In that case you need ''Khat''
I’m in Hull right now and I was talking with refugees from Ethiopia who came to the UK about 10 years ago. Surprisingly, they offered me some khat, telling me it boosts your memory and concentration. They said my girlfriend should take it before an important exam :)
 
Speaking of Artsakh, how many men can a semi-state of 150,000 people have? 70,000 or less? How many of them could be children and elderly who could not fight? 25-30,000? It gives you 40-45,000 men who were capable of fighting. If you bear in mind the Artsakh Army numbered 20,000 soldiers, they put a massive effort in defending their country and did everything they could to do it.
True. A more than valiant fight, one that should be remembered as such by the Armenians, as well as their enemies.

As I said above, the ceasefire was forced upon Armenia and Azerbaijan by Russia and Turkey. Giving Azerbaijan access to Nakhchevan is an outright betrayal of Armenia by Russia. The things did not have to go THAT far.
Again, true. Appeasing the Turks by giving them access to the Caspian Sea was neither necessary, nor smart, and is a right kick to the balls to their Armenian allies. One that shall be remembered, I'm sure.

In that case you need ''Khat''
Yes, and a pair of stylish slippers and a penchant for opening up Abramses like a can of beef.
 
I’m in Hull right now and I was talking with refugees from Ethiopia who came to the UK about 10 years ago. Surprisingly, they offered me some khat, telling me it boosts your memory and concentration. They said my girlfriend should take it before an important exam :)
Given that we are most likely talking about the University of Hull, I'm guessing that your beloved is, at the very least, the Dean right about now.
 
yes,madagascar had muslim 7%,empire ottoman turk can claim new land!



(Y)


Madagascar+2.jpg
 
I’m in Hull right now and I was talking with refugees from Ethiopia who came to the UK about 10 years ago. Surprisingly, they offered me some khat, telling me it boosts your memory and concentration. They said my girlfriend should take it before an important exam :)

The Somali pirates who consumed it, were taking fire with no worries and concern for cover, keep the girl off this s...t.:)
 
No one is particularly surprised, it's just the constant denying by the Azerbaijani government that is annoying.


Greeks were in Bosnia, not Kosovo. And they were not mercenaries, as they weren't getting paid, whereas the Toyota crew from Idlib is getting 2,000 dollars a month, according to whistle blowers in their ranks.


Again, widely known, and annoyingly denied by Turks and Azeris.


That would not be smart, though I wouldn't put it past Erdogan and Alyiev.


If I'm getting what you're saying correctly, you're expecting an Azeri insurgency in Iran with covert and overt support from Azerbaijan and Turkey? That would end badly for the Iranian Azeri community (who are, from what I understand, mostly loyal Iranian citizens) and for Azerbaijan itself, if it got involved directly.
You never know if uncle Sam gets in even peaceful Yugoslavia turns into hell. Main threat is Iran with nukes either US, nato,israel or turkics would never let it happen. Biden will put pressure on Iran next coming months. Now that the Karabakh problem is solved, Southern Azerbaijan will get warmer in the next 10 years. by the way, azeri iranians are not loyal there is execution penalty if you been rebellious, i wonder Turkish bayraktars murican MQ9s and Israeli kamikaze drones will do in future.
 
From what little I could figure out from videos and written reports, I can extrapolate the following with relative certainty:

1. Armenians prepared for a piecemeal positional defence in the mountains and hills. They expected small-scale attacks followed by small-scale counter-attacks to retrieve lost ground. It worked in the North, but in the South, the Azeris managed a breakthrough and massed their forces, relatively safe from artillery bombardment, as Armenian artillery was constantly destroyed by drone warfare.

2. Armenian Air Defence failed big time, and heads should roll. In 1999, Serbia downed dozens of drones far more advanced than Baryaktar, with far inferior tools, while also being pounded by proper aviation, something the Azeris were mostly reluctant to commit. Also, I never once saw proper camouflage. Not so much as camo netting to protect artillery and AA units.

