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I am sure Ukrainian tiggling in their spine and below remembering their great victories at Ilovaisk and Debaltsevo
Photos Armenia v Azerbaijan
- Thread starter saiga
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I am sure Ukrainian tiggling in their spine and below remembering their great victories at Ilovaisk and Debaltsevo
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3) The West loses any influence in Southern Caucasus and discredits itself by taking no action.
Well whats there to gain? Except troubles? The involved parties are keen on stirring up troubles in many different places at once. Their economies look a bit worn out though. Wrong set of priorities in my book.
2. Armenian Air Defence failed big time, and heads should roll. In 1999, Serbia downed dozens of drones far more advanced than Baryaktar, with far inferior tools, while also being pounded by proper aviation, something the Azeris were mostly reluctant to commit. Also, I never once saw proper camouflage. Not so much as camo netting to protect artillery and AA units.
Shooting down a drone is not complicated. But this is not the issue. I think, to an extent, even Western militaries underestimate the drone threat. Even though the drones originate from here.
It is a change in warfare like so many happened in the past. And many military leaders or planners tend not to fully grasp changed scenarios and plan accordingly.
There are so many factors involved here. and most of them cost a lot of money.
1. Lack of layered integrated AD system. A few dispersed and on their own AD systems are worthless. Except for point defense , but even they need integration to be effective. Especially to create situational awareness.
2. Lack of electronic jamming and suppression capabilities. (Until the super smart KI drones appear making up a bit because of autonomous operation)
If the simple drones fly high they are easy targets - aagon only in integrated AD because otherwise they can sneak up on the single AD battery from any direction. But if teh drone flies through valleys it needs either a relay drone or satellite support. There ECM has to provide cover complicating the drones operation.
3. Lack of means to exploit current weak spots. E.g. limited range of drones and its weapon systems. In case of the TB2 this is around 8km for weapons and a few hundred km of penetration range into enemy territory.
4. Lack of means to launch counterattacks on drone operations. E.g. operation centrals, air fields and other infratstructure. This also involves a good intelligence and signals and electronic reconaissance.
5. Lack of modern and specialised equipment. E.g. high resolution 3D radars. Adequate means of countering individual threats. This could (Theoretically) even be a PC9 guided to the drone to shoot it down if no enemy fighters roam around. But mostly it would be to use the right tool for the right job. Meaning you must be able to deny the attacking weapon system area access by actively engaging it. No freedom of movement and operation. Thsi is the most complicated to achieve as the defender has to make sure to have a tightly secured air space with no holes. And even one cheap drone sneaking through can do a lot of damage.
6. Strategic errors, these points could have been accomplished also with few financial means. Using decoys, setting up traps for drones, strict concealment, dispersion, use of adequate shelters corresponding to threat, limiting mobility etc. etc.
Well whats there to gain? Except troubles? The involved parties are keen on stirring up troubles in many different places at once. Their economies look a bit worn out though. Wrong set of priorities in my book.
2. Armenian Air Defence failed big time, and heads should roll. In 1999, Serbia downed dozens of drones far more advanced than Baryaktar, with far inferior tools, while also being pounded by proper aviation, something the Azeris were mostly reluctant to commit. Also, I never once saw proper camouflage. Not so much as camo netting to protect artillery and AA units.
Shooting down a drone is not complicated. But this is not the issue. I think, to an extent, even Western militaries underestimate the drone threat. Even though the drones originate from here.
It is a change in warfare like so many happened in the past. And many military leaders or planners tend not to fully grasp changed scenarios and plan accordingly.
There are so many factors involved here. and most of them cost a lot of money.
1. Lack of layered integrated AD system. A few dispersed and on their own AD systems are worthless. Except for point defense , but even they need integration to be effective. Especially to create situational awareness.
2. Lack of electronic jamming and suppression capabilities. (Until the super smart KI drones appear making up a bit because of autonomous operation)
If the simple drones fly high they are easy targets - aagon only in integrated AD because otherwise they can sneak up on the single AD battery from any direction. But if teh drone flies through valleys it needs either a relay drone or satellite support. There ECM has to provide cover complicating the drones operation.
