Politics May, 2019. 41 killed after plane makes emergency landing at Russian airport

[TheKiwi]

RIP. Especially to the children that died.

 

[DasVivo]

firstly RIP pretty awful footage shows just how chaotic it must have been

a few questions

~snip~necessitating change of Flight Mode which may affect Aircraft and Flight Crew performance..

What does this mean exactly? and it's implications?

PRADA uber alles

JJ can you elaborate your pilot lingo for us? Cheers

I honestly don't know if an emergency was declared or not. I'd read the same thing that Grazhdanochka mentions above - that communications from the aircraft were down.

Wouldn't a plane have redundant systems for exactly this?

and yep plenty of details will come out with time just sucks for the families

 

[Junglejim]

For the Airbus there are 4 different laws:
- Normal Law: all protections are in place (stall, over speed, bank, high angle of attack etc.)
- Alternate Law: some protection are disabled due to down grade of systems capabilities, but you typically still have some auto thrust and autopilot capabilities.
- Direct Law: all protections are lost and no automation is available, you are basically hand flying the plane to land. (Cessna flying 101)
- Mechanical Back up: total loss of fly by wire capability and no more sidestick input. pitch is controlled by the pitch trim and turning and banking is done through the pedals...Landing is controlled by JESUS CHRIST. (Not meant to land this way but more to stabilize aircraft as the flight deck tries to restart the other systems.) Almost never happens due to multiple back up.

Now if that plane went to direct law, it would be a balls sweating landing, but nevertheless should have been very doable, hard as some people fail their Proficiency Check over this. With the exception of the direct law, most these failures are done on Training an Proficiency checks on the simulator. This is why I was thinking there was a failure in the hydraulics or a flaps and slats jam... those are the only things i have seen that would cause somebody to land at such a high speed... hydraulic failure would be because of the pilot putting in too much thrust, while for the slats/flaps jam it would be no choice an you come in fast an hard.

The pilot mentioned it was normal speed, which is suspect cause that plane ha enough energy to bounce pretty high.

As for PREA uber alles... more of a criticism of the people who went for their bags first rather than safety

 

[Gaz]

Wouldn't a plane have redundant systems for exactly this?

JJ is more the guy to ask this than me but I think an aircraft's transponder can be set to broadcast specific codes that mean a generic message, ie "My radio is out".

 

[downsizer]

JJ is more the guy to ask this than me but I think an aircraft's transponder can be set to broadcast specific codes that mean a generic message, ie "My radio is out".

Correct.

 

[Junglejim]

Transponder codes:
7700 for aircraft in distress
7600 for comms failure
7500 unlawful interference (Hijacking)

it is also listed on charts on what actions an aircraft would do to signify lost comms. Once lost comms procedure is established they ill communicate with you using a light gun (its like a gun but is a more directed light ) to tell you the status of the aerodrome and you are cleared to land.

lost comms is a bitch but shouldnt be a factor on what happened. This is why communication is only the third thing to do in Fly, Navigate and Communicate.

 

[Grazhdanochka]

firstly RIP pretty awful footage shows just how chaotic it must have been

a few questions

What does this mean exactly? and it's implications?

As Junglejim has explained, (I am no Pilot, I just hapen to be around them, best they answer Technical Questions)

Transponder codes:
7700 for aircraft in distress
7600 for comms failure
7500 unlawful interference (Hijacking)

it is also listed on charts on what actions an aircraft would do to signify lost comms. Once lost comms procedure is established they ill communicate with you using a light gun (its like a gun but is a more directed light ) to tell you the status of the aerodrome and you are cleared to land.

lost comms is a bitch but shouldnt be a factor on what happened. This is why communication is only the third thing to do in Fly, Navigate and Communicate.