3. While undoubtedly brave to the point of lunacy (the phrase 'heroes fight like Armenians' is not that big of a stretch), for every video I saw where the Armenians were operating calmly under artillery fire, returning fire and passing ammunition, I saw two where they were shooting inshallah style and running about like headless chicken. And it's not like they're the FSA, they know better. It was a failure of discipline and their junior officers and sergeants.

4. No foxholes or block-posts, only big, F***-off trenches made by bulldozers, and very few reserve positions.

5. They underestimated their enemy, big-time. When visiting certain English-language Armenian forums, there is a lot of hubris to be had. Phrases such as 'azeribaboons' and discussions about how they should take back Nakhchevan all the way back in 2016, along with a prevalent attitude of Azeris being cowards are painful to read. Now, that could have been the infamous ballsiness of the diaspora, also very prevalent in the Balkans, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they were common views among the populace, and worse, the military.

6. As others already noted, Armenia did not commit fully. Maybe they thought it wasn't necessary, maybe they thought Turkey would attack Armenia proper, I don't know. But it should have been evident that the Artsakh Defence Army, even if reinforced, cannot deal against what was attacking it.

7. While I doubt the Azeris will ever release the full list of their causalities, I expect them to be at least twice as high as those of the Armenians. They absorbed them and kept pushing, however, something they weren't able to do before.

8. Wherever there were breakthroughs, we saw Azeri T-90s, Matadors, brand new Turkish body armour, and Special Forces. The Romanian AK-wielding conscripts with steel helmets were mostly filmed a bit further back, being ferried by trucks. That leads me to believe that the Azeris adopted the Croat-style strategy of "fix the enemy in place with conscripts and reservists, find a weak spot, pour in elite units). That only works with ample numerical superiority though, something they achieved due to the non-commitment of Armenia.

To summarize, the Armenians are not invincible mountain warriors, Azeris are not incompetent cowards, high-tech warfare does not mean that bloody infantry slogs are not on the menu anymore, and some nations just can't get a break. May God rest the souls of the dead on both sides, especially the ungodly number of 20 and 19 year-olds, and may their uniform-wearing, fist-waving politicians rot in Hell.

A couple points I disagree with but you def nailed the the hubris part. Armenians, at least on forums and social media did always underestimate the Azeris, even though it was no secret how dramaticaly they had improved their war fighting capabilities especialy over the recent years. Azerbaijan bought all the necessary equipment specificaly to counter the Armenian advantige in terrain and fortifications. Armenian troops were targeted everywhere. In the open, ravines, trenches and earth bunkers, and the precision of those strikes, and dedication to decimate manpower in the later stages, was outright disgusting.

I doubt the Azeris suffered twice as many casaulties. They took heavy losses particulariy as a result of some virtualy text-book executed ambushes. But going by all the footage, not just drone strikes, they handed out in at least equal measure and were also able to carry out successful ambushes. I think the Russian claim of both suffering over 2k killed on 22 October was the most realistic figure of the war, and that ~1:1 ratio prob continued till the conclusion.

Well the loss of 25 drones on the Azeri side through various means, was confirmed by photo & videographic evidence. ( https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html ) For all we know it could be more. Russia claimed it downed a total of 9 TB2s over Gjumri, yet we only saw the wreckage of 2. But yeah, lousy job with the concealement. Early Azeri SEAD caught them with their pants down, and if I'm not mistaken, the Artsakh troops didn't really have that much to begin with.

Both will prob draw lessons from this fight and now re-arm & re-train accordingly.
 
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I’m in Hull right now and I was talking with refugees from Ethiopia who came to the UK about 10 years ago. Surprisingly, they offered me some khat, telling me it boosts your memory and concentration. They said my girlfriend should take it before an important exam :)
I told you not to go to Hull :rolleyes: ???
 