3. Lack of means to exploit current weak spots. E.g. limited range of drones and its weapon systems. In case of the TB2 this is around 8km for weapons and a few hundred km of penetration range into enemy territory.
4. Lack of means to launch counterattacks on drone operations. E.g. operation centrals, air fields and other infratstructure. This also involves a good intelligence and signals and electronic reconaissance.
5. Lack of modern and specialised equipment. E.g. high resolution 3D radars. Adequate means of countering individual threats. This could (Theoretically) even be a PC9 guided to the drone to shoot it down if no enemy fighters roam around. But mostly it would be to use the right tool for the right job. Meaning you must be able to deny the attacking weapon system area access by actively engaging it. No freedom of movement and operation. Thsi is the most complicated to achieve as the defender has to make sure to have a tightly secured air space with no holes. And even one cheap drone sneaking through can do a lot of damage.
6. Strategic errors, these points could have been accomplished also with few financial means. Using decoys, setting up traps for drones, strict concealment, dispersion, use of adequate shelters corresponding to threat, limiting mobility etc. etc.
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Brutal. Looks like an almost exact emulation of that one Armenian ambush that killed over 38 or smth Azeris.
This is why I have trouble with the overinflated claims. If this was the 1992 conflict I would prob believe them, but this time the opponents seemed evenly matched in infantry / special operations warfare.
There is also footage of both sides ambushing convoys. I personaly have an issue with posting graphic stuff, but here is a non-graphic example from a few pages back.
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At first I thought it was a pantsir, but yeah... that's a Tor.
Weird looking vehicle... as if they just had removed the chassis' tracks and then dropped the whole thing at the back of a truck.
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Nice so they can never say Azerbaijanis steal our homes now like they stole azerbaijani houses in 90s... Good, good more good news here = Turkey gonna lift embargo on Armenia.
Nobody cared about the embargo since 90s anyway If they needs job they came to Turkey whatever there is already 90.000 Armenian Immigrants now + 200.000 Turkish Armenians live with the barbarian and murderous Turks(!), already they come to Turkey in the last quarter century.So they don't hesitate to come back if they want anyway. Of course, unfortunately, we are so murderous accepting 90.000 Armenian immigrants while Armenians banished nearly 1 million Azerbaijani Turks from their homes ahh we Turks we are so wild(!)... What has changed now instead of making deals with Turks, they lost their homes & their so called republic to the Russian boots.. Eternal hostility blinds them, If you constantly say that you massacred by Turks, you say you get genocided, and you go to war with your neighbours Azerbaijanis that you have lived in peace for 70 years in soviet era btw you got free soviet oil from baku free agriculture / food stuuf and yet drive your neighbours out of their house with remnants of the former Soviet army & after 30 years you will not gonna invest in weapons for your magnificent army & didn't care about how you got landlocked by doing so they didn't realize they were digging their own graves & ruining their economy..
They prepared their own ending by underestimating Azeris and trusting in Russia. In 2018 they chose Pashinyan, the guy who promise to break Russian protectorates & allyning with West he do some civil coup & first thing he do bringing down the Russian puppet leader of Armenia '' Serzh Sargsyan '' former president of Armenia the guy was from Nagorno Karabakh and ruling Armenia
Can you imagine Pashinyan toke power from the guy who is from the war region. Who was in charge of Azerbaijan? Aliyevs? Who were aliyevs? in 93 after war pro Turkish leader of Azerbaijan Elçibey downed by Aliyev family.. Heydar Aliyev toke control after war and hes son still rules the country but who were they? Aliyev was Deputy Premier of the Soviet Union one of the The most important man of KGB Putin's colleague.. Let everyone think that the Russians were on the side of the Armenians in this war. I'm just laughing at this Azeris played very smart they toke Turkey & Russia by their sides. Otherwise, the Russian bear wouldn't have stayed silent on such a thing for a month and a half.