Yes these exacts have been much mentioned since the earliest Reports, which People can find for themselfs and judge for themselfs. To your Statement I will add that these of itself things may not directly affect but again the presence of one or more smaller Issues can and has affect CRM before. (Which is FAR FAR from saying it has here)

In all the subject is tired and all one can do is wait for the Investigation. I did not know any of those directly involved and all I can add is what is current Speculation, wild Rumor or Commentary of which none interests me so highly nor do I want such a part of. Those involved are my Colleagues, Employer, and those whom daily many place trust in.

I can see that since more Video has emerged after the Incident, though in obvious shock I am quite admiring of Flight Attendant Kasatkina, and Senior Flight Attendant Fogel (Vogel) who continued to attend to the Passengers in poor state, even while not yet aware their Colleagues Situation.
For observers it is necessary to remember that breathing Smoke is quite disabling, the acrid smoke that comes from the Material in an Aircraft is even worse, at least one of the BPs involved despite walking away is on a Respirator still.. (as I am sure many others are)

Equally the ground Staff that assisted are deserving of praise, running that close to an Aircraft on fire is always a hazard even if Fire Crews are on site.

The only hope is for the fast recovery mental and very physical of those involved, I also worry for the outcome of this in other ways and some more tangible aspects it may result in.

I have already seen far to many serious Accusations go out, to People, and Bodies alike.. Some based in obvious lack of understanding such as that of Oxygen Masks, Evacuation Procedures, and Logistical Limitations.

For this Time I probably will leave this Subject alone unless is a official Statement or something I feel appropriate to share, DM is appropriate for any more pressing Questions, but I feel more just appropriate comments is only to crush obvious Errors.

Already seen one I know get attacked directly on their own Competency

 

[Gaz]

News story about the emergency crew's reaction -

Staff at a Moscow airport scrambled fire crews one minute after a malfunctioning passenger jet crash-landed on Sunday, raising questions among some senior Russian aviation industry figures about whether the staff acted quickly enough.
The speed of the response to the emergency, in which 41 people were killed in an intense blaze, has come into focus because the aircraft, which had signaled technical problems prior to landing, stood on the runway for just under two minutes before the first fire truck started tackling the flames.
Alexander Zhuravkov, head of the committee for emergency situations of Russian airport industry association "Aeroport," said fire crews arrived within the maximum time after the alert was raised, as set out in domestic regulations and international standards.
"The question, though, is why the alert was raised after the landing, and not before, in a timely fashion, since there was an expected landing underway of an aircraft with an emergency situation on board," Zhuravkov told Reuters.
According to a timeline of the incident released late on Tuesday by Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, staff on the ground knew minutes before the landing that the plane's main radio communication system and autopilot were knocked out.
According to flight-tracking service flightradar24.com, the plane had also issued a distress signal prior to landing denoting an emergency.
Under airport rules, those warnings do not automatically trigger mobilization of fire crews.

Full story here - https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019...ilized-a-minute-after-jet-crash-landed-a65532

 

[Grazhdanochka]

News story about the emergency crew's reaction -



Full story here - https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019...ilized-a-minute-after-jet-crash-landed-a65532

As I wrote, response is entirely based on when the Alarm is sounded... IF it is sounded.

The Fire Crew being scrambled late will also face realistic Issues that I posted to earlier (Not helped by Conditions at SVO)
I think this Incident will demand Heads Roll, I suspect the wrong ones... But that is just a Nameless Declaration of course

 

[Marsch]

If they managed to get there within two minutes after they were alarmed they actually deserve a medal.

 

[Gaz]

Video of the immediate aftermath has been released but it's obviously not nice viewing -

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Looks to me that from the aircraft coming to a rest to the first passenger coming down the slide is about 16 seconds which to me is amazing.

 

[Gaz]

And apologies if my bumping an old thread makes it look like there's just been another crash - would suggest any mods who see this add the date of the original accident to the thread title.

 

[MoorishMan]

Sad news. RIP

 

[Ivan le Fou]

Video of the immediate aftermath has been released but it's obviously not nice viewing -

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Looks to me that from the aircraft coming to a rest to the first passenger coming down the slide is about 16 seconds which to me is amazing.

These 16 seconds must have felt excruciatingly long.