You never know if uncle Sam gets in even peaceful Yugoslavia turns into hell. Main threat is Iran with nukes either US, nato,israel or turkics would never let it happen. Biden will put pressure on Iran next coming months. Now that the Karabakh problem is solved, Southern Azerbaijan will get warmer in the next 10 years. by the way, azeri iranians are not loyal there is execution penalty if you been rebellious, i wonder Turkish bayraktars murican MQ9s and Israeli kamikaze drones will do in future.

Deluded pan-Turks never fail to amaze me. Ganged up on a isolated and poorly-prepared Armenia and suddenly they are all high on offensive schemes. Iran is not Armenia, and the tactics used by AZ/TR against Yerevan will prove absolutely inept against a much stronger actor like Iran. Besides, Iran has enough kamikaze drones (remember the attack on those Saudi oil facilities?), ballistic- and cruise missiles - amongst other things - at its disposal to completely paralyse critical Turkish infrastructure, let alone that of a country like Azerbaijan. Perhaps you should worry about the Kurdish insurrection inside your country, which Iran could easily inflame if push come to shove, before engaging in fanboyistic fantasies that sound good from your mom's basement but runs against geopolitical- and military reality.

Iranian Azerbaijanis are loyal to the nation - Iran's own Supreme Leader and Defense Minister are of Azerbaijani origins. Don't ever delude yourself of partitioning parts of Iran. The security apparatus is way too competent; strong national sentiments are present among most demographic groups and Tehran has enough tools at its disposal to directly bring the fight to its adversaries if necessary.

By the way, Biden is not going to put pressure on Iran. On the contrary; he has already signalled his desire to return to the JCPOA.
 
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You never know if uncle Sam gets in even peaceful Yugoslavia turns into hell.
There's a quote from the film called "Pretty Village, Pretty Flame", and it goes something like this:

"Everything was fine while the limping Croat lined your pockets with US Dollars. For 50 years, you drove nice cars, screwed pretty girls, but now that you can't get it up no more, you're like "let's settle some old scores." Which is fine, but why didn't you settle them earlier?"

Yeah, the Yanks helped us along, as did the Germans, but it's not like we were not itching to get at each others' throats.

Applicable to the Armenian-Azeri conflict, I'm sure, at least to an extent.

Main threat is Iran with nukes either US, nato,israel or turkics would never let it happen. Biden will put pressure on Iran next coming months. Now that the Karabakh problem is solved, Southern Azerbaijan will get warmer in the next 10 years. by the way, azeri iranians are not loyal there is execution penalty if you been rebellious, i wonder Turkish bayraktars murican MQ9s and Israeli kamikaze drones will do in future.
Again, it would be a grievous mistake to mess with Iran. Mardonius pretty much summarized why. I would just add that it is a civilization that has been dealing with internal strife and external enemies for millennia. The Greek phalanx and the Roman legion couldn't keep it down for long, what chance do Turkish drones have?

Armenian troops were targeted everywhere. In the open, ravines, trenches and earth bunkers, and the precision of those strikes, and dedication to decimate manpower in the later stages, was outright disgusting.
It was genuinely the most disturbing war footage I've ever seen, yes.

I doubt the Azeris suffered twice as many casaulties. They took heavy losses particulariy as a result of some virtualy text-book executed ambushes. But going by all the footage, not just drone strikes, they handed out in at least equal measure and were also able to carry out successful ambushes. I think the Russian claim of both suffering over 2k killed on 22 October was the most realistic figure of the war, and that ~1:1 ratio prob continued till the conclusion.
You could be right. I never saw Azeri ambush videos, but saw plenty of Armenian ones. I could have a skewed picture in that regard.

Well the loss of 25 drones on the Azeri side through various means, was confirmed by photo & videographic evidence. ( https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2020/09/the-fight-for-nagorno-karabakh.html ) For all we know it could be more. Russia claimed it downed a total of 9 TB2s over Gjumri, yet we only saw the wreckage of 2. But yeah, lousy job with the concealement.
Yeah, but according to the link you provided (thanks, by the way), a full third of them are suicide drones, with only two being Baryaktar.