Lastly the guy on the video He burned down the house he settle over the land he occupied, hmm, is this the house he stole 30 years ago? I wonder who was the about the owner of this house 30 years ago? I wish we could get it from the Ministry of Population in the soviet archives..
I can give an example of what this man did; For example Turkish invasion of Cyprus okey we took more part than its necessary its fact.. Imagine a Turkish Cypriot settles border area & in 30 years he builds/seize a house from Greek Cypriot.. So later imagine Greeks toke the part back 30 years later. So my question is : Is it a tragedy for this man who burns hes home located in invaded area or burning abandoned house that owned by someone else?
We sayin Turkish ''what goes around comes around''
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While some of your comments make sense, the other ones don't at all.Nice so they can never say Azerbaijanis steal our homes now like they stole azerbaijani houses in 90s... Good, good more good news here = Turkey gonna lift embargo on Armenia.
What has changed now instead of making deals with Turks, they lost their homes & their so called republic to the Russian boots.. Eternal hostility blinds them, If you constantly say that you massacred by Turks, you say you get genocided, and you go to war with your neighbours Azerbaijanis that you have lived in peace for 70 years in soviet era btw you got free soviet oil from baku free agriculture / food stuuf and yet drive your neighbours out of their house with remnants of the former Soviet army & after 30 years you will not gonna invest in weapons for your magnificent army & didn't care about how you got landlocked by doing so they didn't realize they were digging their own graves & ruining their economy..
They prepared their own ending by underestimating Azeris and trusting in Russia. In 2018 they chose Pashinyan, the guy who promise to break Russian protectorates & allyning with West he do some civil coup & first thing he do bringing down the Russian puppet leader of Armenia '' Serzh Sargsyan '' former president of Armenia the guy was from Nagorno Karabakh and ruling Armenia
Let everyone think that the Russians were on the side of the Armenians in this war. I'm just laughing at this Azeris played very smart they toke Turkey & Russia by their sides. Otherwise, the Russian bear wouldn't have stayed silent on such a thing for a month and a half.
Lastly the guy on the video He burned down the house he settle over the land he occupied, hmm, is this the house he stole 30 years ago? I wonder who was the about the owner of this house 30 years ago? I wish we could get it from the Ministry of Population in the soviet archives..
I can give an example of what this man did; For example Turkish invasion of Cyprus okey we took more part than its necessary its fact.. Imagine a Turkish Cypriot settles border area & in 30 years he builds/seize a house from Greek Cypriot.. So later imagine Greeks toke the part back 30 years later. So my question is : Is it a tragedy for this man who burns hes home located in invaded area or burning abandoned house that owned by someone else?
We sayin Turkish ''what goes around comes around''
Where did you get your figure of "Armenians banished nearly 1 million Azerbaijani Turks from their homes" from?
In Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azerbaijani population numbered 40,688 people at its peak in 1989 and this trend was growing:
Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia
How was it possible to expel 1mln Azerbaijanis from N-K then?
What is your proof for the house that is going to be burned down having an Azeri owner previously?
Click this link again:
Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia
The same website will tell you that it was just 10.06% in 1926 when the first census was published.
How about turning the tables now?
You should read up about the probability theory if maths is not your strong point.
Probability theory - Wikipedia
Don't delude yourself about monsieur Putain's friendships.
He was trained in a professional way to be a liar and a murderer. Such people don't have friends. He has just long-term strategic goals and is able to sacrifice much in order to achieve them. It's like sacrificing a Rook in order to win a chess game.
Do you think Putin likes Lukashenko if the latter has a long history of embarrassing him and pissing him off?
No, he is just interested in Belarus being taken over by Russia.
