isis, of course, being offshoots of the same ideological religious movement, with more or less exactly the same MO. All the while Turkey under wannabe Sultan Erdogan has openly and explicitly made itself the champion of the modern Sunny Islamism with pan-ME ambitions. So not sure but what you are offended exactly. That the dogs you've been feeding bite your hand occasionally..?
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 4,423
- Points
- 384
I mean, as people and citizens of whatever countries we can all get a bit emotional about things. I’m not a Turk but if I was to be associated with ISIS or Hamas It’d upset me too.
Erdo has been playing with fire, infuriated his population when, for instance after the horrendous Christchurch terror attacks targetting Muslims he showed the video of the massacre to an angry Turkish crowd (to what purpose anyway? Saying that the whole western world cheered on something like that)?
The Middle East (broadly said) is a very complex issue, has been about forever and the powder keg will apparently only worsen.
Erdo has been playing with fire, infuriated his population when, for instance after the horrendous Christchurch terror attacks targetting Muslims he showed the video of the massacre to an angry Turkish crowd (to what purpose anyway? Saying that the whole western world cheered on something like that)?
The Middle East (broadly said) is a very complex issue, has been about forever and the powder keg will apparently only worsen.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
- Messages
- 3,115
- Points
- 238
First of all, there is no such thing as this kind of "documenting." You're creating a scenario for yourself to believe in—this is not a Hollywood or Spielberg movie; this is the real world. That bias came from Russians when we down their plane butthurt propaganda surely all anti Turks fall in. I explained above why we support those; otherwise, as the Turkish nation, we have no hatred toward Israel or Jews. I hope you are aware that throughout history, from the Spanish Inquisition to the Nazi massacres, Turks have always protected Jews. Turkey's support for Hamas has always been rhetorical; it has never extended to material assistance. Moreover, the type of ideology Erdoğan adheres to does not concern me or my country. Even the smallest amount of intelligence would understand that these "dogs" were initially released from cells to ensure Assad's opposition wouldn't win. Who knows, maybe these "dogs" were trained by Mossad, because the last thing Mossad would want is an Egypt, Syria, and Turkey governed by Muslim Brotherhood-style governments. And yet, while these "dogs" attacked entire Europe & us, it’s remarkable that not a single Israeli was harmed...
neutral video
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
- Messages
- 3,115
- Points
- 238
I understand what you’re saying, and you're right that people, regardless of their nationality, can feel emotional when being unfairly associated with extremist groups like ISIS or Hamas.
Regarding Erdoğan, his actions often seem to provoke strong reactions. However, in the Christchurch incident, much of what was written on the weapon was anti-Turkish sentiment. If this had happened to Israel, Netanyahu would have spent the next ten years using it for propaganda, claiming that anti-Semitism had been spread.
The Middle East has been a bloodbath since the Sykes-Picot Agreement and the discovery of oil. Before Erdoğan, we saw even crazier leaders, like Saddam. For instance, this guy was firing rockets according to his whims, attacking Iran, invading Kuwait. But in the end, he was a secularist, and removing him was America's biggest mistake. Of course, Israel benefited from it, but what did we gain? An unstable Middle East and hundreds of thousands of refugees. In short, removing a dictator or calling them a dictator is not the solution. Dictators are dictators. We should just laugh at their nonsense and leave their fate to their people. Either they'll be executed like Ceaușescu or die in their beds. I think that’s better than civil war. We Turks think like this. No one likes erdo, but to prevent our country from becoming like Syria, we are indifferent to what happens. Yesterday it was New Zealand, today Greece, tomorrow Israel. The guy is a machine for nonsense don't care him at all. For ex like the leader of the Netherlands, Wilders. He talks nonsense, but no one pays attention.
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 6,883
- Points
- 293
IDF says it killed five Hamas terrorists who led Mefalsim area massacres on Oct. 7
Overnight strike in Beit Lahiya targets site where several Hamas operatives were gathered; security forces say PIJ commander killed in separate strike in central Gaza;
www.timesofisrael.com
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 6,883
- Points
- 293
IDF uncovers trove of Hezbollah UAVs, missiles and weapons after IAF strikes in Lebanon
The IDF discovered several tunnels and weapons storage facilities while operating in southern Lebanon.
www.jpost.com
Similar threads