Early Azeri SEAD caught them with their pants down, and if I'm not mistaken, the Artsakh troops didn't really have that much to begin with.
I dunno, from what I've read the Armenian militaries had a pretty decent Air Defence network by any standard, designed to fight the Turkish, rather than the Azeri Air Force.

Both will prob draw lessons from this fight and now re-arm & re-train accordingly.
I would disagree. I think that fighting in the South Caucasus is done for the foreseeable future. It's downscaling and professionalization from here on out, Georgia-style. Pax Rusiana, shall we say.
 
Again, true. Appeasing the Turks by giving them access to the Caspian Sea was neither necessary, nor smart, and is a right kick to the balls to their Armenian allies. One that shall be remembered, I'm sure.
There's one particular detail that makes this case even more strange. Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, has an Armenian father. He adopted his Russian mother's maiden name.
While negotiating with Armenians and Azeris, he spoke Armenian to the former, instead of Russian, pissing the latter off unspeakably, as they could not understand any sh1t. Lavrov holds several high Armenian decorations as well.
Russia's policy is stable and predictable: no matter if you are an ally or a neutral state, the Russians make you dependent on them, so they can blackmail you and influence your internal politics. If the things don't go their way, they just stir up some sh1t in your country, supporting a separatist movement and creating some dependent "people's republic", so you won't be able to join the NATO having disputed borders.

As I have said before, neither Armenia nor Azerbaijan had any say, while signing the ceasefire. The Azeris were so much unprepared for that, they shot down a Russian gunship that was "not supposed" to be in that particular area. So were the Armenians who were holding out quite well in the previous seven days. The Prime Minister was blamed for the "treason", while he had no say, signing the ceasefire that was prepared in Moscow (remember the previous ceasefire with no time zone, while the last one clearly mentioned Moscow Time). Armenian soldiers and officers were so shocked, so they were leaving the frontline, driving to Yerevan in order to stir up some sh1t against Pashinyan. The guy was as intimidated by Russia and Turkey as the Czechoslovak representatives who were forced to accept the Munich Agreement.
 
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I dunno, from what I've read the Armenian militaries had a pretty decent Air Defence network by any standard, designed to fight the Turkish, rather than the Azeri Air Force.

The Armenian military for sure. But I don't think the forces deployed in Artsakh were remotely enough to counter SEAD, and Azeris were fully committed to that from the start. I still think what happened in the first few weeks was decicive for the rest of the war.

I would disagree. I think that fighting in the South Caucasus is done for the foreseeable future. It's downscaling and professionalization from here on out

I don't see where we disagree here. That's my point. The Armenians in particular have learned some very painful lessons in this war and will ( at least that's what I expect ) try remedy shortcomings in early warning, electronic warfare, air defence etc and adapt their defensive strategy accordingly. Both know the value of drones now and will probably invest a lot more in their R&D and purchase. Yes, I agree, that Armenia probably will, and imo also should scale down the size of their military in order to elevate it's overall quality and professionalism. I also see lot more arms deals in future, but maybe I'm proven wrong. Let's see how things develop.

I never saw Azeri ambush videos
I think there are some on that nasty "kaotic" site that was posted here a few pages ago.
 
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Azerbaijan won the war with Turkish support first I have to express that people keep repeating 2 things first, the Syrian militants issue.. Why are you guys surprised that there are mercenaries? For ex in Serbian Kosovan war there were hundres of Greek mercenaries & Greek intelligence officers on serbian side while NATO organizing an operation against them. Mercenaries participate in every war and nobody admits that there are mercenary organizations in their sides. Turkey training Syrian FSA & Turkmens almost a decade now. Surely we use them in Libya or in Azerbaijani war. We provide Azeris with AWACS, satellite images, drones air operations only it was a min support.
I'm the last non-Turkish member to be surprised. I fully understand you and I don't have any reason to blame you for that.
The only thing I am surprised at is your sultan's denial mode that is nowhere as honest as you are and his tactics is totally un-Ottoman at the same time ;)

Your politicians have just learned too many lessons from the Russians and adopted their tactics instead of behaving like self-respecting Turks used to in the past.
 