Likewise, he is interested in driving Turkey out of the NATO, selling some military equipment, and making it dependent on Russian resources and money:
Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia
That's why, unlike Trump, he uses his KGB-style diplomacy against the sultan behind the closed doors. He never offends him or calls him a stupid person. He's flexible and understanding. If the sultan wants to grab some land, he's OK with that, as long as it's not a Russian land, as he knows sultan's behaviour will damage Turkish-EU relationships. That's more important for monsieur Putain comparing to harming an ally who has no friends in the region apart from the official "alliance" with Russia. If Armenia tries to break its ties with Russia, Putin will tell an Armenian PM that he does not mind Siunik being taken over by Azerbaijan with Turkey's help, so giving Russia some sh1t is not "advisable".
Syunik Province - Wikipedia
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Whatever he says, it looks like murdering prisoners of war. They lay in clusters, there's no big space between any of them and some of them don't have their jackets on. The temperature there is just slightly above zero C degrees, so don't take walking bare-chested as a viable option.
Compare the number of dead bodies to the number of the assault rifles lying next to them.
If you want to pretend to record an ambush, do it well and don't expect the people who would be watching it to be idiots.
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Russian peacekeeprs in Karabakh.
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While some of your comments make sense, the other ones don't at all.
Where did you get your figure of "Armenians banished nearly 1 million Azerbaijani Turks from their homes" from?
In Nagorno-Karabakh, the Azerbaijani population numbered 40,688 people at its peak in 1989 and this trend was growing:
Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
How was it possible to expel 1mln Azerbaijanis from N-K then?
What is your proof for the house that is going to be burned down having an Azeri owner previously?
Click this link again:
and realise that the Azerbaijani population made up 21.52% of N-K in 1989.Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast - Wikipedia
The same website will tell you that it was just 10.06% in 1926 when the first census was published.
How about turning the tables now?
You should read up about the probability theory if maths is not your strong point.
As for me, the probability is 78.48% that the previous owner of the house was NOT an ethnic Azeri.Probability theory - Wikipedia
Don't delude yourself about monsieur Putain's friendships.
He was trained in a professional way to be a liar and a murderer. Such people don't have friends. He has just long-term strategic goals and is able to sacrifice much in order to achieve them. It's like sacrificing a Rook in order to win a chess game.
Do you think Putin likes Lukashenko if the latter has a long history of embarrassing him and pissing him off?
No, he is just interested in Belarus being taken over by Russia.
Likewise, he is interested in driving Turkey out of the NATO, selling some military equipment, and making it dependent on Russian resources and money:
Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia
That's why, unlike Trump, he uses his KGB-style diplomacy against the sultan behind the closed doors. He never offends him or calls him a stupid person. He's flexible and understanding. If the sultan wants to grab some land, he's OK with that, as long as it's not a Russian land, as he knows sultan's behaviour will damage Turkish-EU relationships. That's more important for monsieur Putain comparing to harming an ally who has no friends in the region apart from the official "alliance" with Russia. If Armenia tries to break its ties with Russia, Putin will tell an Armenian PM that he does not mind Siunik being taken over by Azerbaijan with Turkey's help, so giving Russia some sh1t is not "advisable".
Syunik Province - Wikipedia
- 724,000 Azerbaijanis[45] displaced from Armenia, Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding areas officaly*
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Well Ukrainian-Turkish defence industry is booming
Ukrainian-Turkish SERDAR Anti-Tank Missile Launching & Remote MG
Also Ukraine is interested in UKAP unmanned vehicle with remote MG
Turkey signs deal with Ukraine for Altay engine also (altay turkish MBT)
Ukrainian Bayraktar operator
Ukrainian and Turkish Navies cooperate
In oktober A Turkish aerospace industries (TAI) official said Ukraine was offering Turkey the opportunity to assess co-production possibilities for Antonov’s cargo aircraft, the AN-178. “We are discussing co-production opportunities … in Ukraine or in Turkey,” the official said..
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The voice of Karabakh war song
Azerbaijan defense ministry video
Translation
You, the son of Turk, behold! They call for you, wait for you,rely on you
Rise & speak for all of them, do not leave Karabakh in the lurch!
Azerbaijan defense ministry video
Translation
You, the son of Turk, behold! They call for you, wait for you,rely on you
Rise & speak for all of them, do not leave Karabakh in the lurch!
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