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If you are incapable of understanding the whole picture, I'll gladly help you.
This war can be considered an Azeri tactical victory at best, but it's not a strategic victory by any means.
Both Armenia and Azerbaijan lost it, while the true winners are Russia and Turkey.
Artsakh has a population of 150,000 people, including 55,000 who live in Stepanakert. It's the biggest city, the next is Shusha with a population of 24-25,000, while there are not any other towns which population exceeds 5000. The Azeris were bragging about taking "strategic towns and cities", that were known as such purely for sh1ts and giggles, while these "towns'" and "cities'" population was 2000-4000 people.
The Azeris either were granted or took the buffer zone which was not part of N-K, while their progress or the concessions in N-K itself was very small.
The vast majority of its territory will be administered by Russia which is a big fail on the Azeri side. Russia can keep it for the next 100 or 300 years, because why not? Such a scenario will make Russia influence internal politics both in Armenia and Azerbaijan, playing the game that suits Russia.
The perspective of getting the whole of N-K cannot be any further right now. Azerbaijan has lost its war at the strategic level, as it won't be able to take the core of the N-K, by rebuilding its army and starting hostilities every 3-5 years. This time, it would have to deal with Russia in order to take something more, so it's not going to happen.

Speaking of Artsakh, how many men can a semi-state of 150,000 people have? 70,000 or less? How many of them could be children and elderly who could not fight? 25-30,000? It gives you 40-45,000 men who were capable of fighting. If you bear in mind the Artsakh Army numbered 20,000 soldiers, they put a massive effort in defending their country and did everything they could to do it.

As some of you correctly presumed, Armenia was afraid of getting more involved due to a possible attack from the Turkish territory. For the same reason, Ukrainians were very slow with getting their sh1t together in 2014 when they tried deploying the police and and Interior Ministry units against pro-Russian separatists in Donbas. They thought that having been too harsh would have prompted a Russian intervention. When they finally decided to involve the army, it was too late.

As I said above, the ceasefire was forced upon Armenia and Azerbaijan by Russia and Turkey. Giving Azerbaijan access to Nakhchevan is an outright betrayal of Armenia by Russia. The things did not have to go THAT far.
Justify all u want Musashi.. the outcome is clear ..Azerbaijan Victorious!!! Armenia Loser!!!
 
The caption reads: "A group of Armenian terrorists destroyed by our army on the M12 road at the entrance to Shusha, Lachin and Khankendi."
 
The caption reads: "A group of Armenian terrorists destroyed by our army on the M12 road at the entrance to Shusha, Lachin and Khankendi."
View attachment 259115
Okey correct translation
He says : 1:34 Those corpses are located in M13 road reinforcement from Stepenkart/Khankendi This is a extreem pitiful situation, those men die here cuz they sended to death by corrupt politicians, they tried to attack or sended to attack a well-defended city on foot without their notice they were shoted now they lay on this road. The reason they face those horrible ending cuz of greedy politicians & they always underestimate us. They didn't realize we said we took over a city. Pashinyan government prolonged the war and let these young people killed for nothing. The result seems clear as you can see thanks to god we have finally triumphed.We reunited with our beloved Shusha. Congratulations to all Azerbaijan our martyrs will never be forgotten.

'' A group of Armenian terrorists destroyed by our army '' There is no such statement, also the title is absurd, the army of a country cannot be a terrorist.
 
I bet Ukrainian tiggling in their spine see how successful Azerbaijan against Armenia that backed by Russian using turkish drones.. Ukrainian has some amount of TB2 turkish drone.. an operation against russian separatist in donestk and other occupied territory really make difference.. i bet this motivated Ukrainian to plan for recapture of their occupied terrritory from russian backed force..
 